Border

[Kennedy 0]

So who doesn't think there's a problem with border security?
Illegal alien rape suspect has been deported nine times

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I recently reported on the arrest of Mexican national Jose Lopez Madrigal in Edmonds, Washington for rape. Early reports indicated that he had been previously deported four times.

However, through confidential law enforcement sources and government documents, the investigative news team at KING 5 in Seattle has discovered that Madrigal has actually been deported back to Mexico a total of nine times.

On the evening of May 16, a police officer responding to a woman’s cries for help, caught Madrigal, 46, on top of a woman, raping her. Madrigal had forced the woman into the bushes behind a Safeway in Edmonds, Washington.
snip

disclaimer: No, I don't want to close the border or deport everyone who doesn't look like me, but this country needs to secure the border so it can control who and what comes across.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,107]

>So who doesn't think there's a problem with border security?

Sounds like deportation sure doesn't work.

[normiss 891]

Sounds like the 3 strikes rule should come into play for this "gentleman".

[quade 4]

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So who doesn't think there's a problem with border security?

Almost nobody. The issue is, how do you actually fix it?

A "Great Wall" isn't the answer. Something like that works on a small scale, but doesn't work with the length we're talking about on our border.

Berlin - sort of.
China - nope.

In fact, that's exactly why the Great Wall of China is so freekin' long and convoluted; people kept going around it. Then as China extended the ends, people would breech the middle and more parts would need to be built.

To properly "man" the border and completely shut down illegals, you'd be looking at something like the DMZ between North and South Korea, only again, it doesn't scale length-wise very well to the size we'd need between the US and Mexico.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

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>So who doesn't think there's a problem with border security?

Sounds like deportation sure doesn't work.

Deportation works fine. It takes a person from location A inside the US and moves them to location B which is outside the US. Deportation performs as advertised. What it doesn't do is keep them out. I don't know anyone who thinks moving an illegal back to where they crossed from the first time is going to keep them from doing it again.

The problem is that the border is not secure.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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So who doesn't think there's a problem with border security?

Almost nobody. The issue is, how do you actually fix it?

A "Great Wall" isn't the answer.

The nice things is that we are not Ancient China and we don't have any Mongol hordes raiding, pillaging, and burning our cities (despite what some would say).

Technology has come a long way in the last two or three thousand years. I think there are several ways to secure the border AT the border. Issues of why folks choose to cross illegally we already pretty much agree on and can be discussed later (going after employers, addressing drug laws/drug war).

First, CBP already knows how to patrol the great empty open spaces between heavy crossing areas. What they need are more officers, more trucks, and more tools. I'm glad that the feds have sent unmanned drones to assist in detection and deterrence of illegal crossing. I would also suggest more impressive tech at the high volume port of entry.

Have you been to the Statue of Liberty or any other high value target recently? They have better security than airports. I'm not asking for an XRay and full cavity search of every truck and trucker crossing, but more than the dog and pony show that goes on now would be nice.

I would also task navy elements to assist the Coast Guard, or increase CG budget at the cost of USN, so that the Gulf of Mexico, southeastern US coast, and southern California coast, and yes Falcon Lake and Amistad, receive better coverage.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,107]

>I don't know anyone who thinks moving an illegal back to where they
>crossed from the first time is going to keep them from doing it again.

That's what I mean; deportation doesn't work well as a method of preventing someone from committing crimes.

How about just putting them in jail for the crimes they commit? Might work a little better.

[quade 4]

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Have you been to the Statue of Liberty or any other high value target recently? They have better security than airports.

And I maintain it's impractical to scale that up. Which is one of the reasons we haven't done it.

Scale; the reason why a squirrel can fly and land its "wingsuit" and man never will.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Repeat male sexual predators should be chemically castrated.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 3,107]

>Have you been to the Statue of Liberty or any other high value
>target recently? They have better security than airports.

Agreed. We've spent around $31 million for security for that. The base is 65 feet square; the entire enclosed area is about 250 by 250 feet. The entire island is only about 1000 by 500 feet and no one needs to get there to see their family, get a job, escape crime or find ripe pickings for crimes.

But let's assume that the same level of security we have for the statue itself is sufficient to keep out much more motivated people who want to enter the US. That would cost $1.21 trillion assuming everything scales. (That doesn't include the recurring costs, of course.)

That's the main problem. Yes, there are high tech methods available, and we can build lots of walls. But even the millions we spend on the Tiuana double/triple walls are insufficient to keep determined people out; we'd have to spend a lot more to ensure good security.

And maybe we do have to spend that much - but generally we have more important things to spend money on.

[skyrider 0]

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>I don't know anyone who thinks moving an illegal back to where they
>crossed from the first time is going to keep them from doing it again.

That's what I mean; deportation doesn't work well as a method of preventing someone from committing crimes.

How about just putting them in jail for the crimes they commit? Might work a little better.

And crossing teh border Illegally needs to be treated as a crime, with Jail time involved, not just sit and watch TV jail time either, let them work for their upkeep, much like Sherrif Apreloe(?) is doing in his prisons in Arizona!

[billvon 3,107]

>And crossing teh border Illegally needs to be treated as a crime

It is:

=========
Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code, "Improper entry of alien", provides for a fine, imprisonment, or both for any immigrant who:

1. enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
2. eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
3. attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact.

The maximum prison term is 6 months for the first offense and 2 years for any subsequent offense.
======

[Kennedy 0]

The problem is that unless they are picked up by CBP while crossing, no one is ever charged with that. It'd never stand up in federal court. That's why ICE uses the civil side to begin civil proceedings, rather than criminal charges.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that we should treat a patch of dirt along the New Mexico border like Lady Liberty. But I do think the points of entry El Paso, Del Rio, Eagle Pass, Laredo, Douglas, Nogales, Tijuana, Mexicali, San Luis, and all the others, should have more manpower, better equipment, and better support. Like I said, I don't expect an XRay and cavity serach on every truck and trucker, but if you've ever gone through a port of entry, you know it's a dog and pony show. It's there for appearances.

Also, those big empty patches of dirt do need more attention, just not airport type attention. That's where UAVs and unmanned sentry posts would shine. Add all that increased scrutiny to a real overhaul that targeted employers, mitigated the drug problem, and provided adequate legal immigration, and by george we might actually have a real border again.

The fact is Mexico has become the terrible 'hood just down the street from your pleasant suburban domain. Just mixing things up is going to bring down the quality of the better area, and do nothing to improve the ghetto. Unfortunately we can't fix Mexico for them, they need to do it themselves. However, since this isn't neighborhoods but countries, we can insulate ourselves from the danger if we clean up our house and control movement from theirs.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[shward 0]

I'm all for helping out with the border security, but exactly what Navy elements would you have assist? Most ships are already spending 8-9 months out of the year at sea. You've got to allow some time to repair/upkeep the ships. What mission should we pull units away from in order to patrol costal waters?

Life is short, eat more bacon, have more sex and jump anytime you can!!

[skipbelt 0]

i disagree with both assertions , the 1st is a talking point , the second is being challenged by a plan to build a giant slide in vegas and give it televised hollywood production treatment , much like the arch d' triumph motorcycle jump.

[quade 4]

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i disagree with both assertions , the 1st is a talking point , the second is being challenged by a plan to build a giant slide in vegas and give it televised hollywood production treatment , much like the arch d' triumph motorcycle jump.

I don't know how to tell you this, but that isn't landing a wingsuit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

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I'm all for helping out with the border security, but exactly what Navy elements would you have assist? Most ships are already spending 8-9 months out of the year at sea. You've got to allow some time to repair/upkeep the ships. What mission should we pull units away from in order to patrol costal waters?

That's where the question of "Do we really need to be THERE" comes in when you talk about how many places across the globe the US takes responsibility for protecting and monitoring. I'd rather retask elements closer to home than have them running at the red line handling other people's business.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[shward 0]

so the question remains....

"What missions would you have us pull units from?"

Remember that one of the missions of the US Navy is to maintain the safety of the ocean trade routes.

Then you have the dozen or so ships that are in the Carribean or Pacific off of Columbia, running down drug runners.

Then you have the dozen or so that are guarding the oil platforms and the Straights of Hormuz, making sure that the oil still gets through.

There there are another dozen or so down around the Horn of Africa chasing down pirates and maintaining that" freedom of navigation and trade."

That's just three of the missions that the US Navy is engaged in on a daily basis, there are MANY others. SO, which one would you pull our forces away from?

Life is short, eat more bacon, have more sex and jump anytime you can!!

[skipbelt 0]

i guess the space shuttle doesn't land either !

[wmw999 2,584]

It needs a little more runway than a flying squirrel.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skipbelt 0]

i think jeb corliss is heading up this stunt . if he lands it i'm gonna say he landed . especially at the point in time when he goes from being carried by the air to not being carried by the air. others will have the only remaining option of claiming he is still flying in contravention to all know physical laws !

[masterrig 1]

Recently, illegals were transported from Nogales, Arizona to Presidio, Texas and released on the other side of the border. They've been apprehending them back on this side gradually, ever since. Deportation like all our other Immigration laws are scoffed at. The suggestion of putting them in jails, similar to Sheriff Arpaio's might not be a bad idea. Let the word get back to the illegals that if, they get caught, they go to jail for 2-yrs. and would have to pick-up trash off our highways and work on road gangs, might help deter them. Oh... and make 'em wear PINK!



Chuck

[airdvr 210]

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>So who doesn't think there's a problem with border security?

Sounds like deportation sure doesn't work.

but infiltration works pretty well

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 2]

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It needs a little more runway than a flying squirrel.

Squirrels are cheaper to re-fuel.