0
chuckakers

67 years of street cred - climate dood quits, sez its all a big load!

Recommended Posts

Quote

how many plants do i get ? just a few then check on me in 24 hours .



Wanna bet?

Tell ya what. I'll let you take as many or as few as YOU want as long as it's a 100% closed system. That was, after all, what you were claiming we have here and it's true. It IS a closed system.

So, please, go ahead and design a model that will provide your entire life support system and get back to me. First, however, you might want to Google a "little" experiment called Biosphere 2.

Long story short, it's incredibly difficult to do that sort of calculation. It's a very delicate balance and the reason the Earth has been able to cope so well up to this point is it doesn't care which species of animal rules it or goes extinct.

We humans, probably should care if one of the species in danger happens to be us.

Quote

. . . invested in Co2 is poisonous pollutant !



CO2 is poisonous. If you doubt it, you can try bill's first experiment. But you don't have to go as high as 100%. I'll let you do it with 6%.
http://www.inspectapedia.com/hazmat/CO2gashaz.htm

That said, you've really missed a few points about CO2. We're not as concerned about it being poisonous as we are about it being insulating.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

That said, you've really missed a few points about CO2. We're not as concerned about it being poisonous as we are about it being insulating.



Which, of course, is why temps topped out at the end of the century, despite the steadily rising CO2.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

That said, you've really missed a few points about CO2. We're not as concerned about it being poisonous as we are about it being insulating.



Which, of course, is why temps topped out at the end of the century, despite the steadily rising CO2.



Not according to NASA.
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=409

I realize you -may- have an issue with the good folks over at NASA, but will you please show me the information from another source that is as widely accepted and generally credible that contradicts theirs?

Maybe something from the Russian, Euro or Japan space agencies?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

This is all too common. (Note - Professor Lewis himself attacked the organizational leadership and insinuating the reasons for what he found to be it's malfeasance. To Lewis's credit he said what he was doing and kept it a separate line of argument).



Yes, that's precisely what the letter from Lewis implies.

The problem as I see it is the 200 against the 47,000. I don't care what issue you have or statement you want to make on any topic; it's pretty much a miracle to get the rate of descent down to 0.5%.

Yet, these petitioners still want to have a pissing contest and grab media headlines with a very public letter of resignation . . . why? Why didn't they resign LAST November when this all went down?

Hmmm, it's October. They've managed to flood the blogoshpere with the letter and whip up more denier fodder for the elections in just a couple of weeks.

Isn't that surprising?

No. It's business as usual bullshit pure and simple.


_________________________________________________

perhaps the point is that according to their constitution a petition signed by 200 is supposed to garner a response, not a denial....

As for your link, i'm on dial-up -- it's still downloading -- maybe tomorrow I;ll be able to read it.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

That said, you've really missed a few points about CO2. We're not as concerned about it being poisonous as we are about it being insulating.



Which, of course, is why temps topped out at the end of the century, despite the steadily rising CO2.



Not according to NASA.
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=409

I realize you -may- have an issue with the good folks over at NASA, but will you please show me the information from another source that is as widely accepted and generally credible that contradicts theirs?

Maybe something from the Russian, Euro or Japan space agencies?



Oh, did they massage the data again, so that '98 isn't their hottest year?

Yup...guess they did.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

That said, you've really missed a few points about CO2. We're not as concerned about it being poisonous as we are about it being insulating.



Which, of course, is why temps topped out at the end of the century, despite the steadily rising CO2.



Not according to NASA.
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=409

I realize you -may- have an issue with the good folks over at NASA, but will you please show me the information from another source that is as widely accepted and generally credible that contradicts theirs?

Maybe something from the Russian, Euro or Japan space agencies?



Oh, did they massage the data again, so that '98 isn't their hottest year?



It depends on which data you want to look at.
. . . and what day it is.
. . . and if you can show conflicting data.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

will you please show me the information from another source that is as widely accepted and generally credible that contradicts theirs?

Maybe something from the Russian, Euro or Japan space agencies?



Edited because Mike already brought it up.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Yup...guess they did.



I said;
Quote

. . . please show me the information from another source that is as widely accepted and generally credible that contradicts theirs?



What you've linked to is not another source of information, but a blogger with an opinion devoted to denial.

Sources, not opinion. Independent facts, not a blogger's opinion.

Somebody with an actual PhD. whose business it is to collect global temperature readings and can do so on a planetary scale. Not a blogger.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Somebody with an actual PhD. whose business it is to collect global temperature readings and can do so on a planetary scale. Not a blogger



HADCRUT is, admittedly, not somebody with an actual PhD. It's a collection of several people with actual PhD's whose business is it to collect global temperature readings and can and do on a planetary scale. Specifically, HADCRUT collects sea surface temperature data from the Hadley Centre of the Met office and land surface temperature data from the Climate Research Unit at University of East Anglia (who were in the news starting in November 09).

You don't get better than HADCRUT. GISS is their equal. And they disagree with GISS. GISS DID adjust their data.

How's this? A graph posted on realclimate by Dr. Hansen himself showing GISS as ranking above HADCRUT in 2005.
http://www.realclimate.org/images/Hansen09_fig4.jpg

He's somebody with an actual PhD. whose business it is to collect global temperature readings and can do so on a planetary scale.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Yup...guess they did.



I said;
Quote

. . . please show me the information from another source that is as widely accepted and generally credible that contradicts theirs?



What you've linked to is not another source of information, but a blogger with an opinion devoted to denial.

Sources, not opinion. Independent facts, not a blogger's opinion.



HADCRUT and GISS data were presented in the post.

Quote

Somebody with an actual PhD. whose business it is to collect global temperature readings and can do so on a planetary scale. Not a blogger.



Like GISS, whose database errors were found by that same blogger?

How about exhibiting some of that open-mindedness that you keep demanding from the 'deniers'?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

HADCRUT and GISS data were presented in the post.

Quote

Somebody with an actual PhD. whose business it is to collect global temperature readings and can do so on a planetary scale. Not a blogger.



Like GISS, whose database errors were found by that same blogger?



I was unaware that the blogger who did the analysis had a PhD and the credibility of an independent analyst. I was under the impression he was pretty well biased.

And . . . I'm 100% right in that regard.

Again, show me some independent and credible source information and analysis. Or is the vast majority of the scientific community unable to look at these sources and methodologies and draw similar conclusions. That is, after all, the basis for scientific inquiry.

Show me something in the Journal of Nature that's peer reviewed that contradicts NASA.

Again, not some blogger. Seriously, who is Steven Goddard? Anybody? What's his CV that gives him any credibility? Where are his peer reviewed articles? Does he, in fact, even exist as a real person or is he some sort of fictitious name?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


I was unaware that the blogger who did the analysis had a PhD and the credibility of an independent analyst. I was under the impression he was pretty well biased.

And . . . I'm 100% right in that regard.



Paul - your statement is the same sort of elitist crap that is EXACTLY the reason why climate alarmists are losing ground at an alarming rate. It's because the billions of people who ask questions are being told to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

"Oooh. Unless you have a phd you cannot be correct. No debating. No asking questions." And when an "uneducated" guy like McIntyre correctly points out that the numbers are bad, it is taken seriously by the climate elite clique, who will make the adjustments again and spend time releasing press and non peer-reviewed statements about how it was really nothing more than a "tempest in someone's teapot dome."

Paul - you don't have a degree in aeronautics. Therefore, I'd trust anybody with a BS in aeronautical engineering over you regarding operation of a Cessna 172, don't say a word about density altitude, either - you aren't qualified. Unless you show me rhat you are a cartographer then better not navigate.


And considering your utter lack of experience in electrical and optical engineering, quit posting in the camera flying forum.

The author you cited lacks sufficient education in history and climatology. I won't readf him. The book isn't peer reviewed. He lacks qualifications. Too bad.

I don't think that you really believe this, Paul. Instead, it's a lay technique to cut off debate,


[Reply]Again, show me some independent and credible source information and analysis. Or is the vast majority of the scientific community unable to look at these sources and methodologies and draw similar conclusions. That is, after all, the basis for scientific inquiry



It's more like whoim YOU find credible.

[Reply]Show me something in the Journal of Nature that's peer reviewed that contradicts NASA.



I did. Brand spanking new.

But Paul - there are plenty of journals out there. I see you are narrowing the field of what you find acceptable and I found it and posted it BEFORE you narrowed it.

I grow weary of right-wingers suggestying that anything not on Fox is unreliable. Yours is the same thing, different version. "I won't hear you. I don't like who you are." Because you are more into politics than science. Funny - you are a denier. Denier of any other explanation like a religious nut denying evolution. Some science just doesn't fit your view.

[Reply]
Again, not some blogger. Seriously, who is Steven Goddard? Anybody? What's his CV that gives him any credibility? Where are his peer reviewed articles?



Does that matter? A guy who says, "ice is a greater extent now than any time simce 2007 at this date.". Goddars says, "here's the data and how I read it.".

You don't say, "his conclusions are wrong." Nope. You say, "I don't pay attention" well, others do. And he's perceived by many as being someone who calls bullshit.

And paul - you've already made it perfectly clear that anybody with these qualifications that would be brought up would be automatically dismissed as petrochemical companiy lackies.

Amazingly, the rest of the planet is far more open to debate. Unfortunately, after 22 years of prediction of global disaster that should have already happened we are nowhere near it. Humans have added another billion instead of dying off. Ice melting in the Artic summer is no shock. Polar bears are not endangered. The predictions made HAVE NOT COME TRUE. And one need not have a degree in logic to call bullshit on those who claim "the Northwest Passage has never been open before." We all know that humans haven't seen it. But since we've only been looking for a short time, we know that these people are talking out their asses.

Lay people understand that attributing every single fucking weather occurrence to global warming is bullshit because we all have memory and can recall times when it was said before.

The issue, Paul, is that the "deniers" willingly accept far more information from all sides than the alarmists. You yourself demonstrate a fundamental unwillingness to accept a contrary viewpoint because of your personal subjective vfear that your position might prove untenable. Yours is head in the sand. Though I do credit your courage in sticking with it, I prefer to look at all sides and base my opinion on that.

See, all the phd's on your side have lost credibility. They lost it not because of their science. They lost it because they quit being scientists and moved into the realm of being messiahs -they have been sitting on the hilltop predicting damnation and it hasn't happened. They predict damnation in 100 years - their models prove it.

But, anybody witrhout the arrogance of a phd knows that their predictions aren't science (science is verifiable. It can't be verified for 100 years), and finally, even the british investigation discussed the frat dick attitudes of climate scientists. Saying that they brought this discredit om themselves by their arrogance and secrecy.

It's why there has been no dispute over the recent statistical analysis of the hockey stick. Real statistcs by real statisticians (wirth whom climate scientists have not worked closely, causing further doubt to their predictions).



[Reply] Does he, in fact, even exist as a real person or is he some sort of fictitious name?



Yeah. Je could be Publius, who had nothing worthwhile or lasting to say. Publius can be roundly dismissed as being fictional and ergo nothing written under that name is at all valid.

Deep Throat? Must have been phony.

Anonymous? Primary Colors should not have been published.

Sangiro? Is he even real? Let's ignore forum rules.

Quade? Is that hisreal name? I dount it. And I highly doubt he was named by a taxonomist so it would be a waste of time even considering anything he says...

Somehow, I think you are more reasonable than you will admit.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it elitist to want to ensure the arguments being made are by somebody qualified to do so? Don't lawyers call expert witnesses rather than bloggers?

I'm more than qualified to talk about flying a C-172 and give lessons on aerodynamics. The government gave me a piece of paper that says so just so I could show it to people when they ask about it.

That said, my risk of causing a global catastrophe by making an error is pretty low. The closer I would get to that, the higher my qualifications would need to be. That's one of the reasons the FAA doesn't allow 17-year-old freshly minted private pilots to fly 747s. There's a higher risk involved, more responsibility and higher amounts of training and qualifications.

Even at that level, NASA still isn't going to hand over the keys to a Space Shuttle to "just" an ATP. Nope. That's going to require even more training.

Now, if my duty is to make a local weather forecast, the qualifications for that are still pretty low. I'm going to need a minimal amount of training, but mostly in interpreting what the US Weather Service is telling me.

However, to make an assessment of global climate change is really going to take qualifications well beyond that.

I'm sorry you don't recognize it, but it's the truth none the less.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe you could tell me how many pre-law students have ever argued national policy in front of the Supreme Court? You know, something with actual consequences.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Let me ask you, why do YOU believe this random blogger more than NASA? What is it about his presentation that convinces you he knows what he's talking about?



It is not about the blogger (IE: who he is or what degree he has) it is about the info provide. Which, per your normal mode of operation, you dismiss him/this off hand. One can only surmise you do this because you do not what to entertain the implication you might be wrong or, to a smaller degree, has something you have to consider.

Now, if you would care to debate what is presented, debunk that (if you can, and that goes both ways) a discussion can be had.

Sadly, as lawrocket has CLEARLY shown, you are not up to that.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0