kelpdiver 2 #26 October 5, 2010 Quote So what's new? That has been going on my entire life, and I just turned 65. the scale has changed. DC got used to spending the large surpluses generated by the boomers after the FICA rate was jacked up early in the Reagan administration. Technically it's SS's money, but of course that's BS. And now that paper surplus is basically gone, yet they're still spending like they have a nice endowment. Relative to the total deficit, cash for clunkers seems like a tall Starbucks and a pastry, but it's still 10s of billions for little return. They do add up, just as it does for the coffee junkie. Equally silly is spending the "found money" coming back in from TARP, even though it was debt in the first place. SS is running about even - doesn't seem appropriate to shave it for general budgetary problems. Defense, otoh, time to get the fuck out of the east, or let the EU start paying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 October 5, 2010 Quote So you really think MAJORITY power is going to change in both the House AND Senate? Seems wildly optimistic. optimistic, not wildly. Though it doesn't really matter - even with a 59-40 ish deficit in the Senate they managed to fillibuster really well. Any gains there will be crippling to Reid (presuming he even wins reelection). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #28 October 5, 2010 QuoteThe fact (?) that MSNBC is now #2 is pretty telling - it's just as crappy at keeping people informed. Personally, I don't care if they feel engaged. Do they need a gold star with sprinkles? My point was that many people whos viewpoints are aligned with those expressed on msnbc (social programs/big gov/handouts) are watching Jersey Shore and CSI. People with an opposing viewpoint (small govt/lower tax/free market) are more tuned-in and engaged to day-to-day politics. And Fox happens to be the network that is aligned with their thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #29 October 5, 2010 Around where I work (quite aligned with Fox News -- we even have that on TVs next to the bathrooms), folks talk about CSI and Survivor. I'm not sure where you get your data, but if it's anecdotal I'm not sure it means much other than what's popular that you don't care for. Me, I'm pretty liberal, and I don't watch much TV; just 60 Minutes, Antiques Roadshow, and the occasional taped Jeopardy. I don't think that means much, either. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #30 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe fact (?) that MSNBC is now #2 is pretty telling - it's just as crappy at keeping people informed. Personally, I don't care if they feel engaged. Do they need a gold star with sprinkles? My point was that many people whos viewpoints are aligned with those expressed on msnbc (social programs/big gov/handouts) are watching Jersey Shore and CSI. People with an opposing viewpoint (small govt/lower tax/free market) are more tuned-in and engaged to day-to-day politics. And Fox happens to be the network that is aligned with their thinking. I know what you're claiming, but it's wishful horseshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #31 October 5, 2010 Quotewishful horseshit I really don't care what people watch. Most of my liberal friends don't stay current with legislation/policies/elections/ and most of my conservative friends do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #32 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuotewishful horseshit I really don't care what people watch. Most of my liberal friends don't stay current with legislation/policies/elections/ and most of my conservative friends do. My conservative friends watch C-span . . . and see the drivel that they spew.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #33 October 6, 2010 alot of libs , libertarians , independant and other non conservatives watch fox becauese they have alot of oposing opinion, and they want to see the latest conservative strategies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuotewishful horseshit I really don't care what people watch. Most of my liberal friends don't stay current with legislation/policies/elections/ and most of my conservative friends do. In the Bay Area, it's hugely skewed left. Put it this way - when Bush was in charge, people were picketing the White House and the Crawford Ranch. Now the only people in front of the WH are taking pictures as tourists. Therefore, conservatives are lazy and non current. They can't even be bothered to show for a Beck rally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #35 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote wishful horseshit I really don't care what people watch. Most of my liberal friends don't stay current with legislation/policies/elections/ and most of my conservative friends do. In the Bay Area, it's hugely skewed left. Put it this way - when Bush was in charge, people were picketing the White House and the Crawford Ranch. Now the only people in front of the WH are taking pictures as tourists. Therefore, conservatives are lazy and non current. They can't even be bothered to show for a Beck rally. Speaking of rallies...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 October 6, 2010 Quotealot of libs , libertarians , independant and other non conservatives watch fox becauese they have alot of oposing opinion, and they want to see the latest conservative strategies I *occasionally* view Fox because I find it comical how blatant the bias and presentation is. I don't do the same with MSNBC because for some reason whiny liberals ranting is annoying to me. I can't explain why - I think they're just lousy showmen. They are better at satire, though. PJ O'Rourke is the only righty with that sort of style and he's a bit past his day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 October 6, 2010 Quote Speaking of rallies... err, lacking of evidence to properly evaluate. I don't even know what the before/after is. We do know that there are more tourists there in August. The shadows in the 10-2 are rather markedly biased for a claimed high noon, one week after the equinox. It could be normal there, but again with such little evidence here I can trust, I wouldn't use it. EXIF data is trivial to alter - in fact, you just reset the camera's date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 October 6, 2010 It's not a before/after. But, here's another shot of the 10/2 one that seems to confirm the picture you have doubts of: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/slideshow/ALeqM5icsuVv08fYW2-G7Ql3ysjyh4CkTgD9IJOTI81?docId=D9IJOTI81&index=1Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #39 October 6, 2010 Quotealot of libs , libertarians , independant and other non conservatives watch fox becauese they have alot of oposing opinion, and they want to see the latest conservative strategies It is much like gaping at a car crash - you just have to see it. Then turn away, freshly revulsed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #40 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuotealot of libs , libertarians , independant and other non conservatives watch fox becauese they have alot of oposing opinion, and they want to see the latest conservative strategies It is much like gaping at a car crash - you just have to see it. Then turn away, freshly revulsed. i know what you mean, i am freshly revulsed at the nearly 50% of liberal guests , and their tripe they spout. thanks for noticing ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #41 October 6, 2010 Quote i know what you mean, i am freshly revulsed at the nearly 50% of liberal guests , and their tripe they spout. thanks for noticing ! Serious question for those who watch both. Do the hosts on the MSNBC shows let their guests fully answer the questions that they are asked, or do the hosts constantly interrupt them and talk over their answers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #42 October 6, 2010 QuoteSerious question for those who watch both. Do the hosts on the MSNBC shows let their guests fully answer the questions that they are asked, or do the hosts constantly interrupt them and talk over their answers? Of the 3 biggie cables, I think Fox does that the most (esp. if it's a non-conservative), CNN does that the least, and MSNBC is somewhere in the middle. Chris Matthews (MSNBC) used to interrupt so often and aggressively on Hardball, that I found myself changing the channel because I found it so obnoxious. He just wouldn't STFU and let the guest talk so we'd know what the poor guest had to say! I remember being really offended by the very disrespectful way he did that to former VP Dan Quayle one time, and I'm no Quayle fan by any stretch. But more recently, he's toned that down a lot. In fairness, guests do ramble, and with limited time, you have to move them along. I watch the Morning Joe show a lot, and I think, within reason, they let guests have their say for the most part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #43 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Serious question for those who watch both. Do the hosts on the MSNBC shows let their guests fully answer the questions that they are asked, or do the hosts constantly interrupt them and talk over their answers? Of the 3 biggie cables, I think Fox does that the most (esp. if it's a non-conservative), CNN does that the least, and MSNBC is somewhere in the middle. Chris Matthews (MSNBC) used to interrupt so often and aggressively on Hardball, that I found myself changing the channel because I found it so obnoxious. He just wouldn't STFU and let the guest talk so we'd know what the poor guest had to say! I remember being really offended by the very disrespectful way he did that to former VP Dan Quayle one time, and I'm no Quayle fan by any stretch. But more recently, he's toned that down a lot. In fairness, guests do ramble, and with limited time, you have to move them along. I watch the Morning Joe show a lot, and I think, within reason, they let guests have their say for the most part. DO you think Joe might bristle a bit to being called a liberal as he was here by a clueless poster?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #44 October 6, 2010 Quotewhen Bush was in charge, people were picketing the White House and the Crawford Ranch. Now the only people in front of the WH are taking pictures as tourists. Perhaps that's true, I haven't been to the White House lately. Maybe conservatives don't picket because they are working at their jobs or realize that voting, not picketing, changes policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #45 October 6, 2010 I had to laugh when he said he was going to leave the republican party for a conservative party. The man's voting history in congress shows either (A) he is solidly in the conservative camp or (B) he's a really good politician who recognized that his district is solidly in the conservative camp. But really, he hawks for MSNBC now. He and his sidekick have been bashing Bush and defending Obama religiously. He knows who his boss is and who his audience is. I wouldn't call him a liberal, but he (and his show) sure seems to spout democratic talking points pretty regularly. Good politicians and good actors know their audience and present themselves accordingly. Politicians and actors... kind of redundant, isn't it? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #46 October 6, 2010 >Maybe conservatives don't picket because they are working at their jobs or >realize that voting, not picketing, changes policy. And yet conservatives breathlessly inflate the numbers of people seen at Tea Party rallies. I guess we can dismiss them as lazy unemployed rabble who just don't "get" that voting (and working) is what works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuotewhen Bush was in charge, people were picketing the White House and the Crawford Ranch. Now the only people in front of the WH are taking pictures as tourists. Perhaps that's true, I haven't been to the White House lately. Maybe conservatives don't picket because they are working at their jobs or realize that voting, not picketing, changes policy. Watching Fox news and blogging to each other about false stories certainly doesn't change policy. Well, at least not for the better. Maybe liberals don't waste their time watching TV - they read newspapers on the way to work. see how silly these generalizations get? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #48 October 6, 2010 Quote I had to laugh when he said he was going to leave the republican party for a conservative party. The man's voting history in congress shows either (A) he is solidly in the conservative camp or (B) he's a really good politician who recognized that his district is solidly in the conservative camp. But really, he hawks for MSNBC now. He and his sidekick have been bashing Bush and defending Obama religiously. He knows who his boss is and who his audience is. I wouldn't call him a liberal, but he (and his show) sure seems to spout democratic talking points pretty regularly. Good politicians and good actors know their audience and present themselves accordingly. Politicians and actors... kind of redundant, isn't it? I watch him almost every morning.. and I get more a moderate vibe from him supporting things that make sense and rejecting the absolutely goat fuck stupid. I guess he is one of those conservatives.. who the current crop of conservetards see only as a RINO. If he was running in my district he is a republican I could vote for. We still have a few of those out here... they are hard to find nowadays... but they are still out there actually serving the people in the middle and staying the fuck away from the extremists. OH and as far as his bashing of Bush.. I think he realizes that Bush drove the party so far from any semblance of fiscal responsibility...or small government and abandoned ANY of his stated goals when he was running, that he was not anywhere close to being anything of what the Republican party used to stand for. MSNBC does have a tad too many dyed in the wool liberals, but Joe ain't one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #49 October 6, 2010 QuoteAnd yet conservatives breathlessly inflate the numbers of people seen at Tea Party rallies. Funny you mention that... QuoteI guess we can dismiss them as lazy unemployed rabble who just don't "get" that voting (and working) is what works. So, were all those union workers at the Schultz rally being paid scale, or did they get overtime?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #50 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnd yet conservatives breathlessly inflate the numbers of people seen at Tea Party rallies. Funny you mention that... QuoteI guess we can dismiss them as lazy unemployed rabble who just don't "get" that voting (and working) is what works. So, were all those union workers at the Schultz rally being paid scale, or did they get overtime? Ouch This one will leave a mark"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites