mnealtx 0 #101 October 6, 2010 Quote So basically if YOU can't see it.. its not happening... yup.. the powers of visual observation are the solution to all the pollution. Future generations are not going to be kind to those of us alive today Looks like they'll have more time to form the opinion before that tidal wave of melting glacier washes over them: ""The corrections for deformations of the Earth’s crust have a considerable effect on the amount of ice that is estimated to be melting each year," explains Dr Bert Vermeersen. "We have concluded that the Greenland and West Antarctica ice caps are melting at approximately half the speed originally predicted." Vermeersen and his colleagues' calculations show that as little as 500 gigatonnes of ice or even less could have melted from Greenland during 2003-2009, translating into less than 2mm of sea-level rise. In the case of Greenland, it could be that the current estimates are triple what they should be."Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #102 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo? There once were none of them, then they formed during the ice age and now the cycle comes around. Er, when do you assume the last time there were none of them? Your lack of concern and the department of conservations major concern are correlated. You know nothing and assume and they have comprehensive data from the past 120 years and their announced forecasts are conservative to keep the likes of you happy. they have a series of forecasts for different scenarios. the current data is actuall worse than the worst case scanario. these studies have been conducted for decades, well before any of this political crap has obscured the reason for them. In reality the glaciers are melting faster than their conservative, and worst case estimations. They may be incorrect but they certainly have more of a clue than you do. They spend lots of time, energy and money studying it, you jump to your own (biased) conclusions. Dude, they used to be where I live now. Did AGW melt them years ago too? Do a little Google looking. Maybe glacier research I have You obviously have not"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #103 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote I reject the premise of your question outright. That is not what is being talked about again Which premise? You said that the government is driving up the cost of doing business, and causing jobs to go overseas. So I surmised it was taxes, but you said it wasn't taxes, it was regulation. So I asked which regulations (I provided some examples, but they were just examples), and now you're saying you reject the premise entirely. But the premise of my question is asking how, specifically, the government is driving up the cost of doing business. Yes, I might counter a reason that you give, but that's what debate is about. You don't just accept whatever I say, and I don't just accept whatever you say. Wendy P. The others things you list do have an effect however, this is an environmental thread. That is what I have been talking about. Expanding the discussion does no good ZIG ----------------------------------------ZAG ----------------------------------------Dodge to the right --------------------------------------------------------------Dodge more right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #104 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote I reject the premise of your question outright. That is not what is being talked about again Which premise? You said that the government is driving up the cost of doing business, and causing jobs to go overseas. So I surmised it was taxes, but you said it wasn't taxes, it was regulation. So I asked which regulations (I provided some examples, but they were just examples), and now you're saying you reject the premise entirely. But the premise of my question is asking how, specifically, the government is driving up the cost of doing business. Yes, I might counter a reason that you give, but that's what debate is about. You don't just accept whatever I say, and I don't just accept whatever you say. Wendy P. The others things you list do have an effect however, this is an environmental thread. That is what I have been talking about. Expanding the discussion does no good ZIG ----------------------------------------ZAG ----------------------------------------Dodge to the right --------------------------------------------------------------Dodge more right I am sorry I forget you have trouble keeping up"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #105 October 6, 2010 >there is a good correlation between this and the lowering of noxious >emissions for 40+ years. Agreed. California alone has gotten drastically better due to CARB and later to the EPA. Regulated pollutants have been reduced between 50% and 95% depending on the pollutant. It was so bad back in the 70's that doctors were advising their LA patients with lung problems to move. Today you can see the mountains most days. It should also be noted that when CARB first started proposing the very regulations that cleaned up the air, the car companies claimed that: -any such regulations would bankrupt the auto industry -those regulations would result in everyone driving Pinto deathtraps -no one would be able to afford cars made of computers and platinum -it's all a plot by the manufacturers of emissions equipment It reminds me of what people are saying today about CO2. >plants need co2 and they breathe it , don't they ? And people breathe O2. But try diving with a bottle of the stuff. More isn't always better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #106 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo? There once were none of them, then they formed during the ice age and now the cycle comes around. Er, when do you assume the last time there were none of them? Your lack of concern and the department of conservations major concern are correlated. You know nothing and assume and they have comprehensive data from the past 120 years and their announced forecasts are conservative to keep the likes of you happy. they have a series of forecasts for different scenarios. the current data is actuall worse than the worst case scanario. these studies have been conducted for decades, well before any of this political crap has obscured the reason for them. In reality the glaciers are melting faster than their conservative, and worst case estimations. They may be incorrect but they certainly have more of a clue than you do. They spend lots of time, energy and money studying it, you jump to your own (biased) conclusions. Dude, they used to be where I live now. Did AGW melt them years ago too? Do a little Google looking. Maybe glacier research I have You obviously have not We WERE living in a natural interstade at the end of the last advance. Human beings have insured that there will be no further advances for you to worry about there in corn land for a hell of a long time to come... UNLESS we get really stupid and think that fighting a nuclear war is a good idea. But with this again being one of the hottest years on record.. climate change is marching on. People are going to have to learn to adapt. I sure hope the food we depend on can adapt as well in a desert created by successive droughts in areas that were once very fertile. And lets not forget the poisoned ocean that has vast patches of garbage that have some components that are decomposing and breaking down to a size that the smallest animals and the young of other creatures that feed on them in the food chain are ingesting. All out of sight.. and out of the conservative mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #107 October 6, 2010 You think us to be more powerful than I"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #108 October 6, 2010 Quote You think us to be more powerful than I And when you are PROVED wrong???? Please get our of your coal fired power plant and travel a bit to the area's being affected Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #109 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote You think us to be more powerful than I And when you are PROVED wrong???? Please get our of your coal fired power plant and travel a bit to the area's being affected Wooosh "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #110 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote You think us to be more powerful than I And when you are PROVED wrong???? Please get our of your coal fired power plant and travel a bit to the area's being affected Wooosh Man I am so glad I do not go thru life with that sound smacking me daily Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #111 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote You think us to be more powerful than I And when you are PROVED wrong???? Please get our of your coal fired power plant and travel a bit to the area's being affected Wooosh Sorry I did not know you could could not hear Man I am so glad I do not go thru life with that sound smacking me daily "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #112 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou think us to be more powerful than I And when you are PROVED wrong???? That's right, Marc - don't forget the manmade warming around 0-200 AD or from 800-1000 AD, when the temperature was as high or higher than today!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #113 October 6, 2010 global warming religion believers have quietly sidestepped away from that phrase ,and are now touting climate change, alot easier to be evasive with that. try this one on for size http://www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/051010/nz___snow_hits_farmers_big_time_.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #114 October 6, 2010 >try this one on for size Hmm. New Zealand? A small country, but a very nice place overall. Let's try the whole world: ================== NOAA: 2010 Tied with 1998 as Warmest Global Temperature on Record Summer 2010 the second warmest on record, Arctic sea ice continues its 14-year decline September 15, 2010 The first eight months of 2010 tied the same period in 1998 for the warmest combined land and ocean surface temperature on record worldwide. Meanwhile, the June–August summer was the second warmest on record globally after 1998, and last month was the third warmest August on record. Separately, last month’s global average land surface temperature was the second warmest on record for August, while the global ocean surface temperature tied with 1997 as the sixth warmest for August. ====================== D'oh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #115 October 6, 2010 Quote>try this one on for size Hmm. New Zealand? A small country, but a very nice place overall. Let's try the whole world: ================== NOAA: 2010 Tied with 1998 as Warmest Global Temperature on Record Summer 2010 the second warmest on record, Arctic sea ice continues its 14-year decline September 15, 2010 The first eight months of 2010 tied the same period in 1998 for the warmest combined land and ocean surface temperature on record worldwide. Meanwhile, the June–August summer was the second warmest on record globally after 1998, and last month was the third warmest August on record. Separately, last month’s global average land surface temperature was the second warmest on record for August, while the global ocean surface temperature tied with 1997 as the sixth warmest for August. ====================== D'oh! Odd how the 30's suddenly became less warm, isn't it? Gotta love that 'value-added' data. Meanwhile, Arctic ice continues to gain thickness and Antarctic ice continues to increase. Homer definitely suits the warmist zealots.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #116 October 6, 2010 QuoteArctic ice continues to gain thickness and Antarctic ice continues to increase.Well, looking at some data (both Wikipedia and some of its references), it looks like the last two years have increased some ice thickness, while continuing to reduce the area. Overall volume continues to shrink. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #117 October 6, 2010 QuoteOverall volume continues to shrink. Wendy P. Actually, it seems to have increased.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #118 October 6, 2010 QuoteDude, they used to be where I live now. Did AGW melt them years ago too? Do a little Google looking. Maybe glacier research I have You obviously have not There is a distinct difference between a glacier that takes thousands of years to melt and one that takes 50 years. My whole island was once covered in them also, and yes they melted, but the thing you don't quite fathom with your short attention span and want for instant gratificaton is that a glacier melting from the bottom of the valley to its neve in 50 years is unprecedented. Franz josef glacier is one that has been advancing while others were retreating. so you are an expert in glaciers now and the department of conservation in Nw Zealnd do not have a clue? is that what you are saying?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #119 October 6, 2010 quit obscuring the agenda with facts. don't you ever tire of that ? a word is worth a word. a link is worth 1,000 on average. but we must concoct an agenda conversion! as i write this i am listening to cat scratch fever -ted nugent- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #120 October 6, 2010 Quotequit obscuring the agenda with facts. don't you ever tire of that ? a word is worth a word. a link is worth 1,000 on average. but we must concoct an agenda conversion! as i write this i am listening to cat scratch fever -ted nugent- Thread drift and side conversations happen, bro - you're just going to have to deal with it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #121 October 6, 2010 QuoteQuotequit obscuring the agenda with facts. don't you ever tire of that ? a word is worth a word. a link is worth 1,000 on average. but we must concoct an agenda conversion! as i write this i am listening to cat scratch fever -ted nugent- Thread drift and side conversations happen, bro - you're just going to have to deal with it. Speaking of which - Did you see the new gun they have out on sale?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #122 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote quit obscuring the agenda with facts. don't you ever tire of that ? a word is worth a word. a link is worth 1,000 on average. but we must concoct an agenda conversion! as i write this i am listening to cat scratch fever -ted nugent- Thread drift and side conversations happen, bro - you're just going to have to deal with it. Speaking of which - Did you see the new gun they have out on sale? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #123 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote quit obscuring the agenda with facts. don't you ever tire of that ? a word is worth a word. a link is worth 1,000 on average. but we must concoct an agenda conversion! as i write this i am listening to cat scratch fever -ted nugent- Thread drift and side conversations happen, bro - you're just going to have to deal with it. Speaking of which - Did you see the new gun they have out on sale? Is it supposed to make your codpieces look more manly??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #124 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote quit obscuring the agenda with facts. don't you ever tire of that ? a word is worth a word. a link is worth 1,000 on average. but we must concoct an agenda conversion! as i write this i am listening to cat scratch fever -ted nugent- Thread drift and side conversations happen, bro - you're just going to have to deal with it. Speaking of which - Did you see the new gun they have out on sale? Is it supposed to make your codpieces look more manly??? Don't you own a 44 Mag?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #125 October 6, 2010 not even a smile ? i really thought you would enjoy the sweet irony! as i write this i am listening to just the two of us remake -will smith- oddly appropriate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
