Amazon 7 #51 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteAs for the good science. Sorry, dont buy it. Too many variables and too many polititions involvedThere are a lot of variables. Of course, there are in cancer research too. Should we quit working on that? Politicians? Shit, there are politicians involved in everything. And as far as taxes on fuel, are you really saying that it's only the taxes that are making the price high, that the cost should be reduced so that we can burn it faster??? Because you know that's what would happen. Wendy P. I am not saying anything about taxes I saying the gov says where,when and how much we can drill for and that is leaving many areas out of bounds. But the greenies and the like do not want other sources tapped. Price would go down and we cant have that So the politicians all want to get rich on this issue.... hmmm I think it would be less disingenuous if those fighting to keep prices low and burn baby burn everything in sight... were not the ones who are making all the money now.. Your own job depends on it and it seems the Texas Bloc here are also all on the side with the blinders and the fingers in the ears saying NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH there is no global warming NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #52 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAs for the good science. Sorry, dont buy it. Too many variables and too many polititions involvedThere are a lot of variables. Of course, there are in cancer research too. Should we quit working on that? Politicians? Shit, there are politicians involved in everything. And as far as taxes on fuel, are you really saying that it's only the taxes that are making the price high, that the cost should be reduced so that we can burn it faster??? Because you know that's what would happen. Wendy P. I am not saying anything about taxes I saying the gov says where,when and how much we can drill for and that is leaving many areas out of bounds. But the greenies and the like do not want other sources tapped. Price would go down and we cant have that So the politicians all want to get rich on this issue.... hmmm I think it would be less disingenuous if those fighting to keep prices low and burn baby burn everything in sight... are the ones who are making all the money now.. Your own job depends on it and it seems the Texas Bloc here are also all on the side with the blinders and the fingers in the ears saying NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH there is no global warming NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH. I find it funny that you think polititons are good as gold on topics and issues you agree with and flip and flop like a salmon on pavement when you dont Thanks for the laugh"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #53 October 5, 2010 >The cost of fuel is artificialy high because of Gov regualtion and limitation. Given that the cost of fuel here is among the lowest in the world, that's not a very valid point. If your point is that we have a level of government regulation that gives us some of the lowest fuel prices in the world, agreed. And yes, that is part of the problem. >For those pushing it, it is about money . . . Again, your argument that scientists are all about money, and Exxon isn't, is unsupportable in reality. >There is a reason the AWG issue has lost some seam. I think it is >because it aint happening. Because it's become accepted, actually. There's just not that much controversy any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #54 October 5, 2010 Quote>The cost of fuel is artificialy high because of Gov regualtion and limitation. Given that the cost of fuel here is among the lowest in the world, that's not a very valid point. If your point is that we have a level of government regulation that gives us some of the lowest fuel prices in the world, agreed. And yes, that is part of the problem. >For those pushing it, it is about money . . . Again, your argument that scientists are all about money, and Exxon isn't, is unsupportable in reality. >There is a reason the AWG issue has lost some seam. I think it is >because it aint happening. Because it's become accepted, actually. There's just not that much controversy any more. Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this settled scienctific topic sir?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #55 October 5, 2010 >Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this >settled scienctific topic sir? ?? None of the new regulations I know of "combat science topics." The laws on the books that limit CO2 emissions are intended to do just that, just as cap-and-trade reduced SOx emissions (and thus acid rain) and just as the EPA reduced pollution dramatically in the USA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #56 October 5, 2010 Quote>Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this >settled scienctific topic sir? ?? None of the new regulations I know of "combat science topics." The laws on the books that limit CO2 emissions are intended to do just that, just as cap-and-trade reduced SOx emissions (and thus acid rain) and just as the EPA reduced pollution dramatically in the USA. That is easy to claim (for some of these) when said regulations run manufacturing out of the country. To other countries where when they produce the same items, do it with more polution. But, at least it is not here huh, along with the jobs"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #57 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuote>Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this >settled scienctific topic sir? ?? None of the new regulations I know of "combat science topics." The laws on the books that limit CO2 emissions are intended to do just that, just as cap-and-trade reduced SOx emissions (and thus acid rain) and just as the EPA reduced pollution dramatically in the USA. That is easy to claim (for some of these) when said regulations run manufacturing out of the country. To other countries where when they produce the same items, do it with more polution. But, at least it is not here huh, along with the jobs Its not the regulations.. its the GREED of those who will NEVER have enough. Why pay an American a living wage... when they can get chinese slave labor... all in the name of another billion dollars to those who already have so much. Sorry.. but I think its time to look at the out-sourching of American jobs very carefully. If those who own most of everything already can't see the harm they are doing to this country then they need a wake up call. If you want to seel your stuff to Americans... then Americans need to be part of the process of making those consumer items. The bottom line needs to take into account the solvency of our country, not just your ability to bank a few more billion dollars for a very few owners who have benefitted from being an American. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #58 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote>Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this >settled scienctific topic sir? ?? None of the new regulations I know of "combat science topics." The laws on the books that limit CO2 emissions are intended to do just that, just as cap-and-trade reduced SOx emissions (and thus acid rain) and just as the EPA reduced pollution dramatically in the USA. That is easy to claim (for some of these) when said regulations run manufacturing out of the country. To other countries where when they produce the same items, do it with more polution. But, at least it is not here huh, along with the jobs Its not the regulations.. its the GREED of those who will NEVER have enough. Why pay an American a living wage... when they can get chinese slave labor... all in the name of another billion dollars to those who already have so much. Sorry.. but I think its time to look at the out-sourching of American jobs very carefully. If those who own most of everything already can't see the harm they are doing to this country then they need a wake up call. If you want to seel your stuff to Americans... then Americans need to be part of the process of making those consumer items. The bottom line needs to take into account the solvency of our country, not just your ability to bank a few more billion dollars for a very few owners who have benefitted from being an American. Whatever Right down the progresives, bad corps, line of talking points Well done!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #59 October 5, 2010 Do you think that the cost of regulation is greater than the cost of American labor? And which regulations would you like to get rid of? Pollution? Safe working conditions? Truth in advertising? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #60 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this >settled scienctific topic sir? ?? None of the new regulations I know of "combat science topics." The laws on the books that limit CO2 emissions are intended to do just that, just as cap-and-trade reduced SOx emissions (and thus acid rain) and just as the EPA reduced pollution dramatically in the USA. That is easy to claim (for some of these) when said regulations run manufacturing out of the country. To other countries where when they produce the same items, do it with more polution. But, at least it is not here huh, along with the jobs Its not the regulations.. its the GREED of those who will NEVER have enough. Why pay an American a living wage... when they can get chinese slave labor... all in the name of another billion dollars to those who already have so much. Sorry.. but I think its time to look at the out-sourching of American jobs very carefully. If those who own most of everything already can't see the harm they are doing to this country then they need a wake up call. If you want to seel your stuff to Americans... then Americans need to be part of the process of making those consumer items. The bottom line needs to take into account the solvency of our country, not just your ability to bank a few more billion dollars for a very few owners who have benefitted from being an American. Whatever Right down the progresives, bad corps, line of talking points Well done! How much does your company pay for those blinders again??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #61 October 5, 2010 Quote>For those pushing it, it is about money . . . Again, your argument that scientists are all about money, and Exxon isn't, is unsupportable in reality. Climate research grants - 79 billion and counting since 1989. Exxon - 23 million. Quote>There is a reason the AWG issue has lost some seam. I think it is >because it aint happening. Because it's become accepted, actually. There's just not that much controversy any more. "A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - LeninMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #62 October 5, 2010 QuoteDo you think that the cost of regulation is greater than the cost of American labor? And which regulations would you like to get rid of? Pollution? Safe working conditions? Truth in advertising? Wendy P. I reject the premise of your question outright. That is not what is being talked about again But There is a balance to all of this Wendy IMO. And it has swung too far one way as of now. It will come back"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #63 October 5, 2010 Quote I saying the gov says where,when and how much we can drill for and that is leaving many areas out of bounds. But the greenies and the like do not want other sources tapped. Price would go down and we cant have that That's not true, unless we were to nationalize our oil supply. Remember what happened last year when the US suddenly cut back on fuel consumption by about 5%? We had a surplus of oil. As a result many oil companies chose to store the oil offshore in container ships and wait for the demand, and their price, to improve. It's not the greenies who are keeping oil prices elevated. It's the market. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #64 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Well then how is all the new regulation going to combat this >settled scienctific topic sir? ?? None of the new regulations I know of "combat science topics." The laws on the books that limit CO2 emissions are intended to do just that, just as cap-and-trade reduced SOx emissions (and thus acid rain) and just as the EPA reduced pollution dramatically in the USA. That is easy to claim (for some of these) when said regulations run manufacturing out of the country. To other countries where when they produce the same items, do it with more polution. But, at least it is not here huh, along with the jobs Its not the regulations.. its the GREED of those who will NEVER have enough. Why pay an American a living wage... when they can get chinese slave labor... all in the name of another billion dollars to those who already have so much. Sorry.. but I think its time to look at the out-sourching of American jobs very carefully. If those who own most of everything already can't see the harm they are doing to this country then they need a wake up call. If you want to seel your stuff to Americans... then Americans need to be part of the process of making those consumer items. The bottom line needs to take into account the solvency of our country, not just your ability to bank a few more billion dollars for a very few owners who have benefitted from being an American. Whatever Right down the progresives, bad corps, line of talking points Well done! How much does your company pay for those blinders again??? Dont need them We just wasted 163 million on a wind farm because of this crap Money that could be been much better spent"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #65 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuote>For those pushing it, it is about money . . . Again, your argument that scientists are all about money, and Exxon isn't, is unsupportable in reality. Climate research grants - 79 billion and counting since 1989. Exxon - 23 million. Quote>There is a reason the AWG issue has lost some seam. I think it is >because it aint happening. Because it's become accepted, actually. There's just not that much controversy any more. "A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Lenin And how much investment in the status quo have your employers invested? How many of your friends and family in Texas benefit from the status quo???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #66 October 5, 2010 All withstanding . . . I really don't want anyone of my liberal friends blown up! I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #67 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote>For those pushing it, it is about money . . . Again, your argument that scientists are all about money, and Exxon isn't, is unsupportable in reality. Climate research grants - 79 billion and counting since 1989. Exxon - 23 million. Quote>There is a reason the AWG issue has lost some seam. I think it is >because it aint happening. Because it's become accepted, actually. There's just not that much controversy any more. "A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Lenin And how much investment in the status quo have your employers invested? Actually, part of the company makes wind turbine parts, if I recall correctly. QuoteHow many of your friends and family in Texas benefit from the status quo???? None that I'm aware of. Damn, gotta hate it when those stereotypes fall on their faces...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #68 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuote I saying the gov says where,when and how much we can drill for and that is leaving many areas out of bounds. But the greenies and the like do not want other sources tapped. Price would go down and we cant have that That's not true, unless we were to nationalize our oil supply. Remember what happened last year when the US suddenly cut back on fuel consumption by about 5%? We had a surplus of oil. As a result many oil companies chose to store the oil offshore in container ships and wait for the demand, and their price, to improve. It's not the greenies who are keeping oil prices elevated. It's the market. Agreed, the market is part of it too. But they have to cover costs as well as any business. Farmers hold their corn for better prices when they can It that evil too? Imagine if the cost to produce was reduced by opening up easier places to drill and by more common sense regulations. More companies would be able to compete then. What does compition do to pricing? (just one senario)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #69 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote >For those pushing it, it is about money . . . Again, your argument that scientists are all about money, and Exxon isn't, is unsupportable in reality. Climate research grants - 79 billion and counting since 1989. Exxon - 23 million. Quote >There is a reason the AWG issue has lost some seam. I think it is >because it aint happening. Because it's become accepted, actually. There's just not that much controversy any more. "A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Lenin And how much investment in the status quo have your employers invested? Actually, part of the company makes wind turbine parts, if I recall correctly. Quote How many of your friends and family in Texas benefit from the status quo???? None that I'm aware of. Damn, gotta hate it when those stereotypes fall on their faces... RIIIIIIIGHT.... the economy of Texas has nothing to do with energy.... move along.. nothing to see here.. these are not the oil wealth that has any effect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #70 October 5, 2010 Quote RIIIIIIIGHT.... the economy of Texas has nothing to do with energy.... move along.. nothing to see here.. these are not the oil wealth that has any effect. Never said that - that's your strawman. None of my family is in the energy field, and, in case you've forgotten: City: Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo I'm not in Texas. Have fun with your imploding stereotypes, Jeanne.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #71 October 5, 2010 QuoteI reject the premise of your question outright. That is not what is being talked about againWhich premise? You said that the government is driving up the cost of doing business, and causing jobs to go overseas. So I surmised it was taxes, but you said it wasn't taxes, it was regulation. So I asked which regulations (I provided some examples, but they were just examples), and now you're saying you reject the premise entirely. But the premise of my question is asking how, specifically, the government is driving up the cost of doing business. Yes, I might counter a reason that you give, but that's what debate is about. You don't just accept whatever I say, and I don't just accept whatever you say. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #72 October 5, 2010 Quote So I asked which regulations This is an eco thread.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #73 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote RIIIIIIIGHT.... the economy of Texas has nothing to do with energy.... move along.. nothing to see here.. these are not the oil wealth that has any effect. Never said that - that's your strawman. None of my family is in the energy field, and, in case you've forgotten: City: Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo I'm not in Texas. Have fun with your imploding stereotypes, Jeanne. Sorry.. but I just have a very low tolerance for smoke being blown up my ass...... others milage CERTAINLY varies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #74 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote RIIIIIIIGHT.... the economy of Texas has nothing to do with energy.... move along.. nothing to see here.. these are not the oil wealth that has any effect. Never said that - that's your strawman. None of my family is in the energy field, and, in case you've forgotten: City: Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo I'm not in Texas. Have fun with your imploding stereotypes, Jeanne. Sorry.. but I just have a very low tolerance for smoke being blown up my ass...... others milage CERTAINLY varies. Maybe it will stop now that your strawman is out of the picture.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #75 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote RIIIIIIIGHT.... the economy of Texas has nothing to do with energy.... move along.. nothing to see here.. these are not the oil wealth that has any effect. Never said that - that's your strawman. None of my family is in the energy field, and, in case you've forgotten: City: Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo I'm not in Texas. Have fun with your imploding stereotypes, Jeanne. Sorry.. but I just have a very low tolerance for smoke being blown up my ass...... others milage CERTAINLY varies. Maybe it will stop now that your strawman is out of the picture. Yeah... I am sure that growing up where you did.. and where your friends and family are.. has absolutely no bearingIs it endemic down there with Texicans... do yall REALLY think you can fool all of the people all of the time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
