Good idea or Bad idea?

[Rstanley0312 1]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/29/news/economy/congress_china_currency_bill/index.htm

added opinion always welcome.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Niki1 2]

I'm not qualified to have an opinion. It sounds right but in ecconomic matters, everything is part of everything os the rule of unindended consequences can really turn a good idea into a bad one.

But that reminds me of a quote for the "Great Quotes" thread.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[wmw999 2,565]

It's an idea with consequences. The US is pretty used to the thought that it can do whatever it wants to, but now it's not the biggest dog in all fights.

Consider: If China takes its toys, do you really think that all those jobs will move back to the US, or do you think they'll go to some other country with low-priced labor?

China wants to do whatever the fuck it feels like; kind of like many other countries. We're all interdependent, and only the largest can afford not to pay attention to the consequences of their actions. I'm not sure the US is that independent any more, particularly not if we want to maintain our current standard of living (which we've repeatedly proved we do).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[marks2065 0]

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It's an idea with consequences. The US is pretty used to the thought that it can do whatever it wants to, but now it's not the biggest dog in all fights.

Consider: If China takes its toys, do you really think that all those jobs will move back to the US, or do you think they'll go to some other country with low-priced labor?

China wants to do whatever the fuck it feels like; kind of like many other countries. We're all interdependent, and only the largest can afford not to pay attention to the consequences of their actions. I'm not sure the US is that independent any more, particularly not if we want to maintain our current standard of living (which we've repeatedly proved we do).

Wendy P.

I think if we do nothing and more jobs leave the US our standard of living will continue to drop.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Consider: If China takes its toys, do you really think that all those jobs will move back to the US, or do you think they'll go to some other country with low-priced labor?

The latter.

[wmw999 2,565]

American jobs are moving overseas because labor is cheaper over there. Manufacturers want to get the best profit, people want to pay the lowest prices for goods. And people who don't have a lot of money pretty much have to buy the lowest-priced goods.

So the problem isn't with China, then, is it -- it's with our own manufacturers and their desire for profit, and with our own consumers and their desire for cheap goods, right?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,092]

>I think if we do nothing and more jobs leave the US our standard of living
>will continue to drop.

And if we isolate ourselves, and put up barriers to trade, the US standard of living will continue to drop.

[Rstanley0312 1]

Quote

>I think if we do nothing and more jobs leave the US our standard of living
>will continue to drop.

And if we isolate ourselves, and put up barriers to trade, the US standard of living will continue to drop.

From a market standpoint China has seriously been keeping their currency low but it is a strategic move on their part. I know the unions are very excited about this but I am not sure they understand it fully. Wendy very good points and Bill I think you are right. I am not sure we are in a position to do something like this and I fear the negative will outweigh the positive.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[marks2065 0]

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American jobs are moving overseas because labor is cheaper over there. Manufacturers want to get the best profit, people want to pay the lowest prices for goods. And people who don't have a lot of money pretty much have to buy the lowest-priced goods.

So the problem isn't with China, then, is it -- it's with our own manufacturers and their desire for profit, and with our own consumers and their desire for cheap goods, right?

Wendy P.

no profit no business and that means no jobs. Profits are not evil they are needed to stay in business. Profit is not the problem, uneaqual trade caused by large wages here and more taxes here causing prices to go up and no longer being competitive is the problem. we can either lower saleries taxws and land cost or get other countries to increase their saleries taxws and land costs or we will continue to see manufacturing go overseas.

[wmw999 2,565]

Who gets to reduce wages and land cost? Taxes is up to the government, and what we expect from them, but if the government were to step in and reduce land costs and wages I believe that would be a problem.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,092]

> Profits are not evil they are needed to stay in business.

Right. By the same reasoning, though, LOW profits are not evil either.

>we can either lower saleries taxws and land cost . . .

Or produce things that other countries cannot.

>or get other countries to
>increase their saleries taxws and land costs

Well, that's not going to happen short of armed invasion. How would you react if the EU asked you to raise prices because their companies weren't competitive with you?

[airdvr 210]

Quote

The Smoot–Hawley Tariff or Hawley–Smoot Tariff (P.L. 71-361, officially named, the Tariff Act of 1930)[1] was an act signed into law on June 17, 1930, that raised U.S. tariffs on over 20,000 imported goods to record levels.[2]

The overall level tariffs under the Tariff were the second-highest in US history, exceeded only (by a small margin) by the Tariff of 1828[3] and the ensuing retaliatory tariffs by U.S. trading partners reduced American exports and imports by more than half.

Some economists have opined that the tariffs contributed to the severity of the Great Depression.[4][5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act

Yea I know it's wiki, but tarriffs are a symptom of a broken system.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 226]

Low profits are not worth working and gambling on. So the companies that are producing low profits get the axe and everyone is out of work.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,092]

>Low profits are not worth working and gambling on. So the companies that
>are producing low profits get the axe and everyone is out of work.

The companies that take the least profit can sell their goods for the least amount. That means they out-compete the more greedy companies. The greedy companies go out of business, and the more efficient companies remain and prosper (at least, as long as you leave tariffs, bailouts and unions out of the equation.)

That is, of course, capitalism in a nutshell.

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

>Low profits are not worth working and gambling on. So the companies that
>are producing low profits get the axe and everyone is out of work.

The companies that take the least profit can sell their goods for the least amount. That means they out-compete the more greedy companies. The greedy companies go out of business, and the more efficient companies remain and prosper (at least, as long as you leave tariffs, bailouts and unions out of the equation.)

That is, of course, capitalism in a nutshell.

. . . and something you disagree with?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,092]

>. . . and something you disagree with?

Is your question "do I disagree with capitalism?" I don't agree or disagree with it; it's an economic system.

Is your question "do I think that capitalism is the best system out there?" No, not in its pure form. Pure capitalism leads to monopolies, horrendous labor abuses, anti-competitive practices etc. However, regulated capitalism (with labor laws, anti-monopoly laws etc) works OK. It's not perfect by a long shot, but it's better than the other alternatives we've tried.

[marks2065 0]

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American jobs are moving overseas because labor is cheaper over there. Manufacturers want to get the best profit, people want to pay the lowest prices for goods. And people who don't have a lot of money pretty much have to buy the lowest-priced goods.

So the problem isn't with China, then, is it -- it's with our own manufacturers and their desire for profit, and with our own consumers and their desire for cheap goods, right?

Wendy P.

other issues are government related like epa regulations taxes and labor laws that other countryes don't follow. companies just want a level playing field to be able to compete.

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

American jobs are moving overseas because labor is cheaper over there. Manufacturers want to get the best profit, people want to pay the lowest prices for goods. And people who don't have a lot of money pretty much have to buy the lowest-priced goods.

So the problem isn't with China, then, is it -- it's with our own manufacturers and their desire for profit, and with our own consumers and their desire for cheap goods, right?

Wendy P.

other issues are government related like epa regulations taxes and labor laws that other countryes don't follow. companies just want a level playing field to be able to compete.

It is too bad that American companies do not consider the well being of the American people. The greatest threat to this country is the loss of our ability to have the jobs needed for a viable economy. It should be a priority National Security issue.

Its very shortsighted for American companies... if the people here have no money to buy the products they produce, it beomes a downward sprial to being in a similar position to third world shitholes.

[wmw999 2,565]

Oh I know; those darn regulations and labor laws. If we didn't have those, then costs could be cut a whole lot more. Think of what manufacturers wouldn't have to do -- safety equipment, fire control, monitoring -- that whole BP thing shouldn't have been even a blip, right?



Not every regulation is good, but neither is every businessman. And regulations keep the irresponsible ones in check.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[marks2065 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

American jobs are moving overseas because labor is cheaper over there. Manufacturers want to get the best profit, people want to pay the lowest prices for goods. And people who don't have a lot of money pretty much have to buy the lowest-priced goods.

So the problem isn't with China, then, is it -- it's with our own manufacturers and their desire for profit, and with our own consumers and their desire for cheap goods, right?

Wendy P.

other issues are government related like epa regulations taxes and labor laws that other countryes don't follow. companies just want a level playing field to be able to compete.

It is too bad that American companies do not consider the well being of the American people. The greatest threat to this country is the loss of our ability to have the jobs needed for a viable economy. It should be a priority National Security issue.

Its very shortsighted for American companies... if the people here have no money to buy the products they produce, it beomes a downward sprial to being in a similar position to third world shitholes.

companies are thinking, cheaper production over seas = lower cost product. It is the government here doesn't seem to understand that. now that many conpanies have set up over seas they don't need to care about the US workforce.

Priority National Security issue is the US governments concern not the companies.

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Quote

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American jobs are moving overseas because labor is cheaper over there. Manufacturers want to get the best profit, people want to pay the lowest prices for goods. And people who don't have a lot of money pretty much have to buy the lowest-priced goods.

So the problem isn't with China, then, is it -- it's with our own manufacturers and their desire for profit, and with our own consumers and their desire for cheap goods, right?

Wendy P.

other issues are government related like epa regulations taxes and labor laws that other countryes don't follow. companies just want a level playing field to be able to compete.

It is too bad that American companies do not consider the well being of the American people. The greatest threat to this country is the loss of our ability to have the jobs needed for a viable economy. It should be a priority National Security issue.

Its very shortsighted for American companies... if the people here have no money to buy the products they produce, it beomes a downward sprial to being in a similar position to third world shitholes.

companies are thinking, cheaper production over seas = lower cost product. It is the government here doesn't seem to understand that. now that many conpanies have set up over seas they don't need to care about the US workforce.

Priority National Security issue is the US governments concern not the companies.

Problem with that line of thinking is we aren't the big dogs on the block anymore. This is like me calling the bank that holds my mortgage and telling them to fuck off. We owe China so much money. I don't want to see what happens if we miss a payment. Hopefully they only repo the West coast.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[marks2065 0]

Quote

Oh I know; those darn regulations and labor laws. If we didn't have those, then costs could be cut a whole lot more. Think of what manufacturers wouldn't have to do -- safety equipment, fire control, monitoring -- that whole BP thing shouldn't have been even a blip, right?



Not every regulation is good, but neither is every businessman. And regulations keep the irresponsible ones in check.

Wendy P.

I didn't say they were good or bad, the debate I was talking about was a level playing field for companies to compete while staying here in the US. All the regulations here make it cheaper over there.

Instead of free trade we should have equal trade when our regulations are maintained. meaning foriegn companies that sell here in the US should follow our regulations.

[marks2065 0]

Quote

Priority National Security issue is the US governments concern not the companies.

Problem with that line of thinking is we aren't the big dogs on the block anymore. This is like me calling the bank that holds my mortgage and telling them to fuck off. We owe China so much money. I don't want to see what happens if we miss a payment. Hopefully they only repo the West coast.

why should companies sacrifice because the US government fucked us with all this debt? the government needs to fix their issues. the companies will just move out until the situation is fixed.

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

Priority National Security issue is the US governments concern not the companies.

Problem with that line of thinking is we aren't the big dogs on the block anymore. This is like me calling the bank that holds my mortgage and telling them to fuck off. We owe China so much money. I don't want to see what happens if we miss a payment. Hopefully they only repo the West coast.

why should companies sacrifice because the US government fucked us with all this debt? the government needs to fix their issues. the companies will just move out until the situation is fixed.

Fine... great idea... shows great patriotism.


Personally if they are going to do that I think they should not be allowed back in after the problem gets fixed... fuck em.

[billvon 3,092]

>Instead of free trade we should have equal trade when our regulations are
>maintained. meaning foriegn companies that sell here in the US should
>follow our regulations.

So instead of a tariff, you would want a ban on all foreign trade (since no country follows another's regulations.)

There would no faster way to destroy our economy.