rhys 0
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rehmwa 2
QuoteListening to other people who have found something that has worked for them can be very helpful. How else do we learn?
that's totally different that pressing and arguing about one's beliefs with someone also convinced otherwise
for that matter - if someone is questioning, they are certainly free to go and find out what they need from anyone - also different from someone actively pushing their beliefs (disbeliefs) on others against their will or interest
I see personal gains from both positions - depending on the individual - I just don't care to hear them bicker about it when they are so uncomfortable with their beliefs that aren't quietly confident about it
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
billvon 3,112
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>I just don't care to hear them bicker about it when they are so
>uncomfortable with their beliefs that aren't quietly confident about it
That often annoys me as well. But I also think we are all much better off because a few brilliant, wise and confident people were _not_ quiet about what they believed.
>uncomfortable with their beliefs that aren't quietly confident about it
That often annoys me as well. But I also think we are all much better off because a few brilliant, wise and confident people were _not_ quiet about what they believed.
skipbelt 0
we stand on shoulders of giants , attribution to follow !
Meso 38
Oh for Christ's sake...
Even after my lengthy reasoning on why Agnosticism is flawed and the semantics within the labels people are still wanting to be called Agnostics.
Fat Mike would be very disappointed in you Rhys ;)
You don't need to be 100% sure that there is no God to be Atheist, no one can be 100% on anything, you just need to look at the evidence and see that it is the most logical conclusion. As mentioned befoooore, you can't say that there is no trolls, unicorns etc- but logic will allow you to accept that there is no such thing, and through this you will accept that it is so unlikely you will not believe in it. Someone asks you if you believe in unicorns or trolls you don't say "well... there could be.. I don't want to say there isn't because there just may be...". Well if you do say that, you're a very special person. God is just another one of these mythical creatures, no need to create a special 'unsure' zone just for him.
Most 'Agnostics' could choose to be Atheist at any time without really changing the way they think. But Agnostic is just a much more cushioned term, less hate from the Christians for it, more socially acceptable. I called myself Agnostic for a number of years, until I realized that my beliefs were exactly the same as an Atheist.
Not to mention the flaws in true Agnostic thinking, if one is unsure of God- surely with the written tales of what would happen to you if God does exist and you don't believe you will take your risk and just go Christian. I know that if I thought there was even a 10% chance of God being real I would rock into a religion pretty quickly, because it would be stupid not to. 90% you're right on believing he isn't real, nothing happens. 10% you're right that he is real, you burn in hell for eternity. No loss if you fuck up on the one side- I'd go Christian and worship the shit out of that God than rather take a 1/10 gamble on eternal torture.
Even after my lengthy reasoning on why Agnosticism is flawed and the semantics within the labels people are still wanting to be called Agnostics.
Fat Mike would be very disappointed in you Rhys ;)
You don't need to be 100% sure that there is no God to be Atheist, no one can be 100% on anything, you just need to look at the evidence and see that it is the most logical conclusion. As mentioned befoooore, you can't say that there is no trolls, unicorns etc- but logic will allow you to accept that there is no such thing, and through this you will accept that it is so unlikely you will not believe in it. Someone asks you if you believe in unicorns or trolls you don't say "well... there could be.. I don't want to say there isn't because there just may be...". Well if you do say that, you're a very special person. God is just another one of these mythical creatures, no need to create a special 'unsure' zone just for him.
Most 'Agnostics' could choose to be Atheist at any time without really changing the way they think. But Agnostic is just a much more cushioned term, less hate from the Christians for it, more socially acceptable. I called myself Agnostic for a number of years, until I realized that my beliefs were exactly the same as an Atheist.
Not to mention the flaws in true Agnostic thinking, if one is unsure of God- surely with the written tales of what would happen to you if God does exist and you don't believe you will take your risk and just go Christian. I know that if I thought there was even a 10% chance of God being real I would rock into a religion pretty quickly, because it would be stupid not to. 90% you're right on believing he isn't real, nothing happens. 10% you're right that he is real, you burn in hell for eternity. No loss if you fuck up on the one side- I'd go Christian and worship the shit out of that God than rather take a 1/10 gamble on eternal torture.
rhys 0
QuoteOh for Christ's sake...
QuoteEven after my lengthy reasoning on why Agnosticism is flawed and the semantics within the labels people are still wanting to be called Agnostics.
Fat Mike would be very disappointed in you Rhys ;)
You are killing me...
To me it is purely about semantics, agnogsticism is simply an umbrella label for those that beleive in 'something'.
For me it has nothing to do with people, or morals or how we trat each other. it is about the... whats the word for it...
Life, spark, energy, conciousness? ...that flows through our bodies.
There is more to life than just our solid and liquid structures. this is not explained or understood very well.
Maybe I am not agnostic, but atheism is not a term I can relate to.
Although I do not like the term god, if feel there is something that is responible for our conciousness.
QuoteYou don't need to be 100% sure that there is no God to be Atheist
Quotea·the·ist
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
By definition that is what an atheist is, if you could convince me otherwise then I could come around, but thi is purly semantics at this point.
QuoteNot to mention the flaws in true Agnostic thinking, if one is unsure of God- surely with the written tales of what would happen to you if God does exist and you don't believe you will take your risk and just go Christian. I know that if I thought there was even a 10% chance of God being real I would rock into a religion pretty quickly, because it would be stupid not to. 90% you're right on believing he isn't real, nothing happens. 10% you're right that he is real, you burn in hell for eternity. No loss if you fuck up on the one side- I'd go Christian and worship the shit out of that God than rather take a 1/10 gamble on eternal torture.
now you have me pissing myself.
I in no way believe in god as christians tell us.
As I have said before if human being are at the centre of the story, then they can shove thier myth up their ass.
I respect life, nature, our earth and that what truly provides for us.
jeebus and moses and mohammed and all those wankers are just bullshitting cunts.
There, that should pretty much secure me a slot in hell if I am wrong.
haha
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
skipbelt 0
morals come from God , not man. if it was up to man it would be might makes right , and only the strong survive . and who is man to tell another man what's right ? without God it's a free for all !
rhys 0
Quotemorals come from God , not man. if it was up to man it would be might makes right , and only the strong survive . and who is man to tell another man what's right ? without God it's a free for all !
So you are christian?
In Africa I had to explain to a Christian Church youth organiser ( we were skydiving their christian volunteers) why I wanted him to pick up the plastic bottles he swept out of the door of the van with his foot.
First he stared at me blankly when I said "pick them up and put them back in the van", then he said "why", then I said you can ask your god why.
He was awefully confused, yet he has the audacity to teach morals.
Morals come from the inside, I have quite a concience. I feel bad easily, that feeling that flows through me is not put there by a man, and in a way I agree with you. But what I consider to be god or whatever it is that I beleive in, is somewhat different to what you beleive to be god.
Assuming you are a Christian of some type I propose that your god is pure myth and is imposing on the real entity that we should respect...
...nature!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
Meso 38
Morals come from God? Here I was being ignorant and thinking that morals came from the idea that we share and relate to feelings and through that which is empathy, we choose to generally not pursue actions which cause others pain.
But now I'm just confused, as you're obviously right.
I wonder why it is then that damage to parts of the brain can cause one to lack empathy and turn into a so-called monster. Maybe they just get the God knocked out of their brains.
Or why dogs and other animals have been witnessed to save other dogs from potential death and display forms of empathy which could be indicative of morals. Maybe that's just the results of all their Sunday school teachings.
Yep, that's it without God it's free for all. Which is why Godless societies all butcher each other and have a history of public murders- oh wait... That's the religious societies... my bad.
But now I'm just confused, as you're obviously right.
I wonder why it is then that damage to parts of the brain can cause one to lack empathy and turn into a so-called monster. Maybe they just get the God knocked out of their brains.
Or why dogs and other animals have been witnessed to save other dogs from potential death and display forms of empathy which could be indicative of morals. Maybe that's just the results of all their Sunday school teachings.
Yep, that's it without God it's free for all. Which is why Godless societies all butcher each other and have a history of public murders- oh wait... That's the religious societies... my bad.
Prior23 0
QuoteQuoteAgnosticism is a pointless position.
I'll bite; can you explain !
It seems you are saying that one must be sure of the origin of life whatever their stance.
It seems to me that we have 3 real options;
1, Creationism (of some genre )
2, Atheism
3, Agnosticism
Agnosticism is the only option there you do not have to be conclusive of what you believe.
It seems to me the other options are pure arrogance as it is not possible for anyone to know everything.
But I guess that is the beauty of being able to have your own opinion...
...isn't it.
Explain how an atheist has to be conclusive?? Atheism is the least conclusive of the three, as an atheist you have no burden of proof. I don't have to prove to anyone that there is no god, I am simply a human being that goes about my life for the sake of humanity. I have not seen a "god" throughout my everyday life any much more than I have seen the true Easter bunny. If someone comes to me with proof and evidence of a supreme being and it seems to be inexcusable, I'll buy into it if it can be proven.
No religion has simply met the burden of proof for me or any of the other millions of atheists out there, so atheism is not a position to hold, it is merely just a label people put on those who reject the claims made by all of the worlds religions.
B.A.S.E. #1734
rehmwa 2
Quoteit is merely just a label people put on those who reject the claims made by all of the worlds religions.
so an active action to reject other's beliefs is a belief in itself
just ignoring it and living your life requires no choice in the matter on something so insubstantial as to just not matter
I suspect what I call agnostic and what others call atheism isn't a substantial difference. semantics
but it is good to separate ourselves from the fanatical atheists (as few as there are) that are just assholes about it. It is religion for them if it generates any passion at all
nope, give me agnosticism, it doesn't require judgment where one is not needed
rhys - mostly this is the only topic where I agree with you, but you still have some level of spirituality in your take on it that I don't agree with. Karma/spirituality/communing with nature is pretty much a religious foundation IMO - just devoid of the ritualism that's used to bind members to leadership.
I have no issue with us being biological machines and chemical factories - and nothing more - it's amazing enough at that.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
wmw999 2,587
Interestingly enough, I do believe in God, and I completely agree with this statement.QuoteI have no issue with us being biological machines and chemical factories - and nothing more - it's amazing enough at that.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
beowulf 1
QuoteInterestingly enough, I do believe in God, and I completely agree with this statement.QuoteI have no issue with us being biological machines and chemical factories - and nothing more - it's amazing enough at that.
Wendy P.
That is pretty odd. If you agree with that statment then how does the idea of a soul fit in with it?
wmw999 2,587
To me, God represents a connection to forces we don't know or understand. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of humans are effectively blind to (technical term alert) stuff that is out there. Some can sense it, as some blind people seem to be able to sense color without seeing it.
Calling it God, and saying it's good, and saying that some people have a greater connection to it works for me. Calling something a soul is fine; I don't think that Hell is under our feet, and I don't think that Heaven is just beyond the sun (or wherever it is these days)
Wendy P.
Calling it God, and saying it's good, and saying that some people have a greater connection to it works for me. Calling something a soul is fine; I don't think that Hell is under our feet, and I don't think that Heaven is just beyond the sun (or wherever it is these days)
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
beowulf 1
Your explaination really didn't explain much regarding a soul. Do you think there is life after death or something of a person that lives on?
wmw999 2,587
I don't know. It says so in the Bible, but all I can impact is what happens on earth, so I'll work on that for now.
Please don't try to tell me what I believe or can call myself now.
Wendy P.
Please don't try to tell me what I believe or can call myself now.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
I'll bite; can you explain !
It seems you are saying that one must be sure of the origin of life whatever their stance.
It seems to me that we have 3 real options;
1, Creationism (of some genre )
2, Atheism
3, Agnosticism
Agnosticism is the only option there you do not have to be conclusive of what you believe.
It seems to me the other options are pure arrogance as it is not possible for anyone to know everything.
But I guess that is the beauty of being able to have your own opinion...
...isn't it.
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