Israel used 'incredible violence' against Gaza aid flotilla

[Amazon 7]

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WOW.


So many extremists on here who deny facts for the sake of Israel...Oh wait that has been the US stance from the get go.

To all the blind:
Facts- The Ship was under a Turkish flag in international waters. Israel did not have the right to board PERIOD. Get over your bull shit and fucked up moral gymnastics.

I don’t care if they came on the boat with lolly pops. If a thief enters your home you have every right to beat the fuck out of him and if he shoots you! guess what the thief is still the one who broke the law. He is the initial person who broke the law by entering a property that he does not have permission to be in.


Any one who thinks of the IDF (Amazon) as a honorable military force has a fucked up view on honor. They are the most violent have been known to kill man, woman, and child. I am sure if one of these kids was Little Miky smith your attitudes would change. Its unfortunate that the same outrage is not experienced when brown civilians get killed.

Its actually fucking disgusting to watch people make excuses for child murderers.

I find it equally ridiculous that so many of you expect the world to just take Israelis word on the situation or take Israeli account as gospel and none bias, but the actual international groups who are designed to be independent are some how too bias.

No matter who is saying it your denying the facts that Israel has, is, and will most likely continue to break international laws.

That is facts you can not deny.

Now go twist and turn your “standards” till you can make sure your right regardless of the facts.

Poor Darius

So much anger..... I am willing to look at the facts from other sides... but when the REST of the STORY comes in.... I base my attitude on the sum total of the reports. Try it sometime.. it might help your blood pressure issues.

IT IS A FUCKING WAR ZONE..there is a DECLARED BLOCKADE of GAZA since HAMAS keeps ATTACKING ISRAEL>.... you're buddies there on the ship DECLARED they were in a martyrdom operation.. the rest of the innocents on the ship did not know they had radical islamic shahids among them.

Until HAMAS and the PLO finally decide to make peace... and quit using their own population as pawns to rile up the rubes in the rest of the world into backing their heinous use of innocents... I say send em ALL to ALLAH and let him sort them out.

[skipbelt 0]

the nile , but say it like denial , not just a river in egypt . israel , ally , arab world that think us is great satan , enemy , satan , say it like satin !

[obelixtim 150]

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So much anger..... I am willing to look at the facts from other sides... but when the REST of the STORY comes in.... I base my attitude on the sum total of the reports. Try it sometime.. it might help your blood pressure issues.

IT IS A FUCKING WAR ZONE..

It is NOT!!!.

There is no war zone in international waters, and the ships were civilian, Turkish (a friend of Israel at that point) and Irish flagged. So far as I am aware there is no formal declaration of war between any of these nations and Israel.

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the rest of the innocents on the ship did not know they had radical islamic shahids among
them.

And yet you and other apologists are quite happy to say they were Hamas and PLO and about to wage war on Israel.

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Until HAMAS and the PLO finally decide to make peace...

How about Israel backing off a little and ceasing to treat these people as sub human.

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to rile up the rubes in the rest of the world

Thank you for making judgements on people you don't even know. and whose motivation for supporting the people in Gaza is based solely on the desire to see peace in the region and do not like to see Israel behaving in the same ruthless way the Nazis did.

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into backing their heinous use of innocents...

But its OK in your eyes for the IDF to fire thousands of white phosphorus shells into the same innocent civilians. Do you know what WP does?.

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I say send em ALL to ALLAH and let him sort them out.

And that says it all about you. Exactly the same level of fundamentalism and ignorance you accuse Hamas of being......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[falxori 0]

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Facts- The Ship was under a Turkish flag in international waters. Israel did not have the right to board PERIOD

Wrong.
A naval blockade can be enforced in international waters and even before the ship has entered the blockade area if the ship has declared its intentions to run the blockade and it was warned not to do so. Since these guys said they'll run the blockade repeatedly and since Israel gave them more than enough warnings, there is nothing illegal about it.

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I don’t care if they came on the boat with lolly pops.

you may not care but if you come with lolly pops its a good indication that you didn't intend to hurt anyone (not to mention murder anyone)

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outrage is not experienced when brown civilians get killed.

now you're just being racist. I don't know how many Israelis and Palestinians you've actually met but skin color is rarely a good differentiator.

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No matter who is saying it your denying the facts that Israel has, is, and will most likely continue to break international laws.

That is facts you can not deny.

I can and I am. Israel has not broken any law here as the blockade is legal and running it is cause for a takeover.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[turtlespeed 226]

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once again - the israelis have won the war. they have their own state. they will be able to keep it. but people like you are urging them on and on until they will make a strategic error (should hitler have invaded russia) and, because of people like you, they will pay the price for over reaching. it won't be nice and i'll be thinking of the israeli friends who will be stuck there while you're laughing in the mirror.

. . . and as a missle with a nice warhead flys over the border and blows up, sorry, murders some people on the Isreali side, what should they say then? "Oops, sorry, should have seen that one coming, must still be our fault!"

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

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There is no war zone in international waters, and the ships were civilian, Turkish (a friend of Israel at that point) and Irish flagged. So far as I am aware there is no formal declaration of war between any of these nations and Israel.

Any Flag can be flown on any ship. Legitamancy would have needed to be verified to be sure that the correct flag was being flown, right?

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the rest of the innocents on the ship did not know they had radical islamic shahids among them.

That is not only highly improbable, but even more unlikely. Are you trying to say that the people that were on the boat were not vetted by the ones in charge of the operation?

If that is indeed the case then the responsibility falls on the organizers.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

MAKE PEACE..then HAMAS supporters wont have to have such bleeding hearts messing up the place.

Hamas seems to be able to fool the fools ALL of the time

Education on the conflict would help you A LOT

Not that that will actually happen

[Kennedy 0]

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they had paintball guns but they also had pistols, rifles, helicopters, communications, plenty of backup (a whole army) and they should have had the common sense not to open fire but to withdraw until the ship was out of international waters. it was a f**k up all round. blaming the victims is stupid and makes you look inhumane.

IT'S A FUCKING BLOCKADE!! They don't need to wait until it is out of international waters, get that through your skull. Do you think the US blockade of Cuba during the missile crisis was only applied in US coastal waters? I really don't understand why you can't figure it out. Several posters have tried to explain law and history of blockades to you. Are you intentionally ignoring the facts here?

I do'nt know if you've ever been involved in a violent life threatening encounter, but there isn't always the option to withdraw. When you're on a ship, expecting passive resistance, and you get mobbed, beaten, clubbed, stabbed, and shot, you don't always have the oppurtunity to retreat.

Also, don't pretend the flotilla was just about getting aid to Gaza. They could have done that without ever confronting the blockade. They could have gone through Egypt or through Israel. THEY WANTED TO CAUSE A CONFLICT.

If there were any victims, I might be concerned about them. There are no victims here. The flotilla folks just wanted a media circus. They accomplished their goal. Some of the flotilla folks wanted martyrdom. They got their wishes, too.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[obelixtim 150]

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MAKE PEACE..then HAMAS supporters wont have to have such bleeding hearts messing up the place.

Hamas seems to be able to fool the fools ALL of the timeCrazyCrazy

Hamas has had NO influence on me. At all. I have supported Israels right to exist all my life. But its actions have caused me to reassess my POV. And I resent very much being labelled a fool.

I react to what I see on live TV...like WP shells bursting all over Gaza for weeks. Footage of wrecked schools, hospitals, and essential infrastructure like sewage and water plants. Reports from UN personnel ON THE GROUND.

Between 1100 - 1400 deaths (mostly civilian) in Gaza, against 13 Israeli deaths. Most of the bleeding was done by the people of Gaza.

Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut.

Exactly the same overreaction seen with the flotilla. No Israelis died, yet the victims who did are labelled as terrorists...

But you keep on defending the indefensible. It obviously makes you feel good.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[turtlespeed 226]

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Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut.

Exactly the same overreaction seen with the flotilla. No Israelis died, yet the victims who did are labelled as terrorists...

But you keep on defending the indefensible. It obviously makes you feel good.

Change the scenario.

Your neighborhood:
A group of extremists are hole up in your local school. They are taking pot shots at your house and your family.

The cops on your side of the block can't do anything because there is a juristictional boundry. The LEOs on the other side of the block WON'T do anything because it is their SOP to not get involved.

You have a very large assortment of weapons.

Do you:
A) Use the weapon with the highest probablitity to end the situation
B) Use the least amout of force you have available and hope they go away

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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Hamas has had NO influence on me.

SHEEP SHIT!!!!!!( was going to say BULLSHIT but reconsidered)

MAKE PEACE Then all of the perpetually fooled can quit bellyaching about THEIR war

[muff528 3]

This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now. This thread provides a great example of why negotiations will never work in solving this problem. No common ground will be found until the state of Israel is dissolved. If all of the "occupied territories" are returned to the aggressor countries, Israel will still be condemned by "the world" for it's existence and for defending itself. My evidence is that Israel existed without these territories for 20 years while continually being attacked and the fair, even-handed, justice-driven, parasitic UN did nothing more than direct "harsh language" at the attackers.

[obelixtim 150]

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Any Flag can be flown on any ship. Legitamancy would have needed to be verified to be sure that the correct flag was being flown, right?

The ships left Turkey and Malta under the same flags they were flying when the incident happened. This was on television in the days before they left. I'm not aware of Hams having a navy, or ships of any kind in fact.

In international waters there is a law that confers the right of free and unimpeded passage. Had Israel waited till the ships approached their waters they had the right to fire a shot across their bows to stop them, and if the ships then proceeded, to fire on them.

There was NO NEED to board, and if the soldiers hadn't tried that, there would have been no incident, and no deaths.

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the rest of the innocents on the ship did not know they had radical islamic shahids among them.

That is not only highly improbable, but even more unlikely. Are you trying to say that the people that were on the boat were not vetted by the ones in charge of the operation?

If that is indeed the case then the responsibility falls on the organizers.

That wasn't my quote. I'm pretty sure the people were vetted.
If the commandoes came down the ropes firing guns in the dark, paintball or real, it would be natural for the crews to put up some sort of defense.

The fact that they used materials to hand for that defense shows the defense wasn't premeditated, otherwise the soldiers would have suffered more casualties. The only gun the guys on the ship had came from an Israeli commando.

And any commando who allows his weapon to be taken from him in such a situation would surely face court martial in most armed forces.

The dead guys weren't around to defend their actions after the event. Who said they were terrorists?. Israel?.

Of course they would say that in the attempt to defend the indefensible. Thats what they ALWAYS say.

The event was a disaster for all parties, Israel included.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Amazon 7]

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This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now. This thread provides a great example of why negotiations will never work in solving this problem. No common ground will be found until the state of Israel is dissolved. If all of the "occupied territories" are returned to the aggressor countries, Israel will still be condemned by "the world" for it's existence and for defending itself. My evidence is that Israel existed without these territories for 20 years while continually being attacked and the fair, even-handed, justice-driven, parasitic UN did nothing more than direct "harsh language" at the attackers.

Most of the FOOLED.. do not realize the root of the problem.. nor do they wish to.

This problem could have been solved by all of the Arab Brotherhood back in 1948 by abiding by the UN resolutions.... and like dumbasses they keep doing the same thing over and over and over... expecting different results.

Egypt finally got it.....

Jordan finally got it....

The REST of the muslim world who supports WAR and the extermination of ALL jews in the middle east ( just as they did during WWII (Look up the Mufti of Jerusalem et al) will NEVER get it. ONLY Allah will be able to figure it out for them.

[obelixtim 150]

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Hamas has had NO influence on me.


SHEEP SHIT!!!!!!( was going to say BULLSHIT but reconsidered)

Um....how can you possibly know what influences me. I've stated clearly that I'm only reacting to events I've seen on TV......BBC, CNN, etc.

I'm not aware that Hamas controls TV content. Maybe they do and I've been completely fooled.

Can you not argue your point rationally?. I certainly don't see any evidence of it, just personal slurs. And repeated parroting of a single POV.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[obelixtim 150]

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Most of the FOOLED..

Give us a break!!. The only one who has been fooled hee certainly isn't me.

Such statements make you look really stupid. People have a brain and can rationalise their arguments.

Have you ever visited Auschwitz btw?.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[skipbelt 0]

seemed like an israeli victory , hamas probed a perimeter and were repelled , they seem shy to repeat the endeavor !

[turtlespeed 226]

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This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now. This thread provides a great example of why negotiations will never work in solving this problem. No common ground will be found until the state of Israel is dissolved. If all of the "occupied territories" are returned to the aggressor countries, Israel will still be condemned by "the world" for it's existence and for defending itself. My evidence is that Israel existed without these territories for 20 years while continually being attacked and the fair, even-handed, justice-driven, parasitic UN did nothing more than direct "harsh language" at the attackers.

In order for the conflicts to stop, BOTH the State and the NATION of Israel would have to be dissolved.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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Hamas has had NO influence on me.


SHEEP SHIT!!!!!!( was going to say BULLSHIT but reconsidered)

Um....how can you possibly know what influences me. I've stated clearly that I'm only reacting to events I've seen on TV......BBC, CNN, etc.

I'm not aware that Hamas controls TV content. Maybe they do and I've been completely fooled.

Can you not argue your point rationally?. I certainly don't see any evidence of it, just personal slurs. And repeated parroting of a single POV.

Your posts manage to do a good job of showing your support.

We argued this whole issue back months ago...

The perpetually fooled will listen to the TV as edited by people with an agenda that mirrors the same sheepshit that the ILL named UN HR Commission excretes...They take NOTHING that goes against their own made up minds.... and if you believe all you see on BBC and CNN and Al GIZZeera on this matter... I feel really sorry for you.

[Skyrad 0]

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WOW.

Wow what? Do you think that there is any news agency on the face of the planet that hasn't got an agenda? Do you really believe that there is any news organ that doesn't have mixed reporting?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[turtlespeed 226]

I have noticed in your several replies since the video was posted that you have no comments regarding the "Lets all be martyrs" video.

Is that just because it doesn't fit into your belief system, or is there another reason?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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Most of the FOOLED..

Give us a break!!. The only one who has been fooled hee certainly isn't me.

Such statements make you look really stupid. People have a brain and can rationalise their arguments.

Have you ever visited Auschwitz btw?.

Nope never made it to Poland....

Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation..

[Skyrad 0]

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This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now

Well there a suprise

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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I have noticed in your several replies since the video was posted that you have no comments regarding the "Lets all be martyrs" video.

Is that just because it doesn't fit into your belief system, or is there another reason?

You noticed that too huh....I really have to wonder about the NEWS as available in NZ... considering local theorists who show up here

[skipbelt 0]

been to israel , and turkey !