Economy still sucks, unemployment is still high, yet the rich just keep getting richer.

[Lucky... 0]

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And you're still unable to make your point; failed 3 times.

I'm loneley in denial land?

Why, you have so much company and your one-liners are enjoyed by all. Bill just basically said, "why even show up, your contributions are worthless."

Seriously, actually look something up and make an argument rather than just jump on someone's back and ride.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Why, you have so much company and your one-liners are enjoyed by all. Bill just basically said, "why even show up, your contributions are worthless."

Consider the source and the bias . . .

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Seriously, actually look something up and make an argument rather than just jump on someone's back and ride.

Why - you don't listen to reason anyway. Why would I waste my time with you?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Lucky... 0]

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Why, you have so much company and your one-liners are enjoyed by all. Bill just basically said, "why even show up, your contributions are worthless."

Consider the source and the bias . . .

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Seriously, actually look something up and make an argument rather than just jump on someone's back and ride.

Why - you don't listen to reason anyway. Why would I waste my time with you?

You never post anything but cheerleading rhetoric. You don't go to a source, cite and post anything even errant, just climb on backs of other neo-cons and cheer. It's a joke reading your nothingness.

[turtlespeed 226]

I would say the same - but what I have read isn't evena as funny as it is rediculous.

And that is when I grace you with the pleasure of my reading of your post.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 23]

You dont get it

All this is to you is, take it from those that have more than you

period

Still sick?

You many time posted I gotta go to work and I will respond later

Last time I asked you said you had the flu? Still have it?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Maybe some of them worked hard, risked loss, and earned it? I dunno, just sayin'.

How do I put this . . .

Nobody is paid for how HARD they work. In fact, I think you'll find that the people in our society that work the hardest, tend to be paid the least.

People are paid, more or less, according to how much power they have to negotiate with whoever is purchasing their services. HARD doesn't enter into the equation. We're all just commodities being bought and sold.

If you've never seen anything to the contrary, then I'm afraid you've had some pretty sad workplaces. Or government or union ones.

In the tech world, results matter. Those who work harder (not necessarily longer) and get better results, or do more training on their own to learn new material, are significantly more productive than clock punchers. When bonuses are paid, or layoffs are done, you think that is ignored? My bottom line over the past 4 years has been significantly better than some of my peers.

Is it a pure cause and effect? Of course not. Strong negotiation can get you more pay. But that said, in a layoff situation the highest paid better still be delivering higher results, or they will be sent out the door.

For the self employed, it's a direct correlation. If you don't do it, no one will.

For the new CEO, it's the same. Lack of direction from the top cripples a company and its bottom line.

[quade 4]

I'm not going to go point by point on this but . . .

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For the new CEO, it's the same. Lack of direction from the top cripples a company and its bottom line.

Believe it or not, a lot of time direction from the top is also what cripples a company and its bottom line.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out.

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my party wants to better the general populous

Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person.

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Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits.

I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor.

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Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly.

Nope, wrong again Francis.

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I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered.

Like I said, you were just guessing.

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Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect.

Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Let’s say my business has a gross revenue of $200,000. Labor costs are $120,000, equipment costs were $20,000....

Your writer, and you, assume that only higher taxes will cause the business owner to invest. Sorry, but that just isn't the case. Regardless of level of taxation a business owner is always looking to lower his tax burden however he can. He is just as likely to invest in new equipment and pay Christmas bonuses at 5% tax rate as he is at 50% tax rate.
By the logic proposed by your story, no business owner is happy until he has zero income.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 3,119]

>Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they
>have more money coming in.

They also do better when they get more infrastructure support. Radio stations do better when they have clear frequencies to transmit on. Airlines do better when ATC can get their aircraft to their destinations without delays, reroutings or gate holds. Shipping companies do better when their trucks can navigate the highways without damage. All that takes money, collected via taxes.

So not that simple - not by a long shot.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they
>have more money coming in.

They also do better when they get more infrastructure support. Radio stations do better when they have clear frequencies to transmit on. Airlines do better when ATC can get their aircraft to their destinations without delays, reroutings or gate holds. Shipping companies do better when their trucks can navigate the highways without damage. All that takes money, collected via taxes.

So not that simple - not by a long shot.

Actually, Bill, it really is that simple. It is a very sinmple concept.

Infrastructure is needed by any society. As you said, taxes pay for that. So are other services the government provides.

But taxes are also used to support millions of people who won't work.
Taxes are used to house and pamper criminals who enjoy a better standard of living than our poor.
Taxes are used to pay into retirement programs for public employees that are not available to the general public.
Taxes are used to pay retirement to elected officials after they serve only a few years.
These are just a few examples of many that could be eliminated so the government could operate more efficiently and keep taxes down to a reasonable level for everyone. I abhore wasteful spending. Governments, especially the US Federal government, are cesspools of wasteful spending.

If you want to give the government more money in addition to city income tax, state income tax, federal income tax, plus all property taxes, sales taxes, etc, ...go right ahead. That is your right.
Just don't expect everyone else to be overjoyed when you ask them to do the same.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 3,119]

>Infrastructure is needed by any society. As you said, taxes pay for that.

Agreed.

>But taxes are also used to support millions of people who won't work. (and other bad things)

Also agreed.

>These are just a few examples of many that could be eliminated so the
>government could operate more efficiently and keep taxes down to a
>reasonable level for everyone.

Agreed a third time.

However, your statement: "People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. Simple" is still not simple. To use a very basic example, Fedex would do much worse if they paid a lot less in taxes - but then did not have maintained highways to ship goods on. That's an example of how reducing taxes a company pays would, in the long run, damage or destroy it. Indeed, if you then INCREASED their taxes to fix the highways, they would then do better.

So we have to figure out how to use that tax money wisely - how to maintain that infrastructure that we all depend on while not spending too much money on nonsense, and then we need to set tax policies so that we get the money needed for such expenses while not doing undue damage to companies (or people.) And that is far from simple, as history has demonstrated.

[TheBachelor 5]

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And if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make < and the expired tax increase won't affect you; care to address the issue or just more RW bravado?

I'm single, have my own business, and make over 250K. These tax increases aren't going to affect me. They are going to hurt people who make less than I do. Here's why:

Until now, I've paid more thanmy share of taxes (over 40 percent of my AGI, 100K+/year), but with these upcoming increases, I've gone to my CPA, and asked how I can shield myself from the increases. He has a perfectly legal method that I'm going to use. The kicker: I can't hire anyone else. So if I have the need for additional staff, I won't hire -- it would cost me too much.

So there you go: I'll actually be saving more money (and paying less tax) next year, but I won't be hiring.

Love your explanation; complete with a secret that you won't disclose. The million dollar question: WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME?

And for your explanation as to not hire more people; DUH, BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY AND YOU WOULD PAY EVEN MORE TAXES. Hey, here's a clue: FUCKING SPEND MONEY ON COMPANY ASSETS THAT WILL DO 3 THINGS:

- write down your AGI

- increase the value of your businesss

- make your business more profitable

So stay hiden behind the veil of secrecy to keep your anti-tax rant seemingly viable, or tell us the general type of your business you're in and what the CPA told you to do in addition to not hiring more.

Also, if you don't hire more, your competition will, as in free enmterprise, demand-supply you don't dictate need, the consumer does, so the people you don't hire using your secret reason will be picked up by your competition and they will be smart/ingenious enough to grow their business and hire.

I didn't give details for fear of misquoting what my CPA said, and being attacked based on that. I should have known I'd be attacked anyway. So here is the essence of what I'm going to do: I'll set up a special retirement or deferred compensation plan that allows me to put away large amounts of money pre-tax. I currently have a SEP-IRA plan that allow up to 25% of my salary, but with plans like that, you need to pass what the IRS calls "non-discriminatory testing," which basically says that highly-compensated people in the company cannot receive more of a benefit from such a plan than lowly-compensated people. So if I have employees, I have to give them the same thing I get, which I won't do.

Say my business puts $150K a year into such a plan for me. That puts my AGI below the limit, so I'll be "middle class" and get the benefit of those tax cuts being retained. I'll defer over $60K in taxes, not be affected by the phase-out of deductions based on income, etc. So for me to hire someone, I'd have to make 100K profit to get $60K after taxes. I've never made that much on my employees.

The bottom line is I'll stay a 1-person company, and forget about hiring anyone else.

If you need more details, I can give you my CPA's number, and you can pay him $300/hour to explain it to you.

There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years...

[StreetScooby 5]

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Nice to know you are so willing to give up so readily what you have worked for.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Clearly, Lucky doesn't have anything that he's worked for. He has no clue.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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And so are yours; wave teh onstitution

Would you at least try to spell properly in these discussions?

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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don't blame me for your inability to express your ideas.

Just like the professor from North Chicago State, you're simply not worth the effort.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Nobody is paid for how HARD they work.

What?

What planet are you from? Stop dealing with drug gangs.

You do not have a clue. Clearly, the government isn't taking your money.

I will no longer take any of your posts seriously, just like Lucky, and the professor from North Chicago State. You and your ilk are simply clueless.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Likewise, risk doesn't enter into it.

Simply unbelievable. Dude, you don't have a clue.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME?

Hey Lucky - do you even have a job?

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Indeed, if you then INCREASED their taxes to fix the highways, they would then do better.

They already pay taxes to do that!
Fucking unbelievable.
Ok, so the government can't spend the money they already take from us wisely.
So, you're saying we should bend over and let them take even more money.
Dude, what planet are you from?

We are all engines of karma

[kelpdiver 2]

whoa - 9 in a row. Channeling Lucky's posting habits during happy hour?

[Amazon 7]

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whoa - 9 in a row. Channeling Lucky's posting habits during happy hour?

ACTUALLY there WERE 13 in a row there.... I was waiting to see how many might go poof... a PA here.. a PA there.....

[StreetScooby 5]

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a PA here.. a PA there...

What PAs?

We are all engines of karma

[Amazon 7]

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a PA here.. a PA there...

What PAs?

Shall we say if I posted the exact same words... I would be getting a timeout for several months.... again

[kelpdiver 2]

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a PA here.. a PA there...

What PAs?

as I often seem to say now, was that a serious question?