Coreece 190 #51 September 20, 2010 QuoteMuslim sends a respectful message of goodwill to the Jewish community on a holy day which is hijacked by Christian bigotry The Word of God towards said Jewish community.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #52 September 20, 2010 QuoteMuslim sends a respectful message of goodwill to the Jewish community on a holy day which is hijacked by Christian bigotry The Word of God towards said Jewish community. I notice you didn't edit the word "hijacked". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #53 September 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteMuslim sends a respectful message of goodwill to the Jewish community on a holy day which is hijacked by Christian bigotry The Word of God towards said Jewish community. That depends on what you accept and how you interpret the 'Word of God'When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #54 September 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteMuslim sends a respectful message of goodwill to the Jewish community on a holy day which is hijacked by Christian bigotry The Word of God towards said Jewish community. That depends on what you accept and how you interpret the 'Word of God' Yes, it certainly does! But we must keep trying to understand what it all means, we definately don't know it all...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #55 September 21, 2010 don't forget purgetory ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #56 September 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Muslim sends a respectful message of goodwill to the Jewish community on a holy day which is hijacked by Christian bigotry The Word of God towards said Jewish community. That depends on what you accept and how you interpret the 'Word of God' Yes, it certainly does! But we must keep trying to understand what it all means, we definately don't know it all... We agree.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #57 September 21, 2010 Quote don't forget purgetory ! Aye Aye Maverick!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #58 September 21, 2010 QuoteWhy is it the Muslims and Jews believe that other faiths can make it to heaven yet Christians think their the only ones that will? Where do you get the idea that Muslims believe People of other religions can get to paradise without converting? I understand the idea that some Muslims believe what comes later (chronologically, not page number) in the Quran is more important or overrules what came before. Is there anything that overrules 98:1-8 22:19-23 43:74 76:1-5 73:12 and all the others that describe what awaits unbelievers should they fail to convert before being conquered. Is there something written about how non believers can enter paradise without conversion? Disclaimer: I'm not so ignorant of Christian teachings to think this is different, just trying to understand your statement.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #59 September 21, 2010 I find it amusing to read debates on religion using "beliefs" "writings" and some sort of logic. People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." ......and by the way Yom Kippur is a time to seek forgiveness and remember the dead. How ironic!Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #60 September 21, 2010 QuoteI find it amusing to read debates on religion using "beliefs" "writings" and some sort of logic. People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." ......and by the way Yom Kippur is a time to seek forgiveness and remember the dead. How ironic! What I find interesting....... is that our governments FISCAL year always begins about the same time frame as Yom Kippur Coincidence We need rhys to check this one out in depth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #61 September 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteI find it amusing to read debates on religion using "beliefs" "writings" and some sort of logic. People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." ......and by the way Yom Kippur is a time to seek forgiveness and remember the dead. How ironic! What I find interesting....... is that our governments FISCAL year always begins about the same time frame as Yom Kippur Coincidence We need rhys to check this one out in depth. Has to be a conspiracy.....Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #62 September 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote I find it amusing to read debates on religion using "beliefs" "writings" and some sort of logic. People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." ......and by the way Yom Kippur is a time to seek forgiveness and remember the dead. How ironic! What I find interesting....... is that our governments FISCAL year always begins about the same time frame as Yom Kippur Coincidence We need rhys to check this one out in depth. Has to be a conspiracy..... Hey that is why I am calling on the "expert" in these matters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #63 September 21, 2010 alot of symmetry there ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #64 September 21, 2010 Quote I find it amusing to read debates on religion using "beliefs" "writings" and some sort of logic. People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." Then how are we supposed to discuss our faith and try to reach some sort of an understanding of what we/others believe and why...with telepathy? That's ridiculous. Quote People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." ......and by the way Yom Kippur is a time to seek forgiveness and remember the dead. How ironic! Yet here you are debating religion with your "beliefs." How Ironic!...would you like to include "writings" or some sort of logic to back up your claim as well?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #65 September 21, 2010 there has to be some connection from irony to logic ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #66 September 21, 2010 Where do you get the idea that Muslims believe People of other religions can get to paradise without converting? QuoteI understand the idea that some Muslims believe what comes later (chronologically, not page number) in the Quran is more important or overrules what came before. Yes some do but this is also not as clear cut as for example the Old and New Testament. Jihadists like to focus on the later verses and use this arguement to back up their world view. Just as some Christians use some of the more violent parts of the Old Testament to justify their more extreme world view and actions. Quote Is there something written about how non believers can enter paradise without conversion? • Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115) • And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)' • Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62] • Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Qur'an 3:64] The Qur'an speaks extensively about the Children of Israel (Banû Isrâ'îl) and recognizes that the Jews (a-Yahûd) are, according to lineage, descendants of Prophet Abraham through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob, peace and blessings be upon them all. They were chosen by Allah for a mission: "And We chose them, purposely, above (all) creatures." [Sûrah al-Dukhân: 32] Allah raised among them many Prophets and bestowed upon them what He had not bestowed upon many others: "And (remember) when Musa said unto his people: O my people ! Remember Allah's favor unto you, how He placed among you Prophets, and He made you Kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures." [Sûrah al-Mâ'idah: 20] He, also, exalted them over other nations of the earth and granted them many favors: "O Children of Israel! Remember My favor wherewith I favored you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures." [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 47] They were chosen by God for a mission (44:32) and God raised among them many Prophets and bestowed upon them what He had not bestowed upon many others (5:20). Certainly this is the way I was raised to view Jewish people as rightous people of the book to be treated with respect. This is also the view of all the Muslims I know and within my extended family (Sunni). We can all point out where people of other faiths are different, but I belive that it is much more useful to focus on that which we have in common.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #67 September 21, 2010 Quote Quote I find it amusing to read debates on religion using "beliefs" "writings" and some sort of logic. People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." Then how are we supposed to discuss our faith and try to reach some sort of an understanding of what we/others believe and why...with telepathy? That's ridiculous. Quote People, it is a waste of time to debate religion with your "beliefs." ......and by the way Yom Kippur is a time to seek forgiveness and remember the dead. How ironic! Yet here you are debating religion with your "beliefs." How Ironic!...would you like to include "writings" or some sort of logic to back up your claim as well? Don't know where you got that... I'm not debating anything nor is there any belief involved. You are projecting!. I just told you the purpose of Yom Kippur and stated that debates are useless. Your "beliefs" are just that. Something you choose to believe, regardless of truths or logic. There is NOTHING to debate.Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #68 September 22, 2010 QuoteI just told you the purpose of Yom Kippur Yes, actually it appears you have. (though rather simplistic) Forgive me. My main purpose here was trying to reconcile the Avodah with the verses found in Isiah 1:11-14, and though I haven't been able to do so, my studies have led me to Mathew 23:1-4 and have given me a little more insight into the heart of a Jew from my Christian prespective. (although I believe we can talk extensively about how this would be viewed after Christ fulfilled the Law, but that is another topic all together...) Futhermore, it must be noted that I made a very basic error in calling someone rabbi (post#25) given the verses found in Mathew 23:8-12. (completly forgot about that...I knew somthing didn't feel right.) Lastly, I appreciate everyones contributions to this thread. God Bless.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #69 September 22, 2010 Quoting verse is not using logic, only your particular "belief" and so called interpretation. I can write anything ( which many profits did and a lot has been rejected over the ages) and call it my belief. Belief is personal and not allowed in a debate! Quote FACTS.Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #70 September 22, 2010 QuoteQuoting verse is not using logic, only your particular "belief" and so called interpretation. I can write anything ( which many profits did and a lot has been rejected over the ages) and call it my belief. Belief is personal and not allowed in a debate! Quote FACTS. Then, I think I'm more interested in discussion and understanding. There have been some Messianic Jews and Christian Expostiors that have been able to make sense of the text without having to reject everything they don't like.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #71 September 22, 2010 philosophy is not inherently factual , yet is eminently debatable in regards to this koran verseVerily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve .i'm inclined to interpret it as infidel disposition # 31 convert2 subjugate3 killnice of them to point that out as they behead you !as to Jesus Christ , most of his public life is well documented by multiple eye witnesses , can we assign some degree of fact there ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #72 September 22, 2010 Wow, this is a target rich environment Goose! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #73 September 22, 2010 To try and quote facts about something that happened over 2,000 years ago would be a belief, because the so called facts changed numerous times to fit the story. It becomes a buffet where you pick and choose to spin your story. Just look at current events with audio and pictures and 10 people have 11 stories. and now you think something that happened 2,000 years ago is a fact. Get real and use your common sense. Eye witnesses are inaccurate and you think a story repeated 100 times will be an accurate fact. NO, IT IS A BELIEF. Just because it is written in a book with a leather binder does not make it a fact.Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #74 September 22, 2010 Quote This is about Atonement and as it stands there is no atonement without the blood of Christ... So if you don't believe in the messiah, where is this Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement comming from? That's one of the reasons I like living in Germany. Chances are much, much less to run into religious zealots like you appear to be one. Why is it so hard for you to accept that other people have different beliefs? Why does it always have to be Christianity and only Christianity to gain redemption, etc pp.? BTW: Remember that Christianity is just Judaism for Windows... (That's a joke, just to make sure...) Well, I read this thread too late, but anyway, I hope you don't spread any zeal concerning Sukkoth. The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #75 September 22, 2010 BTW: Remember that Christianity is just Judaism for Windows... More like "Judaism according to Pagans." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
