Timeline on the fearmongering at the mosque

[jakee 1,611]

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What are you the Church review board?

Not at all. But if I wanted to assert that a mosque was completely un-neccesary (and therefore it's developers were deliberate rabble rousers) simply because it was in the vicinity of another mosque, I would make sure I knew the answers to some of those questions before I did so.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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What are you the Church review board?

Not at all. But if I wanted to assert that a mosque was completely un-neccesary (and therefore it's developers were deliberate rabble rousers) simply because it was in the vicinity of another mosque, I would make sure I knew the answers to some of those questions before I did so.

Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wmw999 2,603]

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Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Except that the other mosque, by its own admission, is too small for its membership (it's on their website).

I'm not sure they're from the same Muslim religious tradition; kind of how Methodists and Baptists don't automatically go to the same church.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,611]

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What are you the Church review board?

Not at all. But if I wanted to assert that a mosque was completely un-neccesary (and therefore it's developers were deliberate rabble rousers) simply because it was in the vicinity of another mosque, I would make sure I knew the answers to some of those questions before I did so.

Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Sure.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 226]

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What are you the Church review board?

Not at all. But if I wanted to assert that a mosque was completely un-neccesary (and therefore it's developers were deliberate rabble rousers) simply because it was in the vicinity of another mosque, I would make sure I knew the answers to some of those questions before I did so.

Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

By reverse - I'm assuming that you mean Christian and Jewish churches?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Just out of curiosity, where were all the people who thought this was a bad idea Last December?

Right now we have half a dozen threads with probably 600 posts.

Where was all this outrage 9 months ago?

And if it is an "in your face" provocation, they sure took their time getting in our faces about it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[turtlespeed 226]

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Just out of curiosity, where were all the people who thought this was a bad idea Last December?

Right now we have half a dozen threads with probably 600 posts.

Where was all this outrage 9 months ago?

And if it is an "in your face" provocation, they sure took their time getting in our faces about it.

They had to have time to recruit the anti-muslim bloggers to further their cause.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mnealtx 0]

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Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Except that the other mosque, by its own admission, is too small for its membership (it's on their website).

I'm not sure they're from the same Muslim religious tradition; kind of how Methodists and Baptists don't automatically go to the same church.

Wendy P.

So, nobody seems to have the same sort of info for the mosques, then.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wmw999 2,603]

Do they for churches?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,611]

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Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Except that the other mosque, by its own admission, is too small for its membership (it's on their website).

I'm not sure they're from the same Muslim religious tradition; kind of how Methodists and Baptists don't automatically go to the same church.

Wendy P.

So, nobody seems to have the same sort of info for the mosques, then.

Do you have any plans to meander your way to a point anytime soon?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Except that the other mosque, by its own admission, is too small for its membership (it's on their website).

I'm not sure they're from the same Muslim religious tradition; kind of how Methodists and Baptists don't automatically go to the same church.

Wendy P.

So, nobody seems to have the same sort of info for the mosques, then.

Do you have any plans to meander your way to a point anytime soon?

I'm wondering when you're going to meander your way to asking the same proof of the pro-mosque faction.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,611]

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Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Except that the other mosque, by its own admission, is too small for its membership (it's on their website).

I'm not sure they're from the same Muslim religious tradition; kind of how Methodists and Baptists don't automatically go to the same church.

Wendy P.

So, nobody seems to have the same sort of info for the mosques, then.

Do you have any plans to meander your way to a point anytime soon?

I'm wondering when you're going to meander your way to asking the same proof of the pro-mosque faction.

The 'pro-mosque' faction isn't (as far as I'm aware) hinging any part of it's argument on the assertion that the mosque is neccesary.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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Does the same not hold true for the reverse?

Except that the other mosque, by its own admission, is too small for its membership (it's on their website).

I'm not sure they're from the same Muslim religious tradition; kind of how Methodists and Baptists don't automatically go to the same church.

Wendy P.

So, nobody seems to have the same sort of info for the mosques, then.

Do you have any plans to meander your way to a point anytime soon?

I'm wondering when you're going to meander your way to asking the same proof of the pro-mosque faction.

The 'pro-mosque' faction isn't (as far as I'm aware) hinging any part of it's argument on the assertion that the mosque is neccesary.

So you're holding the anti-mosque faction to burden of proof that you are unwilling to hold the pro-mosque faction to?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,611]

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So you're holding the anti-mosque faction to burden of proof that you are unwilling to hold the pro-mosque faction to?

I am unwilling to make the 'pro-mosque' faction provide proof for an assertion that it has not made.

I think that's only fair.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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If only everyone felt this way. So I assume you also have no problem with the preacher's right to torch the Koran?

if you're asking, as the emphasis suggests, does he have a constitutional right to do it, yes, he does. Just like burning the flag.

But I hope he wasn't one of those people railing about how the Democrats were against the troops at various stages of the war. His action, if carried out, will have consequences on our soldiers. Worse than Jane Fonda in Vietnam. And unlike the Mosque, where there is only unsupported allegations of ill intent, there's no question that his call to burn the Koran is a "FUCK YOU" to the Muslims.

[kelpdiver 2]

Interesting column, sparking some thoughts I've been having about the [mis]use of viral social networks. I think I'll try to start it as a new thread, see if it can be done without the emotionalism of this specific issue.

[mnealtx 0]

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So you're holding the anti-mosque faction to burden of proof that you are unwilling to hold the pro-mosque faction to?

I am unwilling to make the 'pro-mosque' faction provide proof for an assertion that it has not made.

I think that's only fair.

I'm sure you do.

Now if it was just possible to show that the main argument against was 'it's not needed there' rather than 'we prefer you didn't build it there', you'd be brilliant.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,611]

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So you're holding the anti-mosque faction to burden of proof that you are unwilling to hold the pro-mosque faction to?

I am unwilling to make the 'pro-mosque' faction provide proof for an assertion that it has not made.

I think that's only fair.

I'm sure you do.

Now if it was just possible to show that the main argument against was 'it's not needed there' rather than 'we prefer you didn't build it there', you'd be brilliant.

It was the main point of Airdvr, in the post he wrote at 1.24pm, which was the post I first replied to and is, ergo, what I've been talking about.

Congratulations on my genius will now be warmly received.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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So you're holding the anti-mosque faction to burden of proof that you are unwilling to hold the pro-mosque faction to?

I am unwilling to make the 'pro-mosque' faction provide proof for an assertion that it has not made.

I think that's only fair.

I'm sure you do.

Now if it was just possible to show that the main argument against was 'it's not needed there' rather than 'we prefer you didn't build it there', you'd be brilliant.

It was the main point of Airdvr, in the post he wrote at 1.24pm, which was the post I first replied to and is, ergo, what I've been talking about.

You mean the one where he said "Nope. they can build them all over the place. I told you I don't care where they build it. If they build it 2 blocks from ground zero it's an 'in your face' kind of move. I'd rather know where they're coming from."

I can't seem to find where he's saying "it's not needed" - can you point it out to me, or is it in some special pixels that only the British can see?

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Congratulations on my genius will now be warmly received.

Sorry, no - that's a fail.

DO try again though, old chap.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Guest]

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. . . if anyone cares.

=================
How the "ground zero mosque" fear mongering began

A viciously anti-Muslim blogger, the New York Post and the right-wing media machine: How it all went down

By Justin Elliott

A group of progressive Muslim-Americans plans to build an Islamic community center two and a half blocks from ground zero in lower Manhattan. They have had a mosque in the same neighborhood for many years. There's another mosque two blocks away from the site. City officials support the project. Muslims have been praying at the Pentagon, the other building hit on Sept. 11, for many years.

In short, there is no good reason that the Cordoba House project should have been a major national news story, let alone controversy. And yet it has become just that, dominating the political conversation for weeks and prompting such a backlash that, according to a new poll, nearly 7 in 10 Americans now say they oppose the project. How did the Cordoba House become so toxic, so fast?

In a story last week, the New York Times, which framed the project in a largely positive, noncontroversial light last December, argued that it was cursed from the start by "public relations missteps." But this isn't accurate. To a remarkable extent, a Salon review of the origins of the story found, the controversy was kicked up and driven by Pamela Geller, a right-wing, viciously anti-Muslim, conspiracy-mongering blogger, whose sinister portrayal of the project was embraced by Rupert Murdoch's New York Post.

Here's a timeline of how it all happened:

* Dec. 8, 2009: The Times publishes a lengthy front-page look at the Cordoba project. "We want to push back against the extremists," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the lead organizer, is quoted as saying. Two Jewish leaders and two city officials, including the mayor's office, say they support the idea, as does the mother of a man killed on 9/11. An FBI spokesman says the imam has worked with the bureau. Besides a few third-tier right-wing blogs, including Pamela Geller's Atlas Shrugs site, no one much notices the Times story.

* Dec. 21, 2009: Conservative media personality Laura Ingraham interviews Abdul Rauf's wife, Daisy Khan, while guest-hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" on Fox. In hindsight, the segment is remarkable for its cordiality. "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it," Ingraham says of the Cordoba project, adding at the end of the interview, "I like what you're trying to do."

* (This segment also includes onscreen the first use that we've seen of the misnomer "ground zero mosque.") After the segment — and despite the front-page Times story — there were no news articles on the mosque for five and a half months, according to a search of the Nexis newspaper archive.

* May 6, 2010: After a unanimous vote by a New York City community board committee to approve the project, the AP runs a story. It quotes relatives of 9/11 victims (called by the reporter), who offer differing opinions. The New York Post, meanwhile, runs a story under the inaccurate headline, "Panel Approves 'WTC' Mosque." Geller is less subtle, titling her post that day, "Monster Mosque Pushes Ahead in Shadow of World Trade Center Islamic Death and Destruction." She writes on her Atlas Shrugs blog, "This is Islamic domination and expansionism. The location is no accident. Just as Al-Aqsa was built on top of the Temple in Jerusalem." (To get an idea of where Geller is coming from, she once suggested that Malcolm X was Obama's real father. Seriously.)

* May 7, 2010: Geller's group, Stop Islamization of America (SIOA), launches "Campaign Offensive: Stop the 911 Mosque!" (SIOA 's associate director is Robert Spencer, who makes his living writing and speaking about the evils of Islam.) Geller posts the names and contact information for the mayor and members of the community board, encouraging people to write. The board chair later reports getting "hundreds and hundreds" of calls and e-mails from around the world.

* May 8, 2010: Geller announces SIOA's first protest against what she calls the "911 monster mosque" for May 29. She and Spencer and several other members of the professional anti-Islam industry will attend. (She also says that the protest will mark the dark day of "May 29, 1453, [when] the Ottoman forces led by the Sultan Mehmet II broke through the Byzantine defenses against the Muslim siege of Constantinople." The outrage-peddling New York Post columnist Andrea Peyser argues in a note at the end of her column a couple of days later that "there are better places to put a mosque."

* May 13, 2010: Peyser follows up with an entire column devoted to "Mosque Madness at Ground Zero." This is a significant moment in the development of the "ground zero mosque" narrative: It's the first newspaper article that frames the project as inherently wrong and suspect, in the way that Geller has been framing it for months. Peyser in fact quotes Geller at length and promotes the anti-mosque protest of Stop Islamization of America, which Peyser describes as a "human-rights group." Peyser also reports — falsely — that Cordoba House's opening date will be Sept. 11, 2011.

Lots of opinion makers on the right read the Post, so it's not surprising that, starting that very day, the mosque story spread through the conservative — and then mainstream — media like fire through dry grass. Geller appeared on Sean Hannity's radio show. The Washington Examiner ran an outraged column about honoring the 9/11 dead. So did Investor's Business Daily. Smelling blood, the Post assigned news reporters to cover the ins and outs of the Cordoba House development daily. Fox News, the Post's television sibling, went all out.

Within a month, Rudy Giuliani had called the mosque a "desecration." Within another month, Sarah Palin had tweeted her famous "peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate" tweet. Peter King and Newt Gingrich and Tim Pawlenty followed suit — with political reporters and television news programs dutifully covering "both sides" of the controversy.

Geller had succeeded beyond her wildest dreams.
==============================

Here in the Middle East, there is a mosque on almost every city block. There are hundreds of them in Doha, so many that when they crank up their hollering over the loudspeakers beginning at 4:30 am every day, they all drown each other out.

Is that what you want for my country?

The death-cult known as islam has ZERO TOLERANCE for other religions.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[jakee 1,611]

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It was the main point of Airdvr, in the post he wrote at 1.24pm, which was the post I first replied to and is, ergo, what I've been talking about.

You mean the one where he said...

No, I mean the one that he made at 1.24PM, which was the first post I replied to.

Jesus H Christ Mike, it's a short thread, even you should be able to follow those clues.

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Congratulations on my genius will now be warmly received.

Sorry, no - that's a fail.

DO try again though, old chap.

Given the lack of problem solving skills you've just demonstrated I'd be worried if you did agree with me.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

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The other "mosque" is too small. And if there's a Baptist church in town, why would the Methodists need to build another?

Wendy P.

Ah, c'mon Wendy! Everybody knows that Baptists consider Methodists as too liberal.

There is an old story of a Jewish man stranded on a desert island. To occupy his time he constructed a synagogue from available materials. It was exact in every detail, as best as he could do with what he had to work with. He desired a place to pray for rescue and to worship God.

When the synagogue was completed he built another. It was an exact duplicate.

When he was rescued he was asked. "Why did you build two synagogues? You are the only one on the island."

He replied, "The other is the one I will never set foot in."

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[mnealtx 0]

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No, I mean the one that he made at 1.24PM, which was the first post I replied to.

Jesus H Christ Mike, it's a short thread, even you should be able to follow those clues.

Doesn't say 1:24 on my screen - regardless, the post where he said he didn't care where it was built - the same as he said in the post I quoted.

You're still out.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[hwt 0]

Hey you forgot to put senate majority leader and Democrat Harry Reid on your list.

[likearock 2]

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Just out of curiosity, where were all the people who thought this was a bad idea Last December?

Right now we have half a dozen threads with probably 600 posts.

Where was all this outrage 9 months ago?

And if it is an "in your face" provocation, they sure took their time getting in our faces about it.

Exactly! Not to mention that the one mention of the mosque on Fox News back then was a distinctly positive one.

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Laura Ingraham to the Imam's wife: I like what you're trying to do.

Could there be any more convincing evidence that this whole "controversy" was completely ginned up for political purposes?