Kennedy 0 #1 September 10, 2010 http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=14212 http://www.kcbd.com/global/Story.asp?s=13130052 http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13120824 http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-washington-dc/nra-lawsuit-to-secure-right-of-18-year-olds-to-buy-handguns-from-dealers-makes-sense QuoteYesterday the National Rifle Association (NRA) filed a lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas Lubbock Division. James D'Cruz of Lubbock, TX is the plaintiff in this case. The aim of the lawsuit is simple – to strike down the federal law that requires adults aged 18-21 to buy handguns in private sales. Though one federal law at 18 USC 922(x)(2) allows adults aged 18 to own and carry handguns, another federal law at 18 USC 922(b)(1) forbids these same adults from buying handguns from federally licensed dealers pursuant to a Brady Act gun buyer criminal background check. If there ever was a law that failed rational basis scrutiny (essentially a judicial giggle test), this would be it. The NRA lawsuit makes sense, and should be a home run. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #2 September 10, 2010 18-year-olds are adults, and should be allowed to buy handguns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #3 September 10, 2010 >18-year-olds are adults, and should be allowed to buy handguns. They have the legal right, sure. But if they really care about getting along with people, and proving they are not criminals, they'll go with public opinion and not own guns if other people are uncomfortable with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 September 10, 2010 Quotenot own guns if other people are uncomfortable with it. A right of citizenship in the US should be denied because someone is uncomfortable with another person exercising that right? Bill, having known you for a long time, I'm going to assume (hope) that is not what you really meant.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #5 September 10, 2010 >A right of citizenship in the US should be denied because someone >is uncomfortable with another person exercising that right? "Not at all. He has that right, no one should deny it. But criminals kill people all the time with their guns. If he wants to prove he's not a criminal then he will make the wise decision to not own guns. If he does own them, it will just be to try to anger all the people who have had loved ones killed by criminals. Why does he want to go after those families? Why try to piss them off?" (In quotes because I am repeating someone else's argument on the topic of constitutional rights.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #6 September 10, 2010 There are no parallels out there, are there... Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #7 September 10, 2010 Quote >18-year-olds are adults, and should be allowed to buy handguns. They have the legal right, sure. But if they really care about getting along with people, and proving they are not criminals, they'll go with public opinion and not own guns if other people are uncomfortable with it. Stir Stir Sir your boat ....gently down the stream....merrily merrily merrily merrily... life is just a scream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #8 September 10, 2010 Quote>A right of citizenship in the US should be denied because someone >is uncomfortable with another person exercising that right? "Not at all. He has that right, no one should deny it. But criminals kill people all the time with their guns. If he wants to prove he's not a criminal then he will make the wise decision to not own guns. If he does own them, it will just be to try to anger all the people who have had loved ones killed by criminals. Why does he want to go after those families? Why try to piss them off?" (In quotes because I am repeating someone else's argument on the topic of constitutional rights.) You are referring to Jones' right to burn the koran?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 September 10, 2010 QuoteThey have the legal right, sure. But if they really care about getting along with people, and proving they are not criminals, they'll go with public opinion and not own guns if other people are uncomfortable with it. Your attempt at making a point by using a 9/11 mosque analogy fails. You should put more thought into these schemes. For one thing, your proposing that all 18-year-olds nationwide refrain from exercising their right, not just one group in one place. A more valid analogy with guns would be something like a gun shop catering to teens opening up across the street from Columbine High School. Then you might actually have a valid point. That would be crass and insensitive, and there are better places for a gun store. But no, in your zeal to bash someone over the mosque story, you just threw out a knee-jerk post with no relevance. Too bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #10 September 10, 2010 Quote>18-year-olds are adults, and should be allowed to buy handguns. They have the legal right, sure. But if they really care about getting along with people, and proving they are not criminals, they'll go with public opinion and not own guns if other people are uncomfortable with it. WTF? "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #11 September 10, 2010 Quote gun shop catering to teens opening up across the street from Columbine High School Methinks that one's going too far the other direction. Why would the gun shop have to be catering to teens? There are two gun shops (well, one is a Sports Authority -- its gun-shop-ness is rather doubtful ) within a mile and a half of Columbine high school. Littleton is considerably less densely populated than lower Manhattan, so personally I don't think the distances scale exactly. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fratricide 0 #12 September 10, 2010 If I was a criminal and I couldn't get a hold of a handgun because of my age, I'd just settle for a shotgun or rifle with some hollow points. Where there's a will there's a way. If people are uncomfortable with me owning a handgun at 20 their feelings suddenly change when I turn 21? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 September 10, 2010 QuoteQuotegun shop catering to teens opening up across the street from Columbine High SchoolMethinks that one's going too far the other direction. Why would the gun shop have to be catering to teens? Because billvon's analogy is really about a New York city mosque catering to muslims in a sensitive area. That's the equivalent in his analogy of a Columbine gun store catering to teens in a sensitive area. Extremist muslims killed thousands in New York city. Extremist teens killed dozens in Columbine. My analogy fits the same kind of sensitized target citizen group as his. Hey, it was his analogy - ask him. Apparently he thinks that voluntarily foregoing legal handgun ownership by all 18-year-olds everywhere, is the equivalent of asking one New York city mosque to move to a different location. Go figure. And congratulations to him for turning yet another thread into a muslim issue. We can never have enough of those here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #14 September 10, 2010 A mosque catering to Muslims is like a gun store catering to gun owners. That's the target customer set. Or a church targeting Christians. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 September 10, 2010 QuoteA mosque catering to Muslims is like a gun store catering to gun owners. That's the target customer set. Or a church targeting Christians. You're ignoring the sensitive nature of the locations of these two respective establishments. That gives just cause to reconsider the placement of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 September 10, 2010 QuoteA mosque catering to Muslims is like a gun store catering to gun owners. That's the target customer set. Or a church targeting Christians. Wendy P. location, location, location John had it right.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #17 September 10, 2010 QuoteIf I was a criminal and I couldn't get a hold of a handgun because of my age, I'd just settle for a shotgun or rifle with some hollow points. Where there's a will there's a way. If you were a criminal the law concerning legal purchases at a licensed gun shop wouldn't affect you. Criminal break the law, so prior restraint type gun laws only affect people who follow the law. Punishing the actual bad act involving a gun is something we can all get behind. QuoteIf people are uncomfortable with me owning a handgun at 20 their feelings suddenly change when I turn 21? I wonder the same thing myself. Personally I think firearms purchases and gambling should be 18, and drinking should be legal much younger (think Europe).witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #18 September 10, 2010 > For one thing, your proposing that all 18-year-olds nationwide refrain from >exercising their right, not just one group in one place. =========== Tennessee Mosque Site Arson: Authorities Offer Reward For Information TRAVIS LOLLER 09/ 3/10 08:37 PM MURFREESBORO, Tenn. — Federal investigators said Friday that a suspicious fire that damaged construction equipment at the site of a future mosque in Tennessee was arson and offered a $20,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. The future mosque in Tennessee, like other houses of worship for Muslims across the country, has been drawn into a fierce debate surrounding a proposed Islamic community center two blocks from Manhattan's ground zero, and opponents are becoming even more hostile and aggressive. =========== Mosque being opposed in Norwalk Updated: Thursday, 02 Sep 2010, 8:10 PM EDT Published : Thursday, 02 Sep 2010, 6:46 PM EDT Norwalk, Conn. (WTNH) - The Norwalk Zoning Commission Plan Review Committee met again Thursday night to study a plan for a new mosque in a residential neighborhood. An idea that is getting more controversial. "Not in our neighborhood!" was one sentiment of a man talking about the proposed mosque at 127 Fillow St. =============== Looks like your objection ignores reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 September 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteThey have the legal right, sure. But if they really care about getting along with people, and proving they are not criminals, they'll go with public opinion and not own guns if other people are uncomfortable with it. Your attempt at making a point by using a 9/11 mosque analogy fails. You should put more thought into these schemes. For one thing, your proposing that all 18-year-olds nationwide refrain from exercising their right, not just one group in one place. The failure was your's, John. You refused to address the difference when I raised it weeks ago, and you continue to do so. You very clearly stated a philosophy that people shouldn't exercise their rights if it will upset others - well at least when you're part of "others." No, there's no justification for the handgun ban for adults. Nor is there a reason to sieze private property or insist people not worship there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 September 10, 2010 QuoteYou very clearly stated a philosophy that people shouldn't exercise their rights if it will upset others - well at least when you're part of "others." And now we're right back to the blah-blah-blah make-shit-up phase again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 September 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou very clearly stated a philosophy that people shouldn't exercise their rights if it will upset others - well at least when you're part of "others." And now we're right back to the blah-blah-blah make-shit-up phase again. I specifically called you out to defend/clarify your stance on two occasions in that thread. You declined, as your position was not supportable. Sorry, it was the same hypocrisy we see from the liberals here, who are all for freedom of speech and criminal rights, but no guns. The minority does not have to sacrifice its rights to make other people more comfortable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #22 September 11, 2010 I would like to see 18 year olds be able to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer. But keep in mind that just because a court may see a conflict between the two laws, it doesn't mean they will lower the legal age to buy to 18. They just may raise the minimum age to possess to 21.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 September 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnd now we're right back to the blah-blah-blah make-shit-up phase again. I specifically called you out to defend/clarify your stance on two occasions in that thread. You declined, as your position was not supportable. Sorry, it was the same hypocrisy... The minority does not have to sacrifice its rights to make other people more comfortable. Yet more of the blah-blah-blah make-shit-up stuff. I explained my position. Just because I didn't keep coming back over and over again to defend it, doesn't mean that I surrendered because I had no legs to stand on. One explanation is enough for most people. I'm not going to obsess over it like you're doing. If you can't get it in one, then I'm not going to waste my time on you. If only everyone here would say what they mean just once, and then be done with it! And once again, you have misstated my position (repeat the "blah-blah-blah" part, above). It's actually become quite humorous seeing how many times you guys keep making stuff up over and over again, in order to claim victory. You must be giants in your own minds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 September 11, 2010 Quote It's actually become quite humorous seeing how many times you guys keep making stuff up over and over again, in order to claim victory. You must be giants in your own minds. Nah, I'm just a guy who actually believes in the Bill of Rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #25 September 13, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt's actually become quite humorous seeing how many times you guys keep making stuff up over and over again, in order to claim victory. You must be giants in your own minds. Nah, I'm just a guy who actually believes in the Bill of Rights. See? There it is again! Ha! Thank you for proving my point. Again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites