Smart Man

[wayneflorida 0]

NYT"Nobody likes unpleasant surprises, but when Allison Brooke Eastman’s fiancé found out four months ago just how high her student loan debt was, he had a particularly strong reaction: he broke off the engagement within three days."

What is the average interest rates for current college
loans?



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=business

[JohnRich 4]

He could have just done a prenuptial contract whereby her student loan is to remain hers alone, with no responsibility to be assumed by him through marriage. Right?

[Andy9o8 2]

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He could have just done a prenuptial contract whereby her student loan is to remain hers alone, with no responsibility to be assumed by him through marriage. Right?

Yes, but even that really isn't necessary (I think). I'm pretty sure that in most jurisdictions he wouldn't have assumed (i.e., shared) the pre-marital debt/responsibility anyway merely by virtue of his post loan marriage to the borrower. The general rule is that a person has no automatic responsibility for a spouse's pre-marital debt.

That being said, there's certainly no harm in a pre-nup; I'm a big fan of them.

*Edit: the fact that he wouldn't legally have been personally responsible for her debt may be beside the point in his mind, since in practical effect her debt would still have been a financial burden on their mutual household/finances.

[shropshire 0]

He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ... she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,112]

>He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ...
>she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

?? That's about the debt most doctors have when they finish their internship. Think they are "fucking retarded?"

[shropshire 0]

If they lie about it - yeap.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kelpdiver 2]

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>He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ...
>she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

?? That's about the debt most doctors have when they finish their internship. Think they are "fucking retarded?"

"But as the couple got closer to their wedding day, she took out all the paperwork and it became clear that her total debt was actually about $170,000. “He accused me of lying,” said Ms. Eastman, 31, a San Francisco X-ray technician and part-time photographer who had run up much of the balance studying for a bachelor’s degree in photography."

The article is a bit fuzzy - it appears he postponed the marriage, rather than breaking up with her. More crappy writing in journalism.

[TriGirl 343]

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>He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ...
>she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

?? That's about the debt most doctors have when they finish their internship. Think they are "fucking retarded?"

"But as the couple got closer to their wedding day, she took out all the paperwork and it became clear that her total debt was actually about $170,000. “He accused me of lying,” said Ms. Eastman, 31, a San Francisco X-ray technician and part-time photographer who had run up much of the balance studying for a bachelor’s degree in photography."

The article is a bit fuzzy - it appears he postponed the marriage, rather than breaking up with her. More crappy writing in journalism.

No, photography school girl got dumped. Medical school girl still engaged, fiance fine with probable debt (doc in training not finished, debt COULD go to $250K). Article didn't say how much she owes right now.

Article writer also slams the one who got dumped (who didn't really know her balance).

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Southern_Man 0]

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Yes, but even that really isn't necessary (I think). I'm pretty sure that in most jurisdictions he wouldn't have assumed (i.e., shared) the pre-marital debt/responsibility anyway merely by virtue of his post loan marriage to the borrower. The general rule is that a person has no automatic responsibility for a spouse's pre-marital debt.

That being said, there's certainly no harm in a pre-nup; I'm a big fan of them.

*Edit: the fact that he wouldn't legally have been personally responsible for her debt may be beside the point in his mind, since in practical effect her debt would still have been a financial burden on their mutual household/finances.

In some jurisdictions (like mine in VA where I got divorced) even student loan debt accumulated during the marriage is presumed to belong to the person who got the education.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Calvin19 0]

HOLY CRAP.

right out of High School I took 7 years to get a degree in aero, learned how to fly airplanes, bought an airplane, learned how to skydive, paraglide, scuba dive and BASE jump. and started a company.

I took only 20k in student loans and borrowed 45k from my dad (for the plane). I paid my dad back, but still have the student loans. of course the whole time I was also working.

How the hell does one spent 170k learning to use a camera? Shit. I bet you my student loans I am a better photographer than she is.

[billvon 3,112]

>If they lie about it - yeap.

OK. Then why do you think this woman is retarded?

"Ms. Eastman said she had told him early on in their relationship that she had over $100,000 of debt."

[AndyBoyd 0]

Here's a story about a guy who racked up about $40K in student loans, which is much less than the girl in the NYT story. But this guy indicates that 4 years at Loyola Chicago costs $125K, not including room and board. If you go to a private school and take out loans for everything, the $170K the girl racked up is well within reach. Of course, whether it's wise to accumulate so much debt is debatable. I'm just saying it's not hard to do.

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/05/23/buried-under-student-loan-debt-one-post-grads-story/

[DFWAJG 4]

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What is the average interest rates for current college
loans?

Student loans fluctuate with the economy. And, interest can build if the loans are in deferment. I can't imagine how she racked up so much getting a bachelor's degree. It's possible she had some of her loans in forbearance.

While in medical school, some of my loans were already gaining interest. I remember one was 18% + T bill. By the time I graduated, I had borrowed $147,000. By the time I completed my residencies, after several years of forbearance, I graduated from residency with $255,000 in loans. So far, I've only been able to pay off $50,000 of it. My monthly payments are between $1400 and $1700 per month, depending on HEAL loan interest. I could have a really nice house with that. And before any rebuttals about "Yeah, but you make so much money now." Well, had I been making money all along while in school, I would have made out better financially. Many of my friends from high school have far larger and nicer houses, nicer cars and take much nicer vacations than I have or do, without the significant debt that medical school has imposed.

[wayneflorida 0]

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What is the average interest rates for current college
loans?

Student loans fluctuate with the economy. And, interest can build if the loans are in deferment. I can't imagine how she racked up so much getting a bachelor's degree. It's possible she had some of her loans in forbearance.

While in medical school, some of my loans were already gaining interest. I remember one was 18% + T bill. By the time I graduated, I had borrowed $147,000. By the time I completed my residencies, after several years of forbearance, I graduated from residency with $255,000 in loans. So far, I've only been able to pay off $50,000 of it. My monthly payments are between $1400 and $1700 per month, depending on HEAL loan interest. I could have a really nice house with that. And before any rebuttals about "Yeah, but you make so much money now." Well, had I been making money all along while in school, I would have made out better financially. Many of my friends from high school have far larger and nicer houses, nicer cars and take much nicer vacations than I have or do, without the significant debt that medical school has imposed.

Ouch, 18%. Was that in the early 80's.

[Lucky... 0]

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He could have just done a prenuptial contract whereby her student loan is to remain hers alone, with no responsibility to be assumed by him through marriage. Right?

Yes, but even that really isn't necessary (I think). I'm pretty sure that in most jurisdictions he wouldn't have assumed (i.e., shared) the pre-marital debt/responsibility anyway merely by virtue of his post loan marriage to the borrower. The general rule is that a person has no automatic responsibility for a spouse's pre-marital debt.

That being said, there's certainly no harm in a pre-nup; I'm a big fan of them.

*Edit: the fact that he wouldn't legally have been personally responsible for her debt may be beside the point in his mind, since in practical effect her debt would still have been a financial burden on their mutual household/finances.

Right.

1) Prenups lay a big bummer on a "regular" marriage

2) All her $$ would go to pay off the loan, his to pay the bills

3) Creditors would still try to garnish his pay and could be successful

4) Aint love grand? Love comes with conditions.

[Lucky... 0]

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He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ... she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

No, retarded is what most people are w/o debt / degrees.

[Lucky... 0]

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The article is a bit fuzzy - it appears he postponed the marriage, rather than breaking up with her.

He still wanted the milk w/o buyng the cow; he sounds pretty smart to me.

[Lucky... 0]

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Yes, but even that really isn't necessary (I think). I'm pretty sure that in most jurisdictions he wouldn't have assumed (i.e., shared) the pre-marital debt/responsibility anyway merely by virtue of his post loan marriage to the borrower. The general rule is that a person has no automatic responsibility for a spouse's pre-marital debt.

That being said, there's certainly no harm in a pre-nup; I'm a big fan of them.

*Edit: the fact that he wouldn't legally have been personally responsible for her debt may be beside the point in his mind, since in practical effect her debt would still have been a financial burden on their mutual household/finances.

In some jurisdictions (like mine in VA where I got divorced) even student loan debt accumulated during the marriage is presumed to belong to the person who got the education.

I think it's presumed as one of those things that the hubby would have to prove he isn't liable for, rather than the creditors prove he is. They're married, it's communuty property / community debt; they would go ahead and garnish until the courts told them to stop. Who knows, I could see the courts assign him as a debtor, even tho it's against most civil laws.

[Lucky... 0]

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HOLY CRAP.

right out of High School I took 7 years to get a degree in aero, learned how to fly airplanes, bought an airplane, learned how to skydive, paraglide, scuba dive and BASE jump. and started a company.

I took only 20k in student loans and borrowed 45k from my dad (for the plane). I paid my dad back, but still have the student loans. of course the whole time I was also working.

How the hell does one spent 170k learning to use a camera? Shit. I bet you my student loans I am a better photographer than she is.

She's a professional student. She's thetype who takes fun classes and when she wants to stop, ste can't as the debt would then start to tick and accrue interest. She sounds like a very imprudent chick.

[Andy9o8 2]

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3) Creditors would still try to garnish his pay and could be successful

I hope you don't mean for any debts that are exclusively in her name, because more often than not that is not correct.

Plus a creditor generally cannot garnish pay unless there's either a court judgment or a contractual provision specifically permitting it (the latter is quite rare).

Plus some US states, as a matter of statutory law, specifically prohibit garnishment of wages in execution upon a judgment.

[Andy9o8 2]

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In some jurisdictions (like mine in VA where I got divorced) even student loan debt accumulated during the marriage is presumed to belong to the person who got the education.

I think it's presumed as one of those things that the hubby would have to prove he isn't liable for, rather than the creditors prove he is. They're married, it's communuty property / community debt; they would go ahead and garnish until the courts told them to stop. Who knows, I could see the courts assign him as a debtor, even tho it's against most civil laws.

[Lucky... 0]

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3) Creditors would still try to garnish his pay and could be successful

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I hope you don't mean for any debts that are exclusively in her name, because more often than not that is not correct.

His name becomes her name and the debts follow and mutiality becomes the norm in community debt. Again, it could be unfucked, but the burden would then fall on him to establish this.

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Plus a creditor generally cannot garnish pay unless there's either a court judgment or a contractual provision specifically permitting it (the latter is quite rare).

OK, so the creditor gets a summary judgment upon any default of the loan and then pursues. No default, no judgment and no issue, other than all of her income goes to pay the laon and all of hio income goes to pay the bills = no fun.

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Plus some US states, as a matter of statutory law, specifically prohibit garnishment of wages in execution upon a judgment.

Sure, I was paraphasing:

- Garnish accounts

- Garnish wages (if allowed)

- Place on file with the county recorder the judgment (if there is a default) so either cannot transfer out a house/real property w/o satisfying the debt

- Lien any property

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[shropshire 0]

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He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ... she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

No, retarded is what most people are w/o debt / degrees.

Fait do's... that'll be me then. I don't need no stinking degree ... I work for a living.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Lucky... 0]

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In some jurisdictions (like mine in VA where I got divorced) even student loan debt accumulated during the marriage is presumed to belong to the person who got the education.

I think it's presumed as one of those things that the hubby would have to prove he isn't liable for, rather than the creditors prove he is. They're married, it's communuty property / community debt; they would go ahead and garnish until the courts told them to stop. Who knows, I could see the courts assign him as a debtor, even tho it's against most civil laws.

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That's not fully correct. In the first place, the burden of proof, especially in court would be on the creditor, not the (putative) debtor.

Sure, the paintiff/creditor has to prove the jurisdiction, parties, debt, etc. Many times people default in court, of course that's their problem, but it happens and the debt is assumed owed by both parties. Also, we don't know all 50 states and how they rule (thru statute or precedence) on these issues. Does time mater, as in time married? It may very well be that after X years of marriage they all meld together. I understand that in Cali after 10 years of marriage and at least 1 child that lifetime vaginamony is is statuted. So there is so much we don't know about all 50 state's laws regarding debt in marrital/premarital matters.

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Plus, not all debt incurred during a marriage is necessarily legally defined as "community debt". Community debt is generally defined as debt which benefits the marital community. A student loan incurred during the marriage would be in a "grey area", and I can see different courts disagreeing with each other on a given set of facts.

Sure, but it seems that the courts give a lot more lattitude to creditors. I could see the courts assinging the debt to both people and making it the burden of the husband in this case to get a judgment within a possible divorce decree that the debt is hers. You want to enjoy the privs of marriage, you have to endure the BS too. This is why marriage is so dangerous, as it makes 2 people liable for 1 person's debt.

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It would also vary greatly depending on what state's laws were being applied. The burden of proof in court, as I said, would be on the creditor; the creditor would have the burden to prove that the debt incurred by one spouse was for the benefit of the marital community. If the creditor fails that burden of proof, the creditor loses as against the spouse.

True in part, but the counter-arg would be that they commingled their money, they still do so where is this imaginary line that divides his money from hers, hers from his? A spouse can refuse to testify against his/her spouse as a benefit, so the burden is that their money is also community. Whether statuted or not, I bet the longer they are married, the more any debt becomes more mutual.

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Finally, as I suggested in my earlier post, getting a garnishment of wages against one spouse for the student loan debt incurred by the other spouse, even if during the marriage would, in my opinion, be quite difficult, and in some states, flatly impossible.

I don't think so, esp in Nazizona. Also, there are a lot more things besides income that can be levied/liened, garnished besides income.

[Lucky... 0]

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He did right .... you can't trust someone who can't even trust herself ... she should have her degree taken away for being so fucking retarded

No, retarded is what most people are w/o debt / degrees.

Fait do's... that'll be me then. I don't need no stinking degree ... I work for a living.

I have 1 and a half degrees, I don;t use them now, probably will soon, but it makes a person more globally aware even if you don't use it as your primary earning source.