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jclalor

Insurance death panel gives thumbs down to five year old boy

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Ask Obama's health czar.

Quote

Dr. Emanuel makes a clear choice: "When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get changes that are attenuated


Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Ask Obama's health czar.

Quote

Dr. Emanuel makes a clear choice: "When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get changes that are attenuated



Obama now wants to deny medical care to kids? you people crack me up.


The nonpartisan Politifact.com Web site described McCaughey's claim as a "ridiculous falsehood."[34][37][38][39] FactCheck.org said, "We agree that Emanuel’s meaning is being twisted. In one article, he was talking about a philosophical trend, and in another, he was writing about how to make the most ethical choices when forced to choose which patients get organ transplants or vaccines when supplies are limited."[40][41] An article on Time.com said that Emanuel "was only addressing extreme cases like organ donation, where there is an absolute scarcity of resources ... 'My quotes were just being taken out of context.'"[7] A decade ago, when many doctors wanted to legalize euthanasia or physician-assisted suicide, Emanuel opposed it.[4] Emanuel said the "death panel" idea is "an outright lie, a complete fabrication. And the paradox, the hypocrisy, the contradiction is that many of the people who are attacking me now supported living wills and consultations with doctors about end-of-life care, before they became against it for political reasons." "I worked pretty hard and against the odds to improve end-of-life care. And so to have that record and that work completely perverted — it's pretty shocking."[42]

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The nonpartisan Politifact.com Web site described McCaughey's claim as a "ridiculous falsehood."[34][37][38][39] FactCheck.org said, "We agree that Emanuel’s meaning is being twisted. In one article, he was talking about a philosophical trend, and in another, he was writing about how to make the most ethical choices when forced to choose which patients get organ transplants or vaccines when supplies are limited."[40][41] An article on Time.com said that Emanuel "was only addressing extreme cases like organ donation, where there is an absolute scarcity of resources ... 'My quotes were just being taken out of context.'"[7] A decade ago, when many doctors wanted to legalize euthanasia or physician-assisted suicide, Emanuel opposed it.[4] Emanuel said the "death panel" idea is "an outright lie, a complete fabrication. And the paradox, the hypocrisy, the contradiction is that many of the people who are attacking me now supported living wills and consultations with doctors about end-of-life care, before they became against it for political reasons." "I worked pretty hard and against the odds to improve end-of-life care. And so to have that record and that work completely perverted — it's pretty shocking."[42]



Yeah, about that....

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Covering services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic, and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia." (Hastings Center Report, November-December, 1996)



And

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The youngest are also put at the back of the line: "Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments. . . . As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, 'It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old dies and worse still when an adolescent does,' this argument is supported by empirical surveys." (thelancet.com, Jan. 31, 2009).


Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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It took you three posts to blame Obama? You're slipping, Mike.



And the original post blamed it on conservatives - you liberals are still the champions.



Can you please show where I placed blame on the right?

"A five year old boy has died after an insurance company death panel refused to provide him with the treatment his Doctors recommended.

Where is the outrage from the right?"

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But, hey, think of how much better it will when you can't be denied coverage and people can wait until they REALLY need the insurance to start paying into it...that's going to make for a HUGE pool to spread the cost, won't it?

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Up to 20,000 people have died needlessly early after being denied cancer drugs on the NHS, it was revealed yesterday.
The rationing body NICE has failed to keep a promise to make more life-extending drugs available.

Treatments used widely in the U.S. and Europe have been rejected on grounds of cost-effectiveness, yet patients and their loved ones have seen the NHS waste astronomical sums.


Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Yeah, about that....

***Covering services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic, and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia." (Hastings Center Report, November-December, 1996)



And

Quote

The youngest are also put at the back of the line: "Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments. . . . As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, 'It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old dies and worse still when an adolescent does,' this argument is supported by empirical surveys." (thelancet.com, Jan. 31, 2009).



Once again you are taking this out of context.

"In the Lancet, Jan. 31, 2009, Dr. Emanuel and co-authors presented a "complete lives system" for the allocation of very scarce resources, such as kidneys, vaccines, dialysis machines, intensive care beds, and others. "One maximizing strategy involves saving the most individual lives, and it has motivated policies on allocation of influenza vaccines and responses to bioterrorism. . . . Other things being equal, we should always save five lives rather than one."


So just give me a straight answer, you believe Obama wants to deny medical care to children, or at least non-Muslim children.

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So just give me a straight answer, you believe Obama wants to deny medical care to children?



Where did I say that?



You said........

Ask Obama's health czar.

Quote
"Dr. Emanuel makes a clear choice: "When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get changes that are attenuated"

What then were you suggesting?

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What then were you suggesting?



That it's going to happen under Obamacare, as well, and very possibly more often.



Oh, then you did say that Obama wants to deny medical care to children.



Wrong again...but don't let that stop you from leaping to conclusions *now*...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News flash. The rationing of health care happens all the time. Based on money, parents' decisions, ER doctors' decisions, insurance company decisions, Medicare and Medicaid decisions, you name it, it happens.

It's going to continue to happen. Should money be the primary arbiter of medical care rationing? Should the government? Should insurance companies? Should charities?

Because it's going to be one of them. Most of us are lucky enough never to need to think about rationing of medical care; our needs aren't that complex or expensive.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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It took you three posts to blame Obama? You're slipping, Mike.



And the original post blamed it on conservatives - you liberals are still the champions.



Can you please show where I placed blame on the right?

"A five year old boy has died after an insurance company death panel refused to provide him with the treatment his Doctors recommended.

Where is the outrage from the right?"



Inference.





______________________________________________________________________________________________________
1981 to 1988 is 7 years-Kallend (oops, it's actually 8 years Kallend)

The decade of the 80's was from 1980 to 1989. 10 years. If you remove 1980 and 1989 you have 1981 to 1988. 8 years.

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News flash. The rationing of health care happens all the time. Based on money, parents' decisions, ER doctors' decisions, insurance company decisions, Medicare and Medicaid decisions, you name it, it happens.

It's going to continue to happen. Should money be the primary arbiter of medical care rationing? Should the government? Should insurance companies? Should charities?

Because it's going to be one of them. Most of us are lucky enough never to need to think about rationing of medical care; our needs aren't that complex or expensive.

Wendy P.



Who might that be??

Few days ago, *Sicko* by M. Moore was in TV. As per his own definition, the movie was based on facts. If that's true, it really is a confession of failure in the oh so poor US.

And @ Mike:

That was before Obamas HC, sorry :P

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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Few days ago, *Sicko* by M. Moore was in TV. As per his own definition, the movie was based on facts.

I am with Michael Moore on a lot of beliefs. But he cherry-picks his data. His movies are based on facts just as much as the ones about Obama-birth-ism, and the 911-truthers' are.
They all have facts included.

It's neither as bad as Moore makes out (for most people -- for some it is), nor as good as the anti-HC folks make out.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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News flash. The rationing of health care happens all the time. Based on money, parents' decisions, ER doctors' decisions, insurance company decisions, Medicare and Medicaid decisions, you name it, it happens.

It's going to continue to happen. Should money be the primary arbiter of medical care rationing? Should the government? Should insurance companies? Should charities?

Because it's going to be one of them. Most of us are lucky enough never to need to think about rationing of medical care; our needs aren't that complex or expensive.

Wendy P.



Thank you, Wendy!


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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