DanG 1 #76 September 8, 2010 I find it funny that not a single "lib", either here or quoted in your previous post, have said they are against hisright to protest. Yet, that's what you want to hear, so that is what you hear. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #77 September 8, 2010 >are the same ones against an Americans right to Protest No one here is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #78 September 8, 2010 QuoteIf I'm at a large indoor event and yell, "There's a bomb! Fire!" and the crowd panics and 20 people die in the stampede, will I get charged with a crime? If some of our troops get killed as a direct result of this action, will the pastor be charged with a crime? If they are trampled by a panicked crowd and the crowd was panicked by the actions of someone in another country, then I would suppose you have a point. Reality is that someone would have to build an IED and/or pull a trigger otherwise wouldn't you say? Or are you claiming that bombs build themselves and bullets aim themselves and pull the triggers by telepathy?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #79 September 8, 2010 QuoteIf I'm at a large indoor event and yell, "There's a bomb! Fire!" and the crowd panics and 20 people die in the stampede, will I get charged with a crime? Yes. QuoteIf some of our troops get killed as a direct result of this action, will the pastor be charged with a crime? I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to see the difference here. Him burning books is not going to injure any soliders unless they are in Florida and breath in soem nasty smoke. There are a few significant independant actors that clearly severe the chain of proximate cause.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #80 September 8, 2010 >If I'm at a large indoor event and yell, "There's a bomb! Fire!" and the >crowd panics and 20 people die in the stampede, will I get charged with a >crime? Yes. >If some of our troops get killed as a direct result of this action, will the >pastor be charged with a crime? Yes. If he sets fire to a Koran and uses it to set some soldiers on fire, that would be a direct result and he should be charged with a crime. If he sets fire to it and a few weeks later someone decides to assassinate someone, then no, that's not a direct result and not a crime. Take a more local example. If you post something on here specifically to anger another poster, and they get so angry they kill their family - are you directly responsible for their deaths? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #81 September 8, 2010 QuoteIf you blame him for burning the book and pissing off the Islamofascists, shouldn't you blame the media for broadcasting the story. I mean, it's not like Iran or the Stans have got spies in Florida looking for book burners. If you're going to blame murder on someone other than the murders, why not blame everyone involved? Because you can blame multiple people or organizations for the same incident. Like a skydiving death, there is usually a chain of events leading up to it. If you remove one item of that chain, the end result will be different. Situations like this are very similar. Actions (legal or not) have consequences. Every right comes with a price. In this case the right to burn the Koran may well have the price of an American or Canadian soldier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #82 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteIf you blame him for burning the book and pissing off the Islamofascists, shouldn't you blame the media for broadcasting the story. I mean, it's not like Iran or the Stans have got spies in Florida looking for book burners. If you're going to blame murder on someone other than the murders, why not blame everyone involved? Because you can blame multiple people or organizations for the same incident. Like a skydiving death, there is usually a chain of events leading up to it. If you remove one item of that chain, the end result will be different. Situations like this are very similar. Actions (legal or not) have consequences. Every right comes with a price. In this case the right to burn the Koran may well have the price of an American or Canadian soldier. It is just as likely that not burning it would have worse consequenses.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #83 September 8, 2010 Quote What percentage of the muslim population do you know? Since spending nearly a year in Detroit, I have met and worked with many folks of the Muslim faith. As I had suspected, it's pretty similar to working with/knowing folks of the Christian/Hindu/Jewish faiths. Most people are decent and get outraged by the things that people in their faith do. Most Muslims are outraged by 9/11 (see here: http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=6771). Most Christians are outraged by abortion clinic bombings, gay bashings, priest molestings, etc. Do I have the statistical analysis to show that everywhere people are people? No. But I also try not to make assumptions for an incredibly large population based on the actions of a few. If the guy wants to burn the Quran, go for it. It won't really do anything, and he puts himself up for risk for an opposing "Burn the Bible" Day, which rolls off the tongue much better.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #84 September 8, 2010 QuoteIt is just as likely that not burning it would have worse consequenses. I don't see a logical chain of events in that direction. Can you expound on your statement and explain how not burning a Koran would have worse consequences? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #85 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt is just as likely that not burning it would have worse consequenses. I don't see a logical chain of events in that direction. Can you expound on your statement and explain how not burning a Koran would have worse consequences? If he was forced to not burn the koran . . . it would be much much worse.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #86 September 8, 2010 QuoteI find it funny that the same out spoken Libs that defend Muslims marching in protest , blocking off streets for thier Prayers, thier right to beat their wives, Thier rigth to hide thier faces in airports.... What libs defend all that? Are you making thing up again - say it aint so! Quoteare the same ones against an Americans right to Protest, in the manner he wishes, that is non violent, and hurts no one! I've not seen anyone say the government should prevent him from doing it. They've asked him not to, and while I don't think they should have even done that, it is only a request and not a demand.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #87 September 8, 2010 QuoteBottom line is that this clown Jones has a constitutional right to burn the book under freedom of speech, however with rights come responsibilities. With actions come reactions. By burning the Quran he will be directly responsible for the deaths of other Americans, maybe even his own. Not saying I support that, its just a fact waiting to happen. Can't you just feel the Fatwa's a simmering out there in the dry places of the middle east. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #88 September 8, 2010 Thanks Kennedy. I'm married to a District Attorney and we have already discussed this. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.Remember back when Geraldo Rivera gave out their position in Iraq when the war started? Everyone was up in arms about it. This is the same sort of issue. People in the US have the freedoms to do pretty much anything to protest a cause or issue. But like a poster upthread pointed out, the price in the case may be the life of a soldier. I think it's borderline treason to burn the book in a stupid PR stunt and then have riots start in the Middle East, resulting in harm to our forces. JMHO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #89 September 8, 2010 QuoteIf he was forced to not burn the koran . . . it would be much much worse. That's a completely different statement. (you must have a horrible case of ADD, cause every statement you make is off in a new direction) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #90 September 8, 2010 Geraldo giving away troop location? Treasonous Bible thumper moron burning a kuran? Idiocy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #91 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteIf he was forced to not burn the koran . . . it would be much much worse. That's a completely different statement. (you must have a horrible case of ADD, cause every statement you make is off in a new direction) You have trouble with compilations don't you? I stated: QuoteIt is just as likely that not burning it would have worse consequenses. You said: QuoteI don't see a logical chain of events in that direction. Can you expound on your statement and explain how not burning a Koran would have worse consequences? Being forced to not burn the koran is only one way of not burning the koran. you were unable to find "a logical chain of events" , I thought it was rather simple . . . so I provided it for you.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #92 September 8, 2010 QuoteBottom line is that this clown Jones has a constitutional right to burn the book under freedom of speech, however with rights come responsibilities. With actions come reactions. By burning the Quran he will be directly responsible for the deaths of other Americans, maybe even his own. Not saying I support that, its just a fact waiting to happen. sure, but that doesn't say anything more about the asshole does it. But if a group of people start killing people because some complete stranger on the other side of the world burns some books, that says more about the killers doesn't it. The pastor is NOT responsible for increased killing if it happens - he's only responsible for burning books. Increased murder is the responsibility of the killers only. By your logic, I guess if people start killing Muslims in France after the Imam builds that mosque in NY, then the Imam is responsible for those deaths...... or less directly, I should just say "I'm saying he's responsible, it's just going to happen, wait and see" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #93 September 8, 2010 Quote Quote Wow, General Petraeus ask that the burning should be discouraged to help protect the lives of American soldiers and the Republican leadership is silent on his comments? Even GWB had a "No comment" So much for supporting the troops. It's Bush's fault. Personally I would prefer the opinions of those who have studied the art of war, rather than those who ran as fast as they could and deserted during a war. General Petraeus has a far better grasp on how to manage conflicts and win battles. Being goat fuck stupid in time of war is well.............not doing a very good job of winning the hearts and minds of those we are trying to get to build a viable country insted of the third world shithole that spawns the fatwa a day crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #94 September 8, 2010 QuoteYou have trouble with compilations don't you? I know what you are, but what am I.... You added the forcing the second time. Nobody is forcing him to burn the Koran, just as nobody will force him not to burn the Koran. If he decides to burn the Koran, it may come with the price of a soldier. If he decides not to burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier. If he is forced not to burn the Koran, we are onto a whole different issue, hence the ADD comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #95 September 8, 2010 Quote Quote You have trouble with compilations don't you? I know what you are, but what am I.... You added the forcing the second time. Nobody is forcing him to burn the Koran, just as nobody will force him not to burn the Koran. If he decides to burn the Koran, it may come with the price of a soldier. If he decides not to burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier. If he is forced not to burn the Koran, we are onto a whole different issue, hence the ADD comment. How simple minded of you! By your math - If Jones burns the koran, soldiers will die, but conversely, ("If he decides not to burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier." )all we have to do is not burn the koran and no more soldiers will be killed in the name of allah. THAT's logic.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #96 September 8, 2010 QuoteHow simple minded of you! By your math - If Jones burns the koran, soldiers will die, but conversely, ("If he decides not to burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier." )all we have to do is not burn the koran and no more soldiers will be killed in the name of allah. There is quite a bit of misreading and bad logic in your statement. First, I said burning the Koran may come with the price of a soldier. NOT will come with that price. Secondly, the statement that if he doesn't burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier, is NOT the same same as no more soldiers will die in the name of allah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #97 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteHow simple minded of you! By your math - If Jones burns the koran, soldiers will die, but conversely, ("If he decides not to burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier." )all we have to do is not burn the koran and no more soldiers will be killed in the name of allah. There is quite a bit of misreading and bad logic in your statement. First, I said burning the Koran may come with the price of a soldier. NOT will come with that price. Secondly, the statement that if he doesn't burn the Koran, it will not come with the price of a soldier, is NOT the same same as no more soldiers will die in the name of allah. So one can logically conclude that no matter what we do - it may or may not end in the death of a soldier. Gotta love thos islamic extremists.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #98 September 8, 2010 QuoteSo one can logically conclude that no matter what we do - it may or may not end in the death of a soldier. No QuoteGotta love thos islamic extremists. Islamic extremists and logic are not the same. But with your constant resistance to logic, I can see how you might think they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #99 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo one can logically conclude that no matter what we do - it may or may not end in the death of a soldier. No QuoteGotta love thos islamic extremists. Islamic extremists and logic are not the same. But with your constant resistance to logic, I can see how you might think they are. No? You disagree with the statement that "No matter what we do - it may or may not end in the death of a soldier."I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #100 September 8, 2010 QuoteYou disagree with the statement that "No matter what we do - it may or may not end in the death of a soldier." Your statement is not correct related to the Koran burning issue we were discussing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
