nigel99 576
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Nataly 38
Quoteyeah they can be really funny. Just before the elections 2 of our staff stated they were voting UKIP as they were sick of "bloody foreigners coming here and telling them what to do!") - my wife and I are both immigrants and the as we own/run the company it got real quiet all of a sudden as the penny dropped!
The really funny thing is that I kind of think of "foreigners" as "them" as well (despite actually falling in the category myself)... But it's still strange that if you're from an affluent/English-speaking country you're perceived as not belonging to the group that gets discriminated against (Andy had a good point...). It's a weird/interesting dynamic... If people like me aren't "foreigners", what are we??!
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
Erroll 80
QuoteQuoteQuote... and becoming the next success story.
Purely as a matter if intereset (given that we have our own very serious problem down here), what is your ratio of success stories vs hard-luck stories?
Without pushing this into SC, just what "serious problem" are you referring to?
I mean, I'm not saying there aren't problems relating to immigration - I just think your comment could do with some expansion...
I also don't want to push this to SC, lest the usual suspects end up bashing Obama, Bush, Muslims, each other..
People ligitimately immigrating to SA are usually welcomed, but we have probably the most porous borders on the continent.....
nigel99 576
QuoteQuoteyeah they can be really funny. Just before the elections 2 of our staff stated they were voting UKIP as they were sick of "bloody foreigners coming here and telling them what to do!") - my wife and I are both immigrants and the as we own/run the company it got real quiet all of a sudden as the penny dropped!
The really funny thing is that I kind of think of "foreigners" as "them" as well (despite actually falling in the category myself)... But it's still strange that if you're from an affluent/English-speaking country you're perceived as not belonging to the group that gets discriminated against (Andy had a good point...). It's a weird/interesting dynamic... If people like me aren't "foreigners", what are we??!
I agree I will happily talk to the staff about foreigners. I disagree with you and Andy though, I think that many of the people who complain just don't do it to our faces - next time ask about Aussies or Kiwis I imagine there will be negative comments. Granted it looks like most drivers with no insurance, no license, petty crime etc are foreign and from Somalia, Nigeria or Poland mainly. I think that many whites from the colonies are accepted or tolerated more than others. I have largely got an english accent now and I do get people making remarks about my "foreign" wife!
In London it is different I have been in many tube carriages where it is pretty obvious that the people are not native to the UK (by race, dress code and language).
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.
QuoteQuote... and becoming the next success story.
Purely as a matter if intereset (given that we have our own very serious problem down here), what is your ratio of success stories vs hard-luck stories?
Some : A Bunch
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Nataly 38
QuoteI also don't want to push this to SC, lest the usual suspects end up bashing Obama, Bush, Muslims, each other..
People ligitimately immigrating to SA are usually welcomed, but we have probably the most porous borders on the continent.....
Ah. Gotcha. Well, illegal immigration is a whole other topic (discussed at length in SC, I'm sure!!)... This wasn't what everyone was discussing last night...
I just couldn't agree with my ex colleagues' apparent view that immigration as a whole is a BAD thing... I also couldn't reconcile the feeling that by "foreigners" they meant a certain stereotype, which in fact is quite at odds with reality... I certainly can understand that the mix of different ideas / cultures will inevitable lead to conflict / problems - it just seems like people often discount the *positives* that come from it. And to me this seems pretty irrational.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
ryoder 1,590
Quote
The really funny thing is that I kind of think of "foreigners" as "them" as well (despite actually falling in the category myself)... But it's still strange that if you're from an affluent/English-speaking country you're perceived as not belonging to the group that gets discriminated against (Andy had a good point...). It's a weird/interesting dynamic... If people like me aren't "foreigners", what are we??!
It's about culture, not nationality.
When people come into the US from the Southern border, they have darker hair, darker complexions, and speak Spanish.
When you Canucks come over the Northern border, we don't notice a difference until you add an "eh" on the end of your sentences, or (if from Quebec) have a French accent.
And since studies have found that most 'Merkuns like UK or French accents, that will more probably work in your favor.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.
Nataly 38
QuoteI agree I will happily talk to the staff about foreigners. I disagree with you and Andy though, I think that many of the people who complain just don't do it to our faces - next time ask about Aussies or Kiwis I imagine there will be negative comments.
Yeah. You're probably right. They probably don't talk much about Canadians, though, largely because there aren't many of us here. (Or maybe they talk about us all the time and I just never hear it!!
) There is an awful lot of anti-Americanism, however, and I *do* get a lot of flack for being "American" (no one over here seems to know how to spot that I'm a Canuck despite all my Canadian-flag apparel, my funny pronunciation of "a-boot" and my insistence on saying "eh" instead of "huh"!) 
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
NickDG 23
It's sad how a country of immigrants has become so anti-immigrant . . .
One day back in the early 90s I was working on Coronado Island in San Diego. I'd catch the ferry back and forth across the bay but this day (on my way home) I was a bit early so I walked down to sit on the sea wall and wait.
I looked down at the water and the rocks and saw what I first thought was a dead body. It was a man, fully clothed, laying half in and out of the water. Jumping down I put my hand on his shoulder and we both got a big scare when he suddenly jerked upright. He wasn't a man at all, he was boy probably 17 years old or so, he was ragged looking, and he tried to scramble out of my reach.
"Hola, Senior," I said in my best street Spanish, "Está bien usted?"
He looked at me and I could clearly see he was exhausted, but he nodded that he was indeed all right.
"La Migra?" He asked me.
"No," I said, "I'm not the immigration police."
It took a while but I got most of his story. He was from Chiapas, the most southern state in Mexico. He was trying to reach his Uncle’s house, an Uncle he'd never met that lived in Los Angeles. It had taken him a couple of months to get this far, and from what I could understand it sounded like he walked most of the way, hitchhiked some, and hopped a freight train or two. That's a journey of over two thousand miles. My God, I thought, the balls on this kid.
Coronado only looks like an island when you see it from the city of San Diego. It's actually a peninsula connected on its south side to the mainland. I took it he got passed the U.S. - Mexico boarder by swimming around it via the Pacific Ocean and landing somewhere in Imperial Beach. No small feat considering he would have to get out past the breakers to do so. All up it was probably a two mile swim in rough cold water. But now he was stuck. He was trying to reach the Amtrak Station in San Diego but couldn't figure out a way across the bay. I guess he actually tried to swim for it, but realizing he was to so tired he turned back and that's when I found him. This kid was totally out of gas.
I took him up to a little food stand that sold Gyros and bought him two and Coke. He didn't know what a Gyro was but gobbled them down and laughed when I told him they were Greek Tacos. He showed me a train ticket and a U.S. fifty dollar bill he had carefully folded up in a plastic bag. He also had his Uncle’s phone number. The last thing he showed me was a photograph of his mother and what appeared to be several younger brothers and sisters. It wasn’t a very happy looking picture as they all looked to be at the end of their ropes too. I wasn't sure the ticket he had was still any good but by then I had decided to help this kid out and we'd deal with the ticket thing when the time came.
He totally looked like what he was. So I bought him some fresh clothes and a cap in one of the tourist shops and sent him into one of the rest rooms to clean up. While he was doing that I purchased another ferry ticket. Sometimes in the past I’d occasionally seen Boarder Patrol agents riding the ferry and checking people out. So we waited until it was about to pull out before jumping aboard at the last minute. His English was limited to yes and no, but not always at the appropriate time, so I told him if anyone said anything to us I’d do the talking and he should just smile and nod a lot.
The ride across the bay was uneventful and I was looking at the train ticket he had. I think I got that his Uncle had sent it to him, but I wasn’t 100 percent sure it was still good. Worse was even though he took great pains to protect it, it looked like it had been through the mill. I considered buying him a fresh ticket but realized my name would be on and the possible consequences of that if something went awry. But I decided to chance it. I could always say I lost the ticket and there was something in this kid’s eyes that told me, no matter what, he’d never give me up.
I actually considered going straight to my boat (I was living on a sailboat at the time in Harbor Island) and getting my truck and just driving him up to Los Angeles. But there was an immigration checkpoint on the I-5 freeway between here and there, and while I don’t mind a reasonable amount of trouble, that dealio, if we were caught, would be a bit too much.
I stashed him on a bench outside the station and went inside were I bought a one-way ticket to LA’s Union Station, a newspaper, and a Los Angeles street map. There was a Pacific Surfliner already sitting in the station pointing north and it was about a half hour away from leaving. I explained to him that after he found a seat, how to put the ticket onto the back of the seat in front of him, and to hold up the newspaper up in front of himself like he was engrossed in reading. And not to talk to anyone or move around once he was seated. Hopefully, when the conductor came by he’d just grab the ticket off the seatback, punch it, and that would be that. I also told him not to go all the way to Union Station. That place was always full of cops and immigration officials looking for guys like him. I told him to get off in Fullerton, the last stop before LA, and call his Uncle from there. If for some reason his people couldn’t come for him, but he got an address, I told him to use the fifty bucks he had on a cab as that would be the safest way. His only problem now was sometimes the Boarder Patrol rode on the Amtrak too, and they could come aboard anywhere along the line. There’s was nothing we could do about that, and if it happened, he’d just be shit out of luck.
People were beginning to board the train now and I saw the conductor standing by the door checking tickets. We just watched for a bit until I was sure he saw how it worked, shook his hand, and watched him go for it. He walked up and got in line like he knew exactly what he was doing. Meanwhile, I was shaking in my boots.
He flashed his ticket at the conductor who didn’t look twice at him and the air came out of me like a popped balloon. I walked around to the other side of the train and watched through the window as he sat down and placed his ticket just like I showed him. I looked around hoping not to see any Boarder Patrol agents. I’m not sure what I would’ve done if I saw any moving toward the train, maybe walk up and start a fight with someone as a diversion, LOL.
I’ve often thought of him over the years. Wondering how he made out and what became of him. I hope to God he made it. But I remember one thing like it was yesterday. As the train slowly pulled out, there he sat, engrossed in that newspaper he couldn’t read, looking so confident and I was so proud on him. He ever so slightly looked my way for just a second and smiled a silent thank you. And I thought to myself, now there goes a real American. My god, the balls on that kid . . .
NickD 
Nataly 38
Ok.. Well, this wasn't about politics, guns or religion, so not sure why this got moved here.. ![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
But now that it is I'm going to politely step away because I'm not interested in talking about any of the above in relation to this topic.
Happy posting.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss
QuoteWhen you Canucks come over the Northern border, we don't notice a difference until you add an "eh" on the end of your sentences
I don't append "eh" to my sentences ... but what outed me when I lived amongst you Merkuns was when I was "Out and a boat".
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
It is just political posturing. Trying to get voters to pick them.
Actually, they are missing an essential distinction.
Most people who are wealthy, regard the non-wealthy as a convenient source of workers. They don't actually care where those workers come from. It doesn't concern them because they won't be associating with them.
Most large companies are doing business with overseas companies. The most apparent are the overseas production of manufactured goods that are sold in large retail outlets. Outsourced call centers and software development.
There is no "us/foreigners". There are only the wealthy and their employees.
Actually, they are missing an essential distinction.
Most people who are wealthy, regard the non-wealthy as a convenient source of workers. They don't actually care where those workers come from. It doesn't concern them because they won't be associating with them.
Most large companies are doing business with overseas companies. The most apparent are the overseas production of manufactured goods that are sold in large retail outlets. Outsourced call centers and software development.
There is no "us/foreigners". There are only the wealthy and their employees.
Tf15 0
QuoteQuoteI also don't want to push this to SC, lest the usual suspects end up bashing Obama, Bush, Muslims, each other..
People ligitimately immigrating to SA are usually welcomed, but we have probably the most porous borders on the continent.....
Ah. Gotcha. Well, illegal immigration is a whole other topic (discussed at length in SC, I'm sure!!)... This wasn't what everyone was discussing last night...
I just couldn't agree with my ex colleagues' apparent view that immigration as a whole is a BAD thing... I also couldn't reconcile the feeling that by "foreigners" they meant a certain stereotype, which in fact is quite at odds with reality... I certainly can understand that the mix of different ideas / cultures will inevitable lead to conflict / problems - it just seems like people often discount the *positives* that come from it. And to me this seems pretty irrational.
If the bloody foreigners went home pretty much all US research facilities would close down (national labs, research universities, corporate labs, etc). The US got the atom bomb in WWII as a result of the work of bloody foreigners (Fermi, Szilard, Taylor, Bethe, Frisch, Teller and others).
Three times is enemy action
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteI also don't want to push this to SC, lest the usual suspects end up bashing Obama, Bush, Muslims, each other..
People ligitimately immigrating to SA are usually welcomed, but we have probably the most porous borders on the continent.....
Ah. Gotcha. Well, illegal immigration is a whole other topic (discussed at length in SC, I'm sure!!)... This wasn't what everyone was discussing last night...
I just couldn't agree with my ex colleagues' apparent view that immigration as a whole is a BAD thing... I also couldn't reconcile the feeling that by "foreigners" they meant a certain stereotype, which in fact is quite at odds with reality... I certainly can understand that the mix of different ideas / cultures will inevitable lead to conflict / problems - it just seems like people often discount the *positives* that come from it. And to me this seems pretty irrational.
If the bloody foreigners went home pretty much all US research facilities would close down (national labs, research universities, corporate labs, etc). The US got the atom bomb in WWII as a result of the work of bloody foreigners (Fermi, Szilard, Taylor, Bethe, Frisch, Teller and others).
That was then - unless you have lists of currently employees?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Tf15 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI also don't want to push this to SC, lest the usual suspects end up bashing Obama, Bush, Muslims, each other..
People ligitimately immigrating to SA are usually welcomed, but we have probably the most porous borders on the continent.....
Ah. Gotcha. Well, illegal immigration is a whole other topic (discussed at length in SC, I'm sure!!)... This wasn't what everyone was discussing last night...
I just couldn't agree with my ex colleagues' apparent view that immigration as a whole is a BAD thing... I also couldn't reconcile the feeling that by "foreigners" they meant a certain stereotype, which in fact is quite at odds with reality... I certainly can understand that the mix of different ideas / cultures will inevitable lead to conflict / problems - it just seems like people often discount the *positives* that come from it. And to me this seems pretty irrational.
If the bloody foreigners went home pretty much all US research facilities would close down (national labs, research universities, corporate labs, etc). The US got the atom bomb in WWII as a result of the work of bloody foreigners (Fermi, Szilard, Taylor, Bethe, Frisch, Teller and others).
That was then - unless you have lists of currently employees?
I've worked at 3 different National Labs and one military lab. I can assure you that the fraction of foreign born PhD researchers is around 50% (even more at Argonne). Huge numbers born in India or China.
Did you know that in 2002, some 130,821, or nearly one-third, of all graduate students enrolled at US universities came from abroad? Over half of PhDs awarded by US universities go to students born in india, S. Korea, China or Taiwan. In some branches of engineering and in computer science it's over 60%
Three times is enemy action
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteThat was then - unless you have lists of currently employees?
I've worked at 3 different National Labs and one military lab. I can assure you that the fraction of foreign born PhD researchers is around 50% (even more at Argonne). Huge numbers born in India or China.
In your 4 examples, anyway.
QuoteDid you know that in 2002, some 130,821, or nearly one-third, of all graduate students enrolled at US universities came from abroad? Over half of PhDs awarded by US universities go to students born in india, S. Korea, China or Taiwan. In some branches of engineering and in computer science it's over 60%
Given the state of the educational system in the States, that doesn't surprise me at all.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
turtlespeed 226
Quote
If the bloody foreigners went home pretty much all US research facilities would close down (national labs, research universities, corporate labs, etc). The US got the atom bomb in WWII as a result of the work of bloody foreigners (Fermi, Szilard, Taylor, Bethe, Frisch, Teller and others).
As much as that may be true . . . the thread is about England.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
yeah they can be really funny. Just before the elections 2 of our staff stated they were voting UKIP as they were sick of "bloody foreigners coming here and telling them what to do!") - my wife and I are both immigrants and the as we own/run the company it got real quiet all of a sudden as the penny dropped!
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