What is the point of the Old Testament?

[Skyrad 0]

As whenever anything from the Old Testament is mentioned we hear time and time again 'Oh, yea, well thats in the Old Testament' like it doesn't count. Yet the Ten comandments are in the Old Testament and they are still a cornerstone of Christian belief... Arn't they? So whys the deal? Is the Old Testament written off by the New Testament in which case why not detach it from the Bible and just call the New Testament the Bible. Or, is it still valid and therefore Christians are doing a pick and pick as they see fit? Ya can't have it both ways boys and girls... Can you?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[headoverheels 334]

It's like classical physics and quantum mechanics. Both have their application.

[quade 4]

The purpose of the Old Testament is to establish ONE god out of the pantheon of thousands others religions believe in. Without doing that, the Jesus story falls flat because it makes him just one of hundreds of other beatniks. The Jesus story claims him as THE Son of THE God, so we have to know which god we're talking about. If it's the ONE god that was such an asshole in the Old Testament, but he is now the god of compassion in the second, then he's not only redeemed us, but himself as well.

It really does make sense.

Unfortunately, it falls apart entirely if you begin to take Genesis seriously.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

But with the New Testament contridicting the Old Testament why then does Jesus state when asked 'I did not come to change the laws of Mosses'? Seeing as Christians now use the Jesus stories of the New Testament to abandon the Laws of Mosses?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

As whenever anything from the Old Testament is mentioned we hear time and time again 'Oh, yea, well thats in the Old Testament' like it doesn't count. Yet the Ten comandments are in the Old Testament and they are still a cornerstone of Christian belief... Arn't they? So whys the deal? Is the Old Testament written off by the New Testament in which case why not detach it from the Bible and just call the New Testament the Bible. Or, is it still valid and therefore Christians are doing a pick and pick as they see fit? Ya can't have it both ways boys and girls... Can you?

If later verses of the Qu'ran abrogate earlier verses, why can't the New Testament abrogate some of the Old?

Ya can't have it both ways....can you?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

But with the New Testament contridicting the Old Testament why then does Jesus state when asked 'I did not come to change the laws of Mosses'? Seeing as Christians now use the Jesus stories of the New Testament to abandon the Laws of Mosses?

Understand, I'm not talking about how modern people have interpreted things, I'm talking about the basic construction of epic myth.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

Remember, the first five books are about the only thing Jews, Muslims, and Christians agree on. Jews go by the five books plus other writings and interpretations. Muslims tend to agree that Muhammad is the one great last prophet and the Quran is Allah openning the prophet's eyes and the later ideas outweigh the earlier ones and that submission is most important. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the one great prophet and the son of god, and that later ideas outweigh earlier ones and that belief and right choice is the most important thing.

True believers and theological scholars please feel free to add or correct as necessary.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

It's like classical physics and quantum mechanics. Both have their application.

I was gonna say Cantonese and Szechuan.... but yours is good, too.

[billvon 3,111]

>If later verses of the Qu'ran abrogate earlier verses, why can't the
>New Testament abrogate some of the Old?

Matthew 5:17-20

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

However, that does not mean that the Law (i.e. the Old Testament) is completely valid; both the Old Testament and the New Testament are subject to errors in transcription, translation and interpretation. That's true of any book inspired by oral tradition and handed down (and translated) over the ages.

[happythoughts 0]

To provide goatherds with some rules 3000 years ago.

To make sure that girls stayed virgins until they were at least 10.

To control the population with a combination of violence and fear using myths. (This is, surprisingly, still a working technique)

[Amazon 7]

Quote

As whenever anything from the Old Testament is mentioned we hear time and time again 'Oh, yea, well thats in the Old Testament' like it doesn't count. Yet the Ten comandments are in the Old Testament and they are still a cornerstone of Christian belief... Arn't they? So whys the deal? Is the Old Testament written off by the New Testament in which case why not detach it from the Bible and just call the New Testament the Bible. Or, is it still valid and therefore Christians are doing a pick and pick as they see fit? Ya can't have it both ways boys and girls... Can you?

Well there was a WHOLE lot of Begattin goin on...in the old testament.... just sayin

[dj123 0]

Quote

The purpose of the Old Testament is to establish ONE god out of the pantheon of thousands others religions believe in. Without doing that, the Jesus story falls flat because it makes him just one of hundreds of other beatniks. The Jesus story claims him as THE Son of THE God, so we have to know which god we're talking about. If it's the ONE god that was such an asshole in the Old Testament, but he is now the god of compassion in the second, then he's not only redeemed us, but himself as well. It really does make sense.

Unfortunately, it falls apart entirely if you begin to take Genesis seriously.

You, and I mean the collective you, just don't quite understand yet.
Soon all of you will understand .

In the mean time don't be too harsh with the "Christians" who parrot , they for the most part are good people who just don't understand.

Don't be harsh toward the Jews amongst us, for they are good as well. They only lack understanding.

The same for our Muslim brothers.

and all of those religions and the followers of those religions.


Soon all will understand and peace will - throughout.

Blue Skies,
DJ

[quade 4]

Quote

You, and I mean the collective you, just don't quite understand yet.
Soon all of you will understand .

In the mean time don't be too harsh with the "Christians" who parrot , they for the most part are good people who just don't understand.

Don't be harsh toward the Jews amongst us, for they are good as well. They only lack understanding.

The same for our Muslim brothers.

and all of those religions and the followers of those religions.


Soon all will understand and peace will - throughout.

Blue Skies,
DJ

Well, maybe. But with replies like that, non-specific and without any sort of useable direction, somehow I doubt what you've written is doing much to help.

What ARE you talking about?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Remember, the first five books are about the only thing Jews, Muslims, and Christians agree on. Jews go by the five books plus other writings and interpretations. Muslims tend to agree that Muhammad is the one great last prophet and the Quran is Allah openning the prophet's eyes and the later ideas outweigh the earlier ones and that submission is most important. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the one great prophet and the son of god, and that later ideas outweigh earlier ones and that belief and right choice is the most important thing.

True believers and theological scholars please feel free to add or correct as necessary.

Even Mohammad says that he was lower in the chain of command in regards to Jesus.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[dj123 0]

Quote

Quote

You, and I mean the collective you, just don't quite understand yet.
Soon all of you will understand .

In the mean time don't be too harsh with the "Christians" who parrot , they for the most part are good people who just don't understand.

Don't be harsh toward the Jews amongst us, for they are good as well. They only lack understanding.

The same for our Muslim brothers.

and all of those religions and the followers of those religions.


Soon all will understand and peace will - throughout.

Blue Skies,
DJ

Well, maybe. But with replies like that, non-specific and without any sort of useable direction, somehow I doubt it what you've written is doing much to help.

What ARE you talking about?

Oh.., I'm talking about the universal fix-all.
The one constant which also expands exponentialy.

Got any guesses?

Blue Skies,
DF

[quade 4]

Quote

Oh.., I'm talking about the universal fix-all.
The one constant which also expands exponentialy.

Got any guesses?

No. Spell it out.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[dj123 0]

Quote

Quote

Oh.., I'm talking about the universal fix-all.
The one constant which also expands exponentialy.

Got any guesses?

No. Spell it out.

I knew you didn't understand.

You couldnt be expected to considering all that you've been through. (again this is the collective you)

What Im talking about is "unconditional love" Brother Quade.

Blue Skies,
DJ

[quade 4]

Quote

What Im talking about is "unconditional love" Brother Quade.

How "unconditional" is it if the guy starts dishing out rules right off the top? We ARE talking about the Old Testament here. Break a rule, get tossed out of the garden. Look the wrong way and get turned into a pillar of salt. God doesn't like you the way you're doing things; he floods the planet, then hands out 10 (or is it 15?) rules that MUST be obeyed no matter what.

Seems pretty conditional to me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CornishChris 5]

Quote

But with the New Testament contridicting the Old Testament why then does Jesus state when asked 'I did not come to change the laws of Mosses'? Seeing as Christians now use the Jesus stories of the New Testament to abandon the Laws of Mosses?

The Laws of Mosses eh? Is that things like "Though shalt not covet thy neighbour's moss"; "Honour the sabbath and keep it mossy".

I'm surprised they were able to come up with ten laws specifically related to moss... ;-)

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[shropshire 0]

One reason and one reason only ....... Spin.

'They' can spin any situation that they want by quoting some passgae out of some old, moldy book.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[CornishChris 5]

Some old mossy book?

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[winsor 236]

Quote

As whenever anything from the Old Testament is mentioned we hear time and time again 'Oh, yea, well thats in the Old Testament' like it doesn't count. Yet the Ten comandments are in the Old Testament and they are still a cornerstone of Christian belief... Arn't they? So whys the deal? Is the Old Testament written off by the New Testament in which case why not detach it from the Bible and just call the New Testament the Bible. Or, is it still valid and therefore Christians are doing a pick and pick as they see fit? Ya can't have it both ways boys and girls... Can you?

"Old Testment?" No such thing. "Old" presumes that "new" is a continuation, and nothing could be further from the truth.

There are 613 Commandments - but who's counting?

The Hebrew Scriptures are a Bronze Age family history. A big, dysfunctional family perhaps, but a family nonetheless.

There is no claim to universality in the Tanakh, and the audience is by no means "all of mankind." Judaism is a tribal, not religious, identity, though the religious traditions of the tribe are laid out in these tomes.

The groups who have taken these texts and put them into their own cultural context have done so to their own detriment. Torah without Mishna and Gemara is only a partial picture, and the Roman and Mecca crowds are given to blind faith, rather than review, reflection and question.


BSBD,

Winsor

[tkhayes 348]

yay! we agree on something....

I always wondered why it is called "Greek Mythology" but so many call something else "Christian Science".

sadly the Bible, new and old testaments are filled with massive contradictions and yes they apparently can have it both ways.....even if it makes no sense.

Maybe that's why so many Christians are in government - with that kind of belief structure - they make GREAT politicians.....

TK

[Kennedy 0]

Well since many of your 613 cannot be followed anymore, and the vast majority of Jews don't follow them anymore, why bother to enumerate them?

Tell me Windsor, have you ever shaved your beard with a razor? Cut your hair?
Have any tattoos? Ever written the Torah? Burn incense everyday? Shagged before marriage?
Eaten shellfish? Eaten fruit from a tree less than three years old? Eaten grapes or drank wine?
Married a non-Jew? Borrowed or lent with interest. My personal favorite, even had someone break the neck of a calf by a river valley following an unsolved murder?

(by the way it's worth asking all three faiths these questions)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*