Who Is The Man Behind The Ground Zero Mosque?

[billvon 3,114]

>I agree . . . let them make the call.

Agreed as well.

>Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote.

Done!

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On May 25, 2010, neighborhood authorities in a non-binding advisory vote backed part of the plans for Cordoba House to be built on the site. The endorsement related only to "the important community facilities [the project] will provide", and the resolution indicated that the board "takes no position regarding the religious aspects or any religious facilities associated with either the Cordoba Initiative or the Cordoba House Project". The board's chairwoman, Julie Menin, supported deletion of references to the building as a mosque and interfaith center that were in an earlier draft of the resolution, saying: "I personally was uncomfortable with the language that talked about the religious institution. I believe it's not the purview of a city agency to be weighing in on the siting of any religious institution, be it a mosque, synagogue, or church."

The vote by the Lower Manhattan Community Board 1 was 29-to-1, with 10 abstentions.
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[turtlespeed 226]

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>I agree . . . let them make the call.

Agreed as well.

>Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote.

Done!

===============
On May 25, 2010, neighborhood authorities in a non-binding advisory vote backed part of the plans for Cordoba House to be built on the site. The endorsement related only to "the important community facilities [the project] will provide", and the resolution indicated that the board "takes no position regarding the religious aspects or any religious facilities associated with either the Cordoba Initiative or the Cordoba House Project". The board's chairwoman, Julie Menin, supported deletion of references to the building as a mosque and interfaith center that were in an earlier draft of the resolution, saying: "I personally was uncomfortable with the language that talked about the religious institution. I believe it's not the purview of a city agency to be weighing in on the siting of any religious institution, be it a mosque, synagogue, or church."

The vote by the Lower Manhattan Community Board 1 was 29-to-1, with 10 abstentions.
==============

You said to let the community - It was not a public vote. I am willing to bet that the actual numbers would be VERY different.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,594]

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I agree . . . let them make the call - Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote.

Ok, so you do want to take away their constitutional rights

A very large part of the constitution exists to protect minorities from the whim of the majority. If you put stuff like this to direct vote what do you end up with? Nothing but Mormon temples in Utah, nothing but Catholic churches in Boston, nothing but Baptist churches in the bible belt (or wherever baptist country is)... is that right?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 226]

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I agree . . . let them make the call - Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote.

Ok, so you do want to take away their constitutional rights

A very large part of the constitution exists to protect minorities from the whim of the majority. If you put stuff like this to direct vote what do you end up with? Nothing but Mormon temples in Utah, nothing but Catholic churches in Boston, nothing but Baptist churches in the bible belt (or wherever baptist country is)... is that right?

Now i can't agree with Billvon about any of this?

Gheese make up your minds.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,114]

>You said to let the community - It was not a public vote.

?? I thought you were talking about an HOA? Typically they have a board that votes on stuff like this; the board represents homeowners.

Did you mean a popular vote? In that case, the most recent poll of Manhattanites shows that 59% are not opposed to a mosque at that location.

(But in any case, while that's interesting, popular sentiment should not dictate where people can build churches. I'm sure you would not appreciate your new business getting closed down because 51% of people in a nearby city did not like it.)

[turtlespeed 226]

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>You said to let the community - It was not a public vote.

?? I thought you were talking about an HOA? Typically they have a board that votes on stuff like this; the board represents homeowners.

Did you mean a popular vote? In that case, the most recent poll of Manhattanites shows that 59% are not opposed to a mosque at that location.

(But in any case, while that's interesting, popular sentiment should not dictate where people can build churches. I'm sure you would not appreciate your new business getting closed down because 51% of people in a nearby city did not like it.)

Our HOA is comprised of every home owner. We have votes and it includes the entire neighborhood.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,114]

>Our HOA is comprised of every home owner. We have votes and it includes
>the entire neighborhood.

Ah, OK. Ours is a bit different; it has a council that votes on policy stuff.

[happythoughts 0]

When just looking at this years terrorism arrests, what about the Times Square bomber ? Or Najibullah Zazi, the subway bomber ?

Are these people receiving open support for their opinions and actions at their mosques ?

Zazi came to New York last year near the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks to kill himself and others on the subway using a homemade bomb. He stated a direct correlation between Sept 11 and his bomb attack.

If Zazi had succeeded, nobody would be having this conversation.

[billvon 3,114]

>Are these people receiving open support for their opinions and actions at
>their mosques ?

Alternatively, are mosques like this one one of the forces making sure that people like Zazi are not emulated?

[rushmc 23]

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>Allowed . . . yes.

Agreed.

>Is it right? No.

I haven't seen anything that would really make it right or wrong. It is desired by the local community, and indeed the council that approved it listed several benefits that the local community would enjoy from it. That seems like a good thing, but that's better decided by the locals than by me.

It is violently opposed by right wing extremists, who regularly claim that it's on Ground Zero, it will be a "victory over the US" trophy, that it is run by terrorists and that it will be used as a terror base. They're full of shit and honestly I could care less about them.

Your point of "what if?" is a good example of why it might _turn_out_ to be a bad idea. But it is equally likely that it will serve as a demonstration that Muslims aren't all evil, and that by having a very public beneficial effect locally, it could well help to reduce hatred and violence towards Muslims in other parts of the country. That would be a very good thing.

So we have a project that might turn out to be a good thing, might turn out to be a bad thing. Sounds like just about every other project in Manhattan. Their neighborhood, their call.

I agree . . . let them make the call - Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote.

And this is what would have happened until Obama opened his yap

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,594]

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And this is what would have happened until Obama opened his yap

?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,114]

>?

It's the standard "I hate Obama" post. Sort of a requirement here for any thread.

[rushmc 23]

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>?

It's the standard "I hate Obama" post. Sort of a requirement here for any thread.

Well just another bull shit twist statement you make again here sir

It was reported that until Obama mentioned the issuse it was mostly local and was getting little national coverage. There was some talk of it on the cable networks and on talk radio. Nothing like it is now

until

Then Obama (with out his teleprompter) opens his mouth on the supject and it goes national and viral.

So here we have another post requirment for the tingley leg supporter of Obama who cant take any comment about the Presidency because of who is in office and who voted for them

Can you sleep at nights with all this going on?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,594]

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Quote

>?

It's the standard "I hate Obama" post. Sort of a requirement here for any thread.

Well just another bull shit twist statement you make again here sir

It was reported that until Obama mentioned the issuse it was mostly local and was getting little national coverage. There was some talk of it on the cable networks and on talk radio. Nothing like it is now

until

Then Obama (with out his teleprompter) opens his mouth on the supject and it goes national and viral.

So here we have another post requirment for the tingley leg supporter of Obama who cant take any comment about the Presidency because of who is in office and who voted for them

Can you sleep at nights with all this going on?

So A) All the stupid right wing histeria is Obama's fault? It's Obama's fault that you think it's a victory mosque? It's Obama's fault that FoxNews et al are trying to imply it's linked with terrorists by throwing out all these vague but ominous "follow the money" soundbites? You're supposed to be a right winger - take responsibility for your own actions.

And B) That's not what you said. You said it would have been put to a vote in Manhattan if Obama hadn't opened his mouth. To which I again reply "?".

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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>?

It's the standard "I hate Obama" post. Sort of a requirement here for any thread.

Well just another bull shit twist statement you make again here sir

It was reported that until Obama mentioned the issuse it was mostly local and was getting little national coverage. There was some talk of it on the cable networks and on talk radio. Nothing like it is now

until

Then Obama (with out his teleprompter) opens his mouth on the supject and it goes national and viral.

So here we have another post requirment for the tingley leg supporter of Obama who cant take any comment about the Presidency because of who is in office and who voted for them

Can you sleep at nights with all this going on?

So A) All the stupid right wing histeria is Obama's fault? It's Obama's fault that you think it's a victory mosque? It's Obama's fault that FoxNews et al are trying to imply it's linked with terrorists by throwing out all these vague but ominous "follow the money" soundbites? You're supposed to be a right winger - take responsibility for your own actions.

And B) That's not what you said. You said it would have been put to a vote in Manhattan if Obama hadn't opened his mouth. To which I again reply "?".

See, there you go making stupid assumptions again

And this is not a right wing left wing issue though you want it to be it seems

No, I said it would have stayed a local issue most likely if Obama had not opened his yap and that is what some of the major news sources said. That is where I got it

As for the vote part???? not likely and that is not what I was commenting to as my reply to billvon indicates

What came up after your hero spoke is another issue to big boy

Not stop assuming what you want people to mean and read what they post

You will look less silly that way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,594]

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No, I said it would have stayed a local issue most likely if Obama had not opened his yap and that is what some of the major news sources said. That is where I got it

As for the vote part???? not likely and that is not what I was commenting to as my reply to billvon indicates

And how the fuck was anyone supposed to know that from reading your post?

You replied to Turtle. Turtle said "I agree . . . let them make the call - Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote." You said "And this is what would have happened until Obama opened his yap" What does that mean to you? Is it any surprise that you're constantly accusing people of twisting your words and making assumptions about your stance when what you say is apparently completely unrelated to what you mean?

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Not stop assuming what you want people to mean and read what they post

I did read what you posted and I assumed you meant what you said. To know what you actually meant I would have to have been fucking psychic. If you can't be clear and unambiguous in your statements then it is your fault when people think you mean something you didn't mean.

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No, I said it would have stayed a local issue most likely if Obama had not opened his yap and that is what some of the major news sources said. That is where I got it

Once again, Obama didn't make anyone react with hysteria. Obama didn't make anyone create these 'victory mosque' ideas or insinuate links with terrorism. Obama didn't create the controversy that the Networks are having such a great time with. And if Obama hadn't said anything about it then you'd probably criticise him for ducking the issue.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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No, I said it would have stayed a local issue most likely if Obama had not opened his yap and that is what some of the major news sources said. That is where I got it

As for the vote part???? not likely and that is not what I was commenting to as my reply to billvon indicates

And how the fuck was anyone supposed to know that from reading your post?

You replied to Turtle. Turtle said "I agree . . . let them make the call - Just like a HOA let them put it up for a vote." You said "And this is what would have happened until Obama opened his yap" What does that mean to you? Is it any surprise that you're constantly accusing people of twisting your words and making assumptions about your stance when what you say is apparently completely unrelated to what you mean?

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Not stop assuming what you want people to mean and read what they post

I did read what you posted and I assumed you meant what you said. To know what you actually meant I would have to have been fucking psychic. If you can't be clear and unambiguous in your statements then it is your fault when people think you mean something you didn't mean.

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No, I said it would have stayed a local issue most likely if Obama had not opened his yap and that is what some of the major news sources said. That is where I got it

Once again, Obama didn't make anyone react with hysteria. Obama didn't make anyone create these 'victory mosque' ideas or insinuate links with terrorism. Obama didn't create the controversy that the Networks are having such a great time with. And if Obama hadn't said anything about it then you'd probably criticise him for ducking the issue.

First off I would have to agree there is some kind of hysteria which I dont. IMO is it a legit issue so that part of your post is crap

Second, yes I did post to his comment that I clarified later

Third, if Obama had stayed out of it we would most likely not be posting about it right now
He made it a national issue by not staying out of an ussue yet again

And again you make stupid blind assumptions about what I may have commented about if Obama had kept out of it like he should have

You need anger management classes dude

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,594]

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First off I would have to agree there is some kind of hysteria which I dont. IMO is it a legit issue

You think it's a legitimate issue but you'd prefer that no-one is talking about it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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First off I would have to agree there is some kind of hysteria which I dont. IMO is it a legit issue

You think it's a legitimate issue but you'd prefer that no-one is talking about it?

Sheesh dude

It could have been a legit issue locally or nationaly


And wtf do you care about it anyway?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 893]

Don't you find it interesting that the outcry started THREE MONTHS PRIOR to President Obama's comments??

I do.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I am wondering if the NRA would support these muslims standing in front of their mosque, on ground zero, with fully automatic rifles.

What say you JohnRich, Turtle, Rush, Mneal? How strong is your support of the 2nd?

[jakee 1,594]

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Sheesh dude

It could have been a legit issue locally or nationaly

Is it a legitimate national issue?

Is it wrong that the networks are talking about it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pirana 0]

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News: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who-is-the-man-behind-the-ground-zero-mosque/

Sure, we can trust him to have pure motives and to tell the truth...

Why, is somebody back there taking a leak again? Probably just too much fluid intake. Maybe install a porta-potty back there.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[turtlespeed 226]

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I am wondering if the NRA would support these muslims standing in front of their mosque, on ground zero, with fully automatic rifles.

What say you JohnRich, Turtle, Rush, Mneal? How strong is your support of the 2nd?

It depends on lthe legality of the actions. It seems like it would be illegal as it would be brandishhing a firearm.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnRich 4]

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I am wondering if the NRA would support these muslims standing in front of their mosque, on ground zero, with fully automatic rifles.

What say you JohnRich, Turtle, Rush, Mneal? How strong is your support of the 2nd?

First of all, your hypothetical example would be better if you hadn't said fully automatic rifles, since those are highly regulated, and few have them. That in itself would bring scrutiny and possible arrests.

Second, I don't believe New York law would allow it, even if they were only semi-auto rifles.

Some liberals here like to bash Texas, but we've had incidents of Black Panthers protesting the death penalty here in Texas, by marching around the prison where the executions are carried out, armed with rifles. And nothing bad happens, as they are careful not to point them in a threatening manner. That's legal in Texas.

Building a mosque is legal, but it's not good public relations to do it at ground zero.
Groups parading around in public with rifles can be legal too, but is also not good public relations.

If building good public relations is your stated goal, then you should avoid these kinds of activities.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it.

Here's an example of a muslim going about mending relations the wrong way:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_nm/us_dutch_wilders