WHy is someone that doesnt agree with or trust Islam labeled a racist?

[normiss 892]

Good thing Christians have never hated each other, huh?
Just ask the Irish.

[Amazon 7]

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Someone who does not trust someone who is Muslim purely because they are Muslim is a bigot. Someone who extends that to Arabs is a racist.

and previously from Amazon:

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I CERTAINLY do not trust most adherants to Islam.

hmmm . . .

Bigotry is a form of racism is it not, and/or vice versa?

You REALLLLLY do not want to compare my acceptance of other human beings to those of you who purport to be good patriotic christian americans on this forum.

Most of you would lose hands down on SOOOO many levels

[shropshire 0]

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Reading is FUN DA MENTAL

Y'cain't trust a Fundamentalist even those that fink that reading is fundamental

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[turtlespeed 226]

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You REALLLLLY do not want to compare my acceptance of other human beings to those of you who purport to be good patriotic christian americans on this forum.

Most of you would lose hands down on SOOOO many levels

THAT is the funniest post EVER.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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You REALLLLLY do not want to compare my acceptance of other human beings to those of you who purport to be good patriotic christian americans on this forum.

Most of you would lose hands down on SOOOO many levels

THAT is the funniest post EVER.

Do you ever actually hear.. the huge whoooooooshing sound that is such a huge daily part of your life????

[happythoughts 0]

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When in THIS COUNTRY.... I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions..

BBQ ?

I think they already have their own traditions and
don't want yours forced on them.
That is what cultural diversity means.

[dgskydive 0]

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Or submit to political correctness and move your mosque so you don't offend a Christian; your first amendment rights be damned.

So it is ok to be politically correct when it works in their favor, but not when it works against them right?

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Intolerance is everywhere. Fighting intolerance with even more intolerance never works.

I don't think asking a "neighbor" to be sensitive to the feelings of others is wrong. A little compromise goes a long way. Imagine all the good press they could have gotten. Again nobody is saying that shouldn't build or can't build a Mosque. It hurts people to see it there. Brings up old wounds that have not really healed yet. Why rub salt into an open wound? There are TONS of empty buildings in NYC they could buy and build this at. TONS! In even better locations.

Dom

[happythoughts 0]

There seems to be certain religious factions that have
created their own image problems.

Four miles from my house (in the South), there is a Sihk Gurdwaar on the lot next to the Baptist church. It hasn't been a problem.

Of course, ask any of the people preaching acceptance
if they'd let their kids go on a weekend retreat sponsored
by the Catholic church. Honest answer? No.
A religious group has been repeatedly been found guilty of criminal action and now people refuse to trust them. Everyone accepts the common sense of that.

[billvon 3,110]

>I don't think asking a "neighbor" to be sensitive to the feelings of others is wrong.

OK. So I asked you this before. If you moved into a neighborhood, and your town didn't like the color of your skin - would you move somewhere else to be sensitive to their feelings? (We'll assume your immediate neighbors are fine with it, but the town doesn't like "your kind" because of a bad experience people there once had.)

[Amazon 7]

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When in THIS COUNTRY.... I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions..

BBQ ?

I think they already have their own traditions and
don't want yours forced on them.
That is what cultural diversity means.

DUDE... you do know that there is no ban on roasting all kinds of dead animal parts in the koran right?

Barbeque away.... lamb.. goat.... whatever... I am sure many of them are good card carrying members of PETA




People
Eating
Tasty
Animals


If someone wants to come here COMPLY with the laws of this land... or stay home.

Conversely... I expect Americans... even conservatives wishing to take us back to the 18th century, to comply with American laws as well.

[dgskydive 0]

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You REALLLLLY do not want to compare my acceptance of other human beings to those of you who purport to be good patriotic christian americans on this forum.

Acceptance of other human beings is different the accepting a religion that IS NOT TOLERANT of others. I accept people, not religion that tells me to kill you if you dont agree with me.

Dom

[turtlespeed 226]

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When in THIS COUNTRY.... I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions..

BBQ ?

I think they already have their own traditions and
don't want yours forced on them.
That is what cultural diversity means.

You can't say that!

If they want to stone theior women, let them! Freedom of religion, right?
Or do we impede their religion by saying they cannot do those things?
If we impede their religion for that, what is to stop us from telling them where and at what time they are allowed to worship?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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When in THIS COUNTRY.... I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions..

BBQ ?

I think they already have their own traditions and
don't want yours forced on them.
That is what cultural diversity means.

You can't say that!

If they want to stone theior women, let them! Freedom of religion, right?
Or do we impede their religion by saying they cannot do those things?
If we impede their religion for that, what is to stop us from telling them where and at what time they are allowed to worship?

Missing the point, one post at a time

[Amazon 7]

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You REALLLLLY do not want to compare my acceptance of other human beings to those of you who purport to be good patriotic christian americans on this forum.

Acceptance of other human beings is different the accepting a religion that IS NOT TOLERANT of others. I accept people, not religion that tells me to kill you if you dont agree with me.

As I have said before.... I am guilty of being intolerant of those who show intolerance to me.

Islam has shown itself to be intolerant of others.. but DUH... so have christians. THIS particular community center is trying to foster more understanding of people who come from a different mind set. If there is no dialog between people we are only left with conflict.

When do other people get to be human beings in YOUR WORLD


In a large area of this country.... anyone different.. is deemed unworthy of inclusion. Would you prefer more people to be accepted as people or less?

I have met you.... and I am sure you have been places in this country where people were less than accepting.

[billvon 3,110]

>If they want to stone theior women, let them! Freedom of religion, right?

Nope. That's against the law.

>Or do we impede their religion by saying they cannot do those things?

Nope.

>If we impede their religion for that, what is to stop us from telling them
>where and at what time they are allowed to worship?

The First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

[turtlespeed 226]

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>If they want to stone theior women, let them! Freedom of religion, right?

Nope. That's against the law.

>Or do we impede their religion by saying they cannot do those things?

Nope.

>If we impede their religion for that, what is to stop us from telling them
>where and at what time they are allowed to worship?

The First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

You contradict yourself.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DanG 1]

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Again nobody is saying that shouldn't build or can't build a Mosque.

That's exactly what a very large number of people are saying. Hence the problem. If all people were saying was, "Gosh, I don't like the idea," then there wouldn't be a problem. In fact, many people across the country are actively trying to prevent them from expanding their mosquee, and preventing other mosques from being built as far away as Tennessee.

- Dan G

[happythoughts 0]

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When in THIS COUNTRY.... I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions..

BBQ ?

I think they already have their own traditions and
don't want yours forced on them.
That is what cultural diversity means.

DUDE... you do know that there is no ban on roasting all kinds of dead animal parts in the koran right?

Barbeque away.... lamb.. goat.... whatever... I am sure many of them are good card carrying members of PETA

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

If someone wants to come here COMPLY with the laws of this land... or stay home.

Conversely... I expect Americans... even conservatives wishing to take us back to the 18th century, to comply with American laws as well.

I'm thinking you omitted the all-day pig roast from your list. What's a bbq without a good bbq pork sandwich?

Now that was a stealth avoidance edit... you didn't say "comply with the laws" alone.

"I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions.."

You wrote "...and OUR traditions".

Which of their traditions do you think should be immediately changed because they are offensive to you?
no burkas in schools, like the oh-so-cultured French?
prayer 5 five times a day?
i can see Easter being a difficult topic.


These are religious and cultural freedoms.
They must be somewhere in the Constitution.

[billvon 3,110]

>You contradict yourself.

Read the First Amendment; that may clear up my position for you.

[Amazon 7]

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When in THIS COUNTRY.... I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions..

BBQ ?

I think they already have their own traditions and
don't want yours forced on them.
That is what cultural diversity means.

DUDE... you do know that there is no ban on roasting all kinds of dead animal parts in the koran right?

Barbeque away.... lamb.. goat.... whatever... I am sure many of them are good card carrying members of PETA

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

If someone wants to come here COMPLY with the laws of this land... or stay home.

Conversely... I expect Americans... even conservatives wishing to take us back to the 18th century, to comply with American laws as well.

I'm thinking you omitted the all-day pig roast from your list. What's a bbq without a good bbq pork sandwich?

Now that was a stealth avoidance edit... you didn't say "comply with the laws" alone.

"I expect them to conform to our laws and OUR traditions.."

You wrote "...and OUR traditions".

Which of their traditions do you think should be immediately changed because they are offensive to you?
no burkas in schools, like the oh-so-cultured French?
prayer 5 five times a day?
i can see Easter being a difficult topic.


These are religious and cultural freedoms.
They must be somewhere in the Constitution.

If I go to the BBQ... I do not need to get as falling down drunk as you do.... even though its "tradition" now do I nor do

I have had BBQ's here at Casa Amazona with some of the people I work with. There were Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and a couple Jewish sabra's at my BBQ's .

Funni dat.... the Hindus did not eat the meat... but scarfed on the veggie burgers cooked on a separate grill.... and the Muslims and Jews were good with the grilled beef and stayed away from the pork. ( yes I had some that was kosher)

No laws.. Religious or secular were broken.. yet we all celebrated the birth of this country. When in America ... do as Americans do.... When in Pakistan or India or China or Israel.... well you get the drift... maybe... hopefully.. someday

[turtlespeed 226]

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>You contradict yourself.

Read the First Amendment; that may clear up my position for you.

I have - and you still contradict yourself.

You cannot claim religious freedom and still claim that part of your religion is illegal.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[happythoughts 0]

Burkas do not inhibit class work, but the French prohibit
them in schools.

You mentioned that they have to go along with OUR traditions?
Since you stressed the word, which ones are you referring to?
Not a mind reader. Two or three examples?

[Amazon 7]

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Burkas do not inhibit class work, but the French prohibit
them in schools.

You mentioned that they have to go along with OUR traditions?
Since you stressed the word, which ones are you referring to?
Not a mind reader. Two or three examples?

I would be good with the "faithful" not treating women in contravention to our laws and traditions.

That right there is a host of traditions that fundamentalist muslim groups foist on females here in this country inparticular... and certainly in places in the world where women are held in slavery... both reproductively, figuratively and in reality.

[happythoughts 0]

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Burkas do not inhibit class work, but the French prohibit
them in schools.

You mentioned that they have to go along with OUR traditions?
Since you stressed the word, which ones are you referring to?
Not a mind reader. Two or three examples?

I would be good with the "faithful" not treating women in contravention to our laws and traditions.

That right there is a host of traditions that fundamentalist muslim groups foist on females here in this country inparticular... and certainly in places in the world where women are held in slavery... both reproductively, figuratively and in reality.

I'm not talking about breaking laws. I have been harping
about their use of deliberate hate-speech and violence for 3 days. I even proposed two solutions to the problem.

I was referring to traditions. They can't break the law here.

There are Christians who raise their good little girls to be Barbie-Cheerleader types, and Muslims who object to the objectification of women like that. So, the N.O.W. agrees with the Imams on that one.

Hard to draw a line there on the good/bad.
I don't think you get to choose for them. Cultural Diversity.

The Constitution says they have the freedom to choose their traditions as long as they don't break any laws.

Do you have specific examples of the non-law-breaking ones you are objecting to ?

[dgskydive 0]

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If there is no dialog between people we are only left with conflict.

You are 100% correct. But what is the FIRST thing the Cordoba leaders said when the idea of moving to a different location came up.... They said "no" and didnt even want to talk about it.

Gov. Patterson (a class A crook in his own right) even offered to sit down with them and see if something could be worked out to make everyone happy. They flat out refused. There are conflicting reports if they are willing to talk or not at this point.

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When do other people get to be human beings in YOUR WORLD

They are human Jean. I never said they werent. The RELIGION IS MY ISSUE. When will I trust Islam is a better question.

I will trust Islam when it stops killing others that don't agree with it. When it stops allowing terrorists to recruit and preach hate in its Mosques here in the U.S. especially. When it reports those people to the Authorities. When it stops killing their own children for wanting to exercise their own rights as Americans. When it stops chopping off the heads of their wives for wanting a divorce. That would be a good start.

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In a large area of this country.... anyone different.. is deemed unworthy of inclusion. Would you prefer more people to be accepted as people or less?

I would love for more people to be accepted as people. Islam doesn't seem to want that. It wants you to be a certain way, and if your not you are better off dead.

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I have met you.... and I am sure you have been places in this country where people were less than accepting

Yes you have met me. Have you ever seen me not accept a PERSON for who they are?

There are plenty of places in the US and the world that dont accept people for who they are. But this isnt about accepting people for who they are. This is about a religion that tells people to kill you if you dont change into what it thinks you should be. That will never be acceptable to me. Which is why I think ALL religion is corrupt. Islam at this point in time seems to be the least tolerant of all. I cant change Islam, you cant change Islam. The only ones that can, are the Muslims themselves from the inside. I dont think that is going to be an easy job for them.

Dom