THE 'WE HATE MUSLIMS' THREAD

[dgskydive 0]

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The extreme exceptions to the rule.Thats like pointing out the many people who get mugged and murdered ion holiday in the USA and saying it happens to the majority. Hundreds of thousands if not millions go to Islamic countries every year without incident.

I could say the same about the WTC Mosque. There are 100's of Mosques in this city that nobody messes with and they get along just fine. Even if they do have worshipers that have tried to blow up synagogues in the city. Yes that has happened in the last two years as well here in NYC and nobody talks about that. We are only asking them to build this one somewhere else.

But they wont. Because they fell that their right to build trumps the feelings and pain of the same people they want tolerance and understanding from.

Dom

[Skyrad 0]

Again thats a totally different argument. Stand still while I'm conceptually running you through damn it!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 3,096]

>There are 100's of Mosques in this city that nobody messes with
>and they get along just fine.

Agreed.

>But they wont. Because they fell that their right to build trumps the feelings
>and pain of the same people they want tolerance and understanding from.

No one cared about the mosque that was already in the area, because there was no one trying to make political hay from it.

No one cared about this mosque when it was first announced in December 2009. It was just another mosque in an area with a lot of them.

No one cared about this mosque when the local community board approved it by a vote of 29 to 1 in May, 2010. The board thought there would be no issues, and indeed most Manhattanites supported it since it would provide "important community facilities" to the area. Heck, at that point it was being used as a mosque; hundreds of people prayed there.

Then Pamela Geller the founder of the group "Stop Islamization of America," started publicizing it. They got initial support through a lie; they claimed it would be "on the 9/11 site." They later switched to the claim that it would be "across the street." (In fact it's two and a half blocks away.)

Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani - basically every republican who had a microphone - immediately hopped on the bandwagon. They figured that by "supporting grieving families" they could get a few votes, and by pandering to the Muslim-bashers they could get a few more.

Then Obama came out with a statement on the First Amendment issues. "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances." This polarized the debate even further, since opponents could now attack Obama at the same time.

Ron Paul had a good take on this:

"The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque. Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.” Just think of what might have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom? In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it."

[dgskydive 0]

No it is not.

Dom

[Bolas 5]

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You are far to subtle and balanced.

You have to be the first person in history to use subtle and balanced when talking to Bolas.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[dgskydive 0]

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No one cared about the mosque that was already in the area, because there was no one trying to make political hay from it.

It wasn't that no one cared Bill. No one knew about it. I watch the local and national news every night. Not a peep about it until lately.

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Then Pamela Geller the founder of the group "Stop Islamization of America," started publicizing it. They got initial support through a lie; they claimed it would be "on the 9/11 site." They later switched to the claim that it would be "across the street." (In fact it's two and a half blocks away.)

You mentioned this last week as well and said how far away two blocks is in the City. It is not far away. It is right there. Yes, there may be a few buildings in between but it is not worlds apart like you imply. I bet you there was ash and even some blood on that building the day the towers fell. To me and a lot of folks that is the WTC as well.

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Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani - basically every republican who had a microphone - immediately hopped on the bandwagon. They figured that by "supporting grieving families" they could get a few votes, and by pandering to the Muslim-bashers they could get a few more.

Agreed. I don't listen to any of those people. May seem like it but I don't. This is and should have been a local matter from the start.

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Then Obama came out with a statement on the First Amendment issues. "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances." This polarized the debate even further, since opponents could now attack Obama at the same time.

Again, should have stayed a local matter.

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The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque. Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.” Just think of what might have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom? In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it."

Maybe Ron Paul is right.

It still doesn't change the fact the people are not happy about this. I believe the Cordoba group could have gained a lot of points if they had said. Look, we have the right to build...but...in seeing how emotional an issue this is and in order to show the world and New Yorkers we are sensitive to what happened here on 9/11 we will respect the feelings of others and find a new location that does not bring up so much obvious hurt to our fellow Americans. That would have been a nice gesture. Go expand one of the other center they have. Or, better yet take over the Muslim Revolution headquarters in Brooklyn and turn that hate factory into something good.

Dom

[wmw999 2,573]

What should they do with all of the people who are already meeting there to pray?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[normiss 883]

Then why is the other one 2 blocks away ok?

[dgskydive 0]

Take em to the new center where ever that would be.

Dom

[billvon 3,096]

>You mentioned this last week as well and said how far away two blocks is
>in the City. It is not far away. It is right there.

No, it's not. To get from the Cordoba Center to the WTC site, you have to walk a long block down Park Place to West Broadway. Then you make a left and walk another two blocks until you're there. You can't see it from there; the Manhattan bankruptcy court and the New York State Department of Health buildings are both between that site and the WTC. There are three other churches, twelve bars and four hotels closer than that place is.

This is what I mean about the deception campaign. Most people who object to this site think that it's either on the WTC site or at most across the street.

>I bet you there was ash and even some blood on that building the day the
>towers fell. To me and a lot of folks that is the WTC as well.

Even the strip club? So a house of worship is an affront to the people who lost loved ones on 9/11, but the bars and strip clubs that "have blood on them" isn't an issue?

If you want to make the area a shrine, fine - oust all the bars and hotels and churches and turn it into a shrine. If not, then you have to apply the same standards to everyone, no matter what their race or religion.

>I believe the Cordoba group could have gained a lot of points if they had
>said. Look, we have the right to build...but...in seeing how emotional an
>issue this is and in order to show the world and New Yorkers we are sensitive
>to what happened here on 9/11 we will respect the feelings of others and
>find a new location . . .

And they would have pissed off the Manhattanites who wanted it.

Let's say that you moved into a neighborhood, and the town didn't like you because of the color of your skin and/or what they thought your nationality was. (Your immediate neighbors were OK with it, but the town didn't like your kind in general.) Would you move to "gain a lot of points" with them, out of respect for their feelings?

[Skyrad 0]

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No it is not.

That is not an argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[dgskydive 0]

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Then why is the other one 2 blocks away ok?

It was there before 9/11 right? So I guess it should stay.

Do you know the significance of the the Cordoba name? That is what really gets people.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Still at work. We dont have speakers on our computers, no headphones either. Ill watch/listen tonight

Dom

[Andy9o8 2]

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What should they do with all of the people who are already meeting there to pray?

I think the answer already given was "irradiate them". Or something.

[billvon 3,096]

>Do you know the significance of the the Cordoba name?

It was named after a city in Spain which, during ancient times, was one of the first cities where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together relatively peacefully. To this day there are houses of worship which people use interchangeably for Christian and Muslim worship; indeed, in at least one case, it has proven hard to decide whether or not the building was originally a mosque or a church.

>That is what really gets people.

No problem, then. They've changed the name to Park 51 (i.e. its address) to avoid offending people.

[masterblaster72 0]

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Why is his opinion potentially representative of Muslim opinions about the mosque, but not representative of Muslim opinions about 9/11?

I'll bet they were against that, too, but Islam gets no credit for their opinion in that case.

Wendy P.

There was a substantial amount of celebrating from large crowds of Muslims following that day. There were the expected declarations of sympathy, denouncing terrorism from many of their leadership, but still a lot of applause was present. It seems that you don't want to acknowledge that.

Islamofacism could not be as prevalent as it is unless a lot of Muslims at the very least choose to let it exist.

I hate Islamofacists. I think the term is quite appropriate, and Pres Bush was absolutely right to call it that. I would have a much greater opinion of Obama if he would do the same.

I'd disagree, there was some celebrating by some Palastinians which was show almost 24/7 for days afterwards, there was a massive amount of sympaty from the majority of the Islamic world. I was in London at the time and many white British non Muslims were saying 'good, about time the Yanks got a taste of what terrorism is like' unpleasent but true. There was even a Newsnight programe in which many members of the audiance said the same which was denounced in the House of Commons and susequently buried. Many Brits had a problem with the US funding the IRA which caused us 41 years of grief. Yet I don't see or hear that being brought up all the time.

We could always say "look the VERY BLOODY English are getting what they deserved for 1000 years of ethnic cleansing of Ireland"

Yada yada yada... If it wasn't for the Brits there wouldn't be feck all architecture, no Dublin castle, Trinity, Queens, RCSI, or anyother bulding of note. Who built the first proper road in Ireland? The Brits. Who brought trade to Ireland, the Brits. Who gave Ireland its first language? The English. Who was it that threw shit and piss over the 1916 members of the uprising when they came out of the GPO? The IRISH. The Brits were no harsher with the Irish that they were with their own people. All I hear is whinging about how all the problems in Ireland are down to the Brits, yet Ireland has been fucked up and misrun by the Irish for nearly 100 years now, so get over it love.

What an arrogant wad of shit, this post above.

Long live Eire, and I will wipe my ass with the Union Jack, in light of your comments.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[captain1976 0]

Most Muslims are not Terrorists,
Most Terrorists are Muslim

How about a synagogue in Meca?

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[likearock 2]

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No one cared about the mosque that was already in the area, because there was no one trying to make political hay from it.

It wasn't that no one cared Bill. No one knew about it. I watch the local and national news every night. Not a peep about it until lately.

That's total bullshit - great revisionist history. There was plenty of discussion for quite some time - the only difference is that it used to be civil.

Here's Laura Ingram on Fox News back last December telling Imam Feisal's wife, "I like what you're trying to do."

But that was before all this ginned up fear and hatred got cooking in the blogosphere, isn't it?

[Skyrad 0]

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Why is his opinion potentially representative of Muslim opinions about the mosque, but not representative of Muslim opinions about 9/11?

I'll bet they were against that, too, but Islam gets no credit for their opinion in that case.

Wendy P.

There was a substantial amount of celebrating from large crowds of Muslims following that day. There were the expected declarations of sympathy, denouncing terrorism from many of their leadership, but still a lot of applause was present. It seems that you don't want to acknowledge that.

Islamofacism could not be as prevalent as it is unless a lot of Muslims at the very least choose to let it exist.

I hate Islamofacists. I think the term is quite appropriate, and Pres Bush was absolutely right to call it that. I would have a much greater opinion of Obama if he would do the same.

I'd disagree, there was some celebrating by some Palastinians which was show almost 24/7 for days afterwards, there was a massive amount of sympaty from the majority of the Islamic world. I was in London at the time and many white British non Muslims were saying 'good, about time the Yanks got a taste of what terrorism is like' unpleasent but true. There was even a Newsnight programe in which many members of the audiance said the same which was denounced in the House of Commons and susequently buried. Many Brits had a problem with the US funding the IRA which caused us 41 years of grief. Yet I don't see or hear that being brought up all the time.

We could always say "look the VERY BLOODY English are getting what they deserved for 1000 years of ethnic cleansing of Ireland"

Yada yada yada... If it wasn't for the Brits there wouldn't be feck all architecture, no Dublin castle, Trinity, Queens, RCSI, or anyother bulding of note. Who built the first proper road in Ireland? The Brits. Who brought trade to Ireland, the Brits. Who gave Ireland its first language? The English. Who was it that threw shit and piss over the 1916 members of the uprising when they came out of the GPO? The IRISH. The Brits were no harsher with the Irish that they were with their own people. All I hear is whinging about how all the problems in Ireland are down to the Brits, yet Ireland has been fucked up and misrun by the Irish for nearly 100 years now, so get over it love.

What an arrogant wad of shit, this post above.

Long live Eire, and I will wipe my ass with the Union Jack, in light of your comments.

The use of the word Eire just goes to show ye know nothing about Ireland. Eire is a English bastardisation of an Irish word Ériu and is only used in common speak by the English people and by plastic Paddy Americans who think their Irish, here in Ireland call the country Ireland funny enough.

Heres a song just for you..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwrTHZx-FkA

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Most Muslims are not Terrorists,
Most Terrorists are Muslim

How about a synagogue in Meca?

Again incorect, 'most terrorists are Muslim?' guess you have a very limited list of terrorist movements. As for the synagogue in Mecca I have no problem with that, in fact I think its a great idea, and as soon as your government stops funding, equiping and supporting the corupt evil regime that is the House of Saud I look forward to seeing one built.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[masterblaster72 0]

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The use of the word Eire just goes to show ye know nothing about Ireland. Eire is a English bastardisation of an Irish word Ériu and is only used in common speak by the English people and by plastic Paddy Americans who think their Irish, here in Ireland call the country Ireland funny enough.

I'm not of Irish descent so I'm not a "plastic Paddy American" who thinks he's Irish. I don't profess to know much about Ireland other than the people I know from there, who are some of the nicest people I've come to know...as a matter of fact I've never met an Irish person that didn't make a good impression on me.

So once again in light of your arrogant comments about Ireland: I shit on the Union Jack. And the flag of England.

And I didn't watch your YouTube video...coming from you there's not much motivation to do so.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Do you know the significance of the the Cordoba name?

Yep: Rich, Corinthian leather.

[Skyrad 0]

So as by your own admission you know much about Ireland which part of my original post did you have a problem with?
As for wiping you arse I couldn't care less if you use barbed wire.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[muff528 3]

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Do you know the significance of the the Cordoba name?

Yep: Rich, Corinthian leather.

Ya know.... I really didn't care for that one when it came out, but I figured someone would like it. (Like they say..."there's an ass for every seat") BUT! when Dodge used the same ugly-ass body style for the Charger they completely blew their "advances" in styling and reverted back to the dominance they previously held in crappy design. (IMO)

[turtlespeed 226]

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Do you know the significance of the the Cordoba name?

Yep: Rich, Corinthian leather.

Ya know.... I really didn't care for that one when it came out, but I figured someone would like it. (Like they say..."there's an ass for every seat") BUT! when Dodge used the same ugly-ass body style for the Charger they completely blew their "advances" in styling and reverted back to the dominance they previously held in crappy design. (IMO)

You obviously haven't seen or driven the Challenger.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun