airdvr 210 #1 August 7, 2010 QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #2 August 7, 2010 Quote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? Should be, killing 300k mostly women and children with both bombs to terrorize the men into surrender is right in line with, well the definition of terrorism. Of course the RW likes to selectively use the word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #3 August 7, 2010 Quote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #4 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? Should be, killing 300k mostly women and children with both bombs to terrorize the men into surrender is right in line with, well the definition of terrorism. Of course the RW likes to selectively use the word. Was that an apology we heard before the bomb went boom? See, we warned them that we would do exactly what we did. We explained to them in no uncertain terms what would happen. I don't think that they apologized for Pearl Harbor and their sneak attack . . . so we backed up our words. How many americans are supposed to die for you to feel appropriately apologetic to the rest of the world?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #5 August 7, 2010 >Will this be the next apology? Why? Is Joe Barton heading over there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 August 7, 2010 Quote>Will this be the next apology? Why? Is Joe Barton heading over there? No - Obama and Vilsack.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #7 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #8 August 7, 2010 You mean these notes? Quote6. Status of Targets A. Dr. Stearns described the work he had done on target selection. He has surveyed possible targets possessing the following qualification: (1) they be important targets in a large urban area of more than three miles in diameter, (2) they be capable of being damaged effectively by a blast, and (3) they are unlikely to be attacked by next August. Dr. Stearns had a list of five targets which the Air Force would be willing to reserve for our use unless unforeseen circumstances arise. These targets are: (1) Kyoto - This target is an urban industrial area with a population of 1,000,000. It is the former capital of Japan and many people and industries are now being moved there as other areas are being destroyed. From the psychological point of view there is the advantage that Kyoto is an intellectual center for Japan and the people there are more apt to appreciate the significance of such a weapon as the gadget. (Classified as an AA Target) (2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focussing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target. (Classified as an AA Target) (3) Yokohama - This target is an important urban industrial area which has so far been untouched. Industrial activities include aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries. As the damage to Tokyo has increased additional industries have moved to Yokohama. It has the disadvantage of the most important target areas being separated by a large body of water and of being in the heaviest anti-aircraft concentration in Japan. For us it has the advantage as an alternate target for use in case of bad weather of being rather far removed from the other targets considered. (Classified as an A Target) (4) Kokura Arsenal - This is one of the largest arsenals in Japan and is surrounded by urban industrial structures. The arsenal is important for light ordnance, anti-aircraft and beach head defense materials. The dimensions of the arsenal are 4100' x 2000'. The dimensions are such that if the bomb were properly placed full advantage could be taken of the higher pressures immediately underneath the bomb for destroying the more solid structures and at the same time considerable blast damage could be done to more feeble structures further away. (Classified as an A Target) (5) Niigata - This is a port of embarkation on the N.W. coast of Honshu. Its importance is increasing as other ports are damaged. Machine tool industries are located there and it is a potential center for industrial despersion. It has oil refineries and storage. (Classified as a B Target) (6) The possibility of bombing the Emperor's palace was discussed. It was agreed that we should not recommend it but that any action for this bombing should come from authorities on military policy. It was agreed that we should obtain information from which we could determine the effectiveness of our weapon against this target. http://www.dannen.com/decision/targets.html#DPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #9 August 7, 2010 Nice bit of cherry picking, carefully omitting the critical parts.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #10 August 7, 2010 QuoteNice bit of cherry picking, carefully omitting the critical parts. I didn't omit anything perfessor. The link is there for all to see.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #11 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #12 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. 1. Hiroshima was a "reserved target" by the Manhattan Project Targeting Committee from May 1945 on. The committee minutes show clearly that they wanted a large undamaged target "so that we could more definitely determine the power of the bomb". 2. "Hiroshima is the largest untouched target not on the 21st Bomber Command priority list. Consideration should be given to this city", Gen. Leslie Groves, memo on guidelines for target selection, Manhattan Project Target Committee, April 27, 1945 It is absolutely clear from the minutes that military importance was NOT the selection parameter. Using a large previously undamaged city as an experiment/demonstration was the overriding criterion. From May 1945 on the AAF was instructed not to bomb Hiroshima so that it would make a better experiment for the A-bomb.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #13 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteNice bit of cherry picking, carefully omitting the critical parts. I didn't omit anything perfessor. The link is there for all to see. Yes you did. You omitted ALL other meetings of the committee.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. What about all those targets in London when the city was attacked from the air? As far as I'm concerned, it's over and done with... it's history and it can't be un-done. No apology in the world can bring those people back. what's the use. It'd just be some words read from a 3x5 card. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #15 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. Quote What about all those targets in London when the city was attacked from the air? Chuck IS it your position that the US and its allies should use the Nazis for ethical guidance?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #16 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. Quote What about all those targets in London when the city was attacked from the air? Chuck IS it your position that the US and its allies should use the Nazis for ethical guidance? Of course not. What I'm getting at is, we were at war, you don't apologise. The Japanese have never apologised to anyone for their actions in the Pacific Islands, The Romans never apologised for their actions and the North didn't apologise to the South for their actions. Why, should we apologise, it was a war that the Japanese started? We just ended it. Besides, we're the biggest buyers of their automobiles! Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,147 #15 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. Quote What about all those targets in London when the city was attacked from the air? Chuck IS it your position that the US and its allies should use the Nazis for ethical guidance?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #16 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. Quote What about all those targets in London when the city was attacked from the air? Chuck IS it your position that the US and its allies should use the Nazis for ethical guidance? Of course not. What I'm getting at is, we were at war, you don't apologise. The Japanese have never apologised to anyone for their actions in the Pacific Islands, The Romans never apologised for their actions and the North didn't apologise to the South for their actions. Why, should we apologise, it was a war that the Japanese started? We just ended it. Besides, we're the biggest buyers of their automobiles! Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
masterrig 1 #16 August 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote QuoteHIROSHIMA, Japan — With the mournful gong of a Buddhist temple bell and the release of a flock of doves, a crowd of 55,000 on Friday solemnly marked the moment 65 years ago when the world’s first atomic attack incinerated this city under a towering mushroom cloud. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me Will this be the next apology? It was WAR! Did anyone apologise for our troops killed in war? Nope! Chuck If you read the archives of the Manhattan Project you'll see that some very legitimate ethical questions are raised by the reasons Hiroshima was chosen as target. There were any number of militarily more important targets. You'll never convince me that we have anything to apologise for. It was Japan who got us into the war in the Pacific when they attacked Pearl Harbor. Truman wasn't 'fully' informed as to the 'effects' of the A-bomb. Maybe, had he known, he may not have given the order. I'd like to see you tell my Dad and his brothers and everyone else who fought in that war that we need to apologise. Chuck I am not arguing that the bomb shouldn't have been used. I do think there were serious ETHICAL issues concerning the choice of targets. Quote What about all those targets in London when the city was attacked from the air? Chuck IS it your position that the US and its allies should use the Nazis for ethical guidance? Of course not. What I'm getting at is, we were at war, you don't apologise. The Japanese have never apologised to anyone for their actions in the Pacific Islands, The Romans never apologised for their actions and the North didn't apologise to the South for their actions. Why, should we apologise, it was a war that the Japanese started? We just ended it. Besides, we're the biggest buyers of their automobiles! Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
