Women Have No Clue

[mpohl 1]

OR do they?

'It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.'-

1979 Women's International League for Peace and Freedom

[nanook 1]

Nope. At least these ones don't. The military doesn't have enough money either and has to cut dangerous corners too. You can never have "enough" money for Education or Defense.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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Nope. At least these ones don't. The military doesn't have enough money either and has to cut dangerous corners too. You can never have "enough" money for Education or Defense.

We spend 8 times what #2 spends, match the world in military spending and you say not enough? Jebus Fucking Christ.

[billvon 3,133]

>>You can never have "enough" money for Education or Defense.

>We spend 8 times what #2 spends, match the world in military spending
>and you say not enough?

I believe it was a rhetorical statement.

[Lucky... 0]

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>>You can never have "enough" money for Education or Defense.

>We spend 8 times what #2 spends, match the world in military spending
>and you say not enough?

I believe it was a rhetorical statement.

Do you mean this one is rhetorical: You can never have "enough" money for Education or Defense.

Mine certainly isn't.

[nanook 1]

Well hell, A box of crayola is definitely a lot more cheaper than a magazine of 5.56mm rounds. Of course it is going to be a bit off. And yes. . . It is not near the amount we need. Trust me, the rest of the world would rather have more money for defense if they were given the option; and, the country with the best primary school education would not turn down money given to them to supplement their education needs.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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Well hell, A box of crayola is definitely a lot more cheaper than a magazine of 5.56mm rounds. Of course it is going to be a bit off. And yes. . . It is not near the amount we need. Trust me, the rest of the world would rather have more money for defense if they were given the option; and, the country with the best primary school education would not turn down money given to them to supplement their education needs.

I don't think the world is jealous of us pumping ourselves into debt building a way-overbuilt military.

1) Who's out to get us?

2) Our policies bring aggression upon us.

3) We need to pay down teh debt, provided things for our citizens, etc.

But you think we need to build our military up even more?

[nanook 1]

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I don't think the world is jealous of us pumping ourselves into debt building a way-overbuilt military

Me neither. National opinions and identity differ country to country. Not all of us military type believe in the "jealous of us" crap.

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Who's out to get us?

Al queda. Probably the only pure "out to get us" out there. Others, it's a lot more complicated. Don't get confused with the actions and opinions of the individual human being with the actions and opinions of Soverign nations. It may be easy to anthromorphisize countries as human beings to compare/contrast ideas and beliefs, but it doesn't work well. Humans may be in the 21st century luxury of liberalism, but countries still exist in the bronze age of thinking. Hence, countries still fight for establishing the best "water hole" access and other creature comforts. Sorry. This is how it really is.

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Our policies bring aggression upon us.

Our lack of policy will bring opportunity for others. Damed if you will; damned if you don't.

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We need to pay down teh debt, provided things for our citizens, etc.

I agree here. I wish the whole world would stop their shenanigans so we can catch up. Nope, they won't. We just will have to figure out a better way to accomplish this. And here lies the problem. Too many people are sure their policy will work. None are perfect. All are seriously flawed and dangerous. Solutions so far seem to be a simple fix to a complicated problem. . . Ripe for political votes only.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

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Well hell, A box of crayola is definitely a lot more cheaper than a magazine of 5.56mm rounds. Of course it is going to be a bit off. And yes. . . It is not near the amount we need. Trust me, the rest of the world would rather have more money for defense if they were given the option; and, the country with the best primary school education would not turn down money given to them to supplement their education needs.

Hell, we supplement both now for lots of countries.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[rushmc 23]

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Well hell, A box of crayola is definitely a lot more cheaper than a magazine of 5.56mm rounds. Of course it is going to be a bit off. And yes. . . It is not near the amount we need. Trust me, the rest of the world would rather have more money for defense if they were given the option; and, the country with the best primary school education would not turn down money given to them to supplement their education needs.

I don't think the world is jealous of us pumping ourselves into debt building a way-overbuilt military.

1) Who's out to get us?
Muslim extremist

2) Our policies bring aggression upon us.
bull shit, just your lefty agenda talking point

3) We need to pay down teh debt, provided things for our citizens, etc.Agreed. Gov needs to get smaller with less entitlements. Lower taxes and reduce spending

But you think we need to build our military up even more?

Until there are none trying to kill us? Yes. One of the primary roles of the Fed gov is to keep us safe

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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I don't think the world is jealous of us pumping ourselves into debt building a way-overbuilt military

Me neither. National opinions and identity differ country to country. Not all of us military type believe in the "jealous of us" crap.

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Who's out to get us?

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Al queda. Probably the only pure "out to get us" out there.

True, but B-2's and other multi-billion dollar machines won't get us safe. We need more homeland security and less intervention into their business. AQ is only out to get us because we deliver, deliver young men and women to be targets. Let's defend our borders and make fewer great service people vulnerable.

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Others, it's a lot more complicated. Don't get confused with the actions and opinions of the individual human being with the actions and opinions of Soverign nations.

I never have. Radical factions and countries have nothing in common, unless teh country is providing safehaven and /or money/supplies.

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It may be easy to anthromorphisize countries as human beings to compare/contrast ideas and beliefs, but it doesn't work well. Humans may be in the 21st century luxury of liberalism, but countries still exist in the bronze age of thinking. Hence, countries still fight for establishing the best "water hole" access and other creature comforts. Sorry. This is how it really is.

Don't apologize, you're not waking me up. I served 30 years ago and was in Guam, I get primordial cultures.

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Our policies bring aggression upon us.

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Our lack of policy will bring opportunity for others. Damed if you will; damned if you don't.

Yep, we just have never tried the 2nd damned; maybe we should.

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We need to pay down teh debt, provided things for our citizens, etc.

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I agree here. I wish the whole world would stop their shenanigans so we can catch up. Nope, they won't. We just will have to figure out a better way to accomplish this. And here lies the problem. Too many people are sure their policy will work. None are perfect. All are seriously flawed and dangerous. Solutions so far seem to be a simple fix to a complicated problem. . . Ripe for political votes only.

Again, we've tried the first damned (aggression), let's try the 2nd damned (peace / noninvolvement).

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[Andy9o8 3]

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Trust me, the rest of the world would rather have more money for defense if they were given the option;

I doubt it. Maybe they'd rather have more money for everything, including defense. But if they had a chance to have more money, but either on defense only, or on improvement of their standard of living only (i.e., not both), I doubt that most ordinary citizen schmoes would choose to allocate the windfall to defense.

[nanook 1]

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True, but B-2's and other multi-billion dollar machines won't get us safe. We need more homeland security and less intervention into their business. AQ is only out to get us because we deliver, deliver young men and women to be targets. Let's defend our borders and make fewer great service people vulnerable

Well, multi-billion dollar machines do keep us safe. Pointing guns across our borders do not keep us safe in this day and age. missiles and rockets and others can be launched from many miles, and within their own nations' borders, and overfly local protection. Billion dollar programs are the only things that can protect us from these threats. You can't stop the missiles flying from within our borders, but you can with in theirs. Also the same, Terrorism can't be choked off within our borders also. You have to go to the source. B2's are not defensive weapons except for deterrence, they are offensive weapons to retaliate. And they protect our precious airmen with stealth when they have to do their job.

AQ are not soveriegn nations. They are a cellular terrorist group that have been a threat for decades that did not ask soverign nations permission to protect said nations' ideals. Showing initiative without cause is not a good reason for us to go into talks with them.

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Don't apologize, you're not waking me up. I served 30 years ago and was in Guam, I get primordial cultures.

Then you understand that the most advanced of cultures are still primordial in wants and needs and are a threat to other nations that have it.

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Yep, we just have never tried the 2nd damned; maybe we should.

You need to have experience with those that themselves don't understand peace before you can correctly assume peace is an alternative.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[nanook 1]

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But if they had a chance to have more money, but either on defense only, or on improvement of their standard of living only (i.e., not both), I doubt that most ordinary citizen schmoes would choose to allocate the windfall to defense.

Okay, I'll have to agree with that point here. After all, most here would have the education instead.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 3]

Anyhow, I think women do have a clue. Frankly, I think women have more sensitivity to sending young barely-adults into harm's way than men do; and if most world leaders and their closest advisors were women instead of men, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer discretionary wars, as well as acts of terrorism, than there are and historically have been.

My parents-in-law are very religious and very socially and politically conservative. My FIL is a staunch Repub, although my MIL was basically apathetic about voting. But in 2004, after many years of not caring to vote, my MIL registered to vote so she could vote against Bush, because she found the Iraq war to be unjustifiable and was appalled at the thought of teenagers her grandchildren's age being sacrificed for a pointless, discretionary war conjured up by men. She voted for Obama in 2008 for the same reason, even though her social conservatism was tugging her the other way.

Yes, women have a clue.

[nanook 1]

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I served 30 years ago and was in Guam, I get primordial cultures.

Were you working with those Billion dollar programs out there, or were you a loadmaster of a C-141?

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[nanook 1]

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Anyhow, I think women do have a clue. Frankly, I think women have more sensitivity to sending young barely-adults into harm's way than men do; and if most world leaders and their closest advisors were women instead of men, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer discretionary wars, as well as acts of terrorism, than there are and historically have been.

I believe, in general, that women have a clue too. But I do not believe they are going to have more sensitivity to conflict and decision making. I believe they have the capability to show the same aggressiveness and assertiveness. I have had two female COs in my career and they can be just as ruthless and quick to judge and be irrational as any man. I am as afraid of any woman with power as I am a man.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 3]

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I believe they [women] have the capability to show the same aggressiveness and assertiveness.

I agree; as a litigation attorney for the past 25 years, I've had a lot of contact with women attorneys who behave assertively and aggressively. Some of that is personality, but a lot of that is situational: litigation, for good or ill, forces you to be aggressive, because if you're not, the result can be to lose the case. Having said that, my personal experience has shown me that male attorneys are generally more likely to be aggressive and unreasonable purely on a point of pride, as well as deliberately abusive to their opponents, than women attorneys are.

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I do not believe they [women] are going to have more sensitivity to conflict and decision making.

And I believe that they do. I'm also a political scientist and historian both by formal education and a lifetime of continued study. Frankly, I think the emotions and judgments that have led to most of the discretionary wars of the 20th Century, as well as Cold War era policies, as well as the US decision to wage the 2nd Iraq war in 2003, would have been far less likely to have occurred if most of the political principals had been women instead of men.

[Bolas 5]

Women leaders would still have wars, just shorter ones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OCJEh9iGwY

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[nanook 1]

I'll concede to historical knowledge you have presented. Women have shown more constraint.

But that nagging feeling and personal experience I have seen shows me that women can be just as corrupted and irrational. With more women up and coming into power, only time can make what is essentialy at the moment, a broken clock theory that represents my argument, a possible reality.

Truthfully, I hope you are right. Fact is, there will more women involved in world affairs as time goes. If you are right, we all win. If I am right. . .pphhuuuk.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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I served 30 years ago and was in Guam, I get primordial cultures.

Were you working with those Billion dollar programs out there, or were you a loadmaster of a C-141?

I worked on B-52's, I worked the alert pad a few times and was a crew chief. So yes, I worked on the live shit. I also worked on the B-1 in manufacturing and the Longbow too. Yes, I get it. And yes, we have waaaaay too huge of a military, most of the conflucts we have - we started or at least perpetuated.

[Lucky... 0]

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True, but B-2's and other multi-billion dollar machines won't get us safe. We need more homeland security and less intervention into their business. AQ is only out to get us because we deliver, deliver young men and women to be targets. Let's defend our borders and make fewer great service people vulnerable

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Well, multi-billion dollar machines do keep us safe.

Only because we provoke people via interference.

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Pointing guns across our borders do not keep us safe in this day and age. missiles and rockets and others can be launched from many miles, and within their own nations' borders, and overfly local protection. Billion dollar programs are the only things that can protect us from these threats. You can't stop the missiles flying from within our borders, but you can with in theirs.

The world is in a sort of checkmate, all teh bigs have nukes and no one is so stupid as to use them. So all that, A Few Good Men bravado is basically BS, no offense.

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Also the same, Terrorism can't be choked off within our borders also. You have to go to the source.

That's why I say spend teh money protecting our infrastructure, the world will respect us more for it.

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B2's are not defensive weapons except for deterrence, they are offensive weapons to retaliate. And they protect our precious airmen with stealth when they have to do their job.

Sounds good, but we don't neeed to spend that kind of money on needless toys.

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AQ are not soveriegn nations. They are a cellular terrorist group that have been a threat for decades that did not ask soverign nations permission to protect said nations' ideals. Showing initiative without cause is not a good reason for us to go into talks with them.

Leaving them alone as well as the ME is a good idea. OBL was fired up with the Gulf War, Saudi told them to stay out of it and eventually pulled OBL's passport and so he retaliated. Again, we ask for our own missery.

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Don't apologize, you're not waking me up. I served 30 years ago and was in Guam, I get primordial cultures.

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Then you understand that the most advanced of cultures are still primordial in wants and needs and are a threat to other nations that have it.

I wouldn't say most, I'd say the extremists on the low end and the extremists on teh high end (The US) are the biggest threats; the middle is just fine.

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Yep, we just have never tried the 2nd damned; maybe we should.

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You need to have experience with those that themselves don't understand peace before you can correctly assume peace is an alternative.

Love your, "I know more than you" BS. You're just about to break out into a Jack Nicholson, "You and your faggoty white uniforms...." rant, huh? Gee, I wish I were as worldly as you (JOKE). You're position is to antagonize teh world and see who dares to poke their head up rather than try to create peace and become a small to non-target to those radical groups/countries. Whenever I find myself in shit, that SOB in the mirror usually has the most blame, the same can be said at all levels. BTW, who0's after Sweeden?

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[Lucky... 0]

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I'll concede to historical knowledge you have presented.

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Women have shown more constraint.

Constraint means they want to agress, but control themselves. So I disagree, women are nurturers so they don't have the same aggressive motives that men do. Men typically jump to violence as a reaction, some men use constraint but have the desire to be violent.

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But that nagging feeling and personal experience I have seen shows me that women can be just as corrupted and irrational. With more women up and coming into power, only time can make what is essentialy at the moment, a broken clock theory that represents my argument, a possible reality.

Again, it's how we're wired and I don't want a woman in combat, I want want in other positions tho.

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Truthfully, I hope you are right. Fact is, there will more women involved in world affairs as time goes. If you are right, we all win. If I am right. . .pphhuuuk.

Yep, not to say that every matter needs a woman to make it happen.

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[nanook 1]

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So I disagree, women are nurturers so they don't have the same aggressive motives that men do.

Love your sexist attitude. Keep them pregnant and in front of a stove.

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Love your, "I know more than you" BS.

When was your last Ops Intel brief?

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BTW, who0's after Sweeden?

Update your SCI and join a DOD organization again. But then, you have all the answers.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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I've had a lot of contact with women attorneys who behave assertively and aggressively. Some of that is personality, but a lot of that is situational: litigation, for good or ill, forces you to be aggressive, because if you're not, the result can be to lose the case. Having said that, my personal experience has shown me that male attorneys are generally more likely to be aggressive and unreasonable purely on a point of pride, as well as deliberately abusive to their opponents, than women attorneys are.

Even if there are more such men, there's a very limited number of leadership positions and the number of aggro women can easily fill them. More Thatchers and Feinsteins. I don't see that a a policy of only female leadership should result in any actual difference as a result.