kallend 2,184 #1 August 4, 2010 www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 August 4, 2010 Amazing how the only Republicans you consider honest are the ones that agree with you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #3 August 4, 2010 Why not critique the message instead of the messenger?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #4 August 4, 2010 Quote Amazing how the only Republicans you consider honest are the ones that agree with you. Amazing how you can not see that the man is actually a Republican that actually believes in fiscal responsibility Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #5 August 4, 2010 From the article: QuoteUnder these circumstances, it’s a pity that the modern Republican Party offers the American people an irrelevant platform of recycled Keynesianism when the old approach — balanced budgets, sound money and financial discipline — is needed more than ever Indeed! In fact, this is the reason why so many people out there view themselves as libertarians. We understand "living within our means." We understand "belt-tightening" and "austerity." Honesty from this guy meant laying blame everywhere. Note that Page 2 does not even have the word "tax" or "revenue." The last two paragraphs of Page 1 described it: QuoteIn 1981, traditional Republicans supported tax cuts, matched by spending cuts, to offset the way inflation was pushing many taxpayers into higher brackets and to spur investment. The Reagan administration’s hastily prepared fiscal blueprint, however, was no match for the primordial forces — the welfare state and the warfare state — that drive the federal spending machine. Soon, the neocons were pushing the military budget skyward. And the Republicans on Capitol Hill who were supposed to cut spending exempted from the knife most of the domestic budget — entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects. But in the end it was a new cadre of ideological tax-cutters who killed the Republicans’ fiscal religion. Yep. Note, also, that the 1986 Tax Reform Act was bipartisan. Remember Daniel "Write Rosty" Rostenkowski and Bill Bradley? I think he's correct. Our situation calls for "austerity." It calls for change. And it serves as a warning for the future with the actions of the present congress and presidential administration. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #6 August 4, 2010 Quotewww.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #7 August 4, 2010 Quote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? you are the teacher Are we supposed to learn from you or not? Oh And why not answer his question?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #8 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #9 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread Just a question. It was not intended to 'end the thread'. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #10 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread Just a question. It was not intended to 'end the thread'. Chuck I know it was not intended to but, since your post said it all, why continue?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #11 August 4, 2010 QuoteFrom the article: QuoteUnder these circumstances, it’s a pity that the modern Republican Party offers the American people an irrelevant platform of recycled Keynesianism when the old approach — balanced budgets, sound money and financial discipline — is needed more than ever Indeed! In fact, this is the reason why so many people out there view themselves as libertarians. We understand "living within our means." We understand "belt-tightening" and "austerity." Honesty from this guy meant laying blame everywhere. Note that Page 2 does not even have the word "tax" or "revenue." The last two paragraphs of Page 1 described it: QuoteIn 1981, traditional Republicans supported tax cuts, matched by spending cuts, to offset the way inflation was pushing many taxpayers into higher brackets and to spur investment. The Reagan administration’s hastily prepared fiscal blueprint, however, was no match for the primordial forces — the welfare state and the warfare state — that drive the federal spending machine. Soon, the neocons were pushing the military budget skyward. And the Republicans on Capitol Hill who were supposed to cut spending exempted from the knife most of the domestic budget — entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects. But in the end it was a new cadre of ideological tax-cutters who killed the Republicans’ fiscal religion. Yep. Note, also, that the 1986 Tax Reform Act was bipartisan. Remember Daniel "Write Rosty" Rostenkowski and Bill Bradley? I think he's correct. Our situation calls for "austerity." It calls for change. And it serves as a warning for the future with the actions of the present congress and presidential administration. I totally agree..... the Republicans of the recent past have not been true fiscal conservatives and the dems view is even worse. Great article Kal... I agree with it now lets stop making it worse like we are now and get back to true fiscal responsibility!Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #12 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread Just a question. It was not intended to 'end the thread'. Chuck I know it was not intended to but, since your post said it all, why continue? You can always ignore what I posted and go-on. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #13 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread Just a question. It was not intended to 'end the thread'. Chuck I know it was not intended to but, since your post said it all, why continue? You can always ignore what I posted and go-on. Chuck Sorry if my post is confusing I think you nailed to the floor with your post. I dont know if there are ANY honest politions in any party. Hence my there is nothing more to say comment I am agreeing with you and having some fun with it at the same time."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #14 August 4, 2010 I remember back when Stockman was Reagan's Budget Director, and in a moment of (foolish!) candor, he remarked to a reporter that "Reaganomics" was essentially a form of "trickle-down economics" - which at the time was a popular term used by many Democrats as a pejorative for Republican economics, as in, "keep the rich as fat as possible, and the crumbs will trickle down to the little folk." So it was a very impolitic thing for him to say. But it was honest. And boy, did he get his ass reamed for that one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #15 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread Just a question. It was not intended to 'end the thread'. Chuck I know it was not intended to but, since your post said it all, why continue? You can always ignore what I posted and go-on. Chuck Sorry if my post is confusing I think you nailed to the floor with your post. I dont know if there are ANY honest politions in any party. Hence my there is nothing more to say comment I am agreeing with you and having some fun with it at the same time. Zooooooooooom... that one went right over my head. I got you now. carry-on! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tf15 0 #16 August 4, 2010 Quote Quote Amazing how the only Republicans you consider honest are the ones that agree with you. Amazing how you can not see that the man is actually a Republican that actually believes in fiscal responsibility Not just "a Republican", he's one of the architects of Reaganomics. Three times is enemy action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #17 August 5, 2010 Quote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? Feel gratified, with my tax thread he argues state taxes vs the issue I raised; federal taxes. He argues state tax laws enticing people to move around the states instead of what I was saying, that lower taxes lead to poor economic conditions. So your basic ad hominem is par when Mike gets cornered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #18 August 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteFrom the article: QuoteUnder these circumstances, it’s a pity that the modern Republican Party offers the American people an irrelevant platform of recycled Keynesianism when the old approach — balanced budgets, sound money and financial discipline — is needed more than ever Indeed! In fact, this is the reason why so many people out there view themselves as libertarians. We understand "living within our means." We understand "belt-tightening" and "austerity." Honesty from this guy meant laying blame everywhere. Note that Page 2 does not even have the word "tax" or "revenue." The last two paragraphs of Page 1 described it: QuoteIn 1981, traditional Republicans supported tax cuts, matched by spending cuts, to offset the way inflation was pushing many taxpayers into higher brackets and to spur investment. The Reagan administration’s hastily prepared fiscal blueprint, however, was no match for the primordial forces — the welfare state and the warfare state — that drive the federal spending machine. Soon, the neocons were pushing the military budget skyward. And the Republicans on Capitol Hill who were supposed to cut spending exempted from the knife most of the domestic budget — entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects. But in the end it was a new cadre of ideological tax-cutters who killed the Republicans’ fiscal religion. Yep. Note, also, that the 1986 Tax Reform Act was bipartisan. Remember Daniel "Write Rosty" Rostenkowski and Bill Bradley? I think he's correct. Our situation calls for "austerity." It calls for change. And it serves as a warning for the future with the actions of the present congress and presidential administration. I totally agree..... the Republicans of the recent past have not been true fiscal conservatives and the dems view is even worse. Great article Kal... I agree with it now lets stop making it worse like we are now and get back to true fiscal responsibility! The Dems view even worse? WHat does that mean? The Dems are even more irresponsible? If so, what a laugher. Clinton received a recovering economy and turned it into gold, Obama received the 2nd worst economy and is still dealing with it. FDR received the worst economy ever in the US and eventually repaired it. This is a recurring cycle of the R's inheriting a good economy and turning it to fuck, the D's fixing it; repeat cycle. The only fiscally responsible R's we've had over the last 50 years are Eisenhower and GHWB. Let's see what they did: - Got us out of wars, in GHWB's war he abbreviated it very shortly. - Cut spending - Raise taxes or keep them high So you and your have to do that to be true fiscal conservatives, not neo-cons and the electorate says they want true fiscal responsibility yet they really don't, as they want low taxes which lead to high deficits. This fairly tale that claims we can cut the dificit by cutting spending is tired and unproven. Look at teh chart I posted in my tax thread, "History repeats itself;" every time the taxes get cut, bad things happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #19 August 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1 David Stockman was a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan 'An honest Republican'? Isn't that an oxymoron... same goes for Dems! Chuck Yet again a post from you that should end the thread Just a question. It was not intended to 'end the thread'. Chuck I know it was not intended to but, since your post said it all, why continue? I quite understand why you want this thread to end... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #20 August 5, 2010 Quote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? Lemme know when YOU start and I'll return the courtesy.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 August 5, 2010 QuoteQuote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? Feel gratified, with my tax thread he argues state taxes vs the issue I raised; federal taxes. Yes, I got tired of chasing the moving goalposts so I showed how the high taxes caused loss of revenues. Your inability to see that the same actions can just as easily hold true for federal taxes is your problem. QuoteHe argues state tax laws enticing people to move around the states instead of what I was saying, that lower taxes lead to poor economic conditions. Too bad the articles also disproved your 'low taxes baaaaaad' theory. Again, your inability to comprehend that people will take actions to shelter themselve against high taxes, whether state or federal, is your problem. QuoteSo your basic ad hominem is par when Mike gets cornered. Wrong yet again - but coming from the king of the ad-hom attacks, it's pretty fucking hilarious.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #22 August 5, 2010 So forget who posted the OP, or even what you and the OP may say to or think about each other personally. Do you or do you not have a critique on the substance of what Stockman wrote in his NY Times op-ed piece? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #23 August 5, 2010 QuoteQuote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? Lemme know when YOU start and I'll return the courtesy. You're unable to answer or rebut, I see.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 August 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? Lemme know when YOU start and I'll return the courtesy. You're unable to answer or rebut, I see. That's equally applicable to your dismissal of posts due to source.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #25 August 5, 2010 Quote Why not critique the message instead of the messenger? Not following your own advice? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3814603;search_string=messenger;#3814603 Quote(post #10) Sometimes the messenger reveals himself to be clueless. That's why it's important to establish that the messenger has credibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
