"Hate Speech"

[Kennedy 0]

Found on assorted news sites.

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University of Illinois Instructor Fired Over Catholic Beliefs
| Associated Press

URBANA, Ill. -- The University of Illinois has fired an adjunct professor who taught courses on Catholicism after a student accused the instructor of engaging in hate speech by saying he agrees with the church's teaching that homosexual sex is immoral.

Whether you agree with him or not, does disapproving of another person's choices constitute "hate speech" that calls for censure and/or termination?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

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Whether you agree with him or not, does disapproving of another person's choices constitute "hate speech" that calls for censure and/or termination?

Depends on what he actually said. Got any quotes?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[christelsabine 1]

Who is *Jim* ?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[quade 4]

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Who is *Jim* ?

Jim is the next door neighbor of him.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

I never thought quade would make an "I will us google before asking stupid questions" statment.

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The professor, Ken Howell of Champaign, said his firing violates his academic freedom. He also lost his job at an on-campus Catholic center.
Howell, who taught Introduction to Catholicism and Modern Catholic Thought, says he was fired at the end of the spring semester after sending an e-mail explaining some Catholic beliefs to his students preparing for an exam.
"Natural Moral Law says that Morality must be a response to REALITY," he wrote in the e-mail. "In other words, sexual acts are only appropriate for people who are complementary, not the same."
An unidentified student sent an e-mail to religion department head Robert McKim on May 13, calling Howell's e-mail "hate speech." The student claimed to be a friend of the offended student. The writer said in the e-mail that his friend wanted to remain anonymous.

"Teaching a student about the tenets of a religion is one thing," the student wrote. "Declaring that homosexual acts violate the natural laws of man is another."
Howell said he was teaching his students about the Catholic understanding of natural moral law.
"My responsibility on teaching a class on Catholicism is to teach what the Catholic Church teaches," Howell said in an interview with The News-Gazette in Champaign. "I have always made it very, very clear to my students they are never required to believe what I'm teaching and they'll never be judged on that."
Howell also said he makes clear to his students that he's Catholic and that he believes the church views that he teaches.
McKim referred questions to university spokeswoman Robin Kaler, who said she couldn't comment on Howell or his firing because it's a personnel issue.
According to the university's Academic Staff Handbook, faculty "are entitled to freedom in the classroom in developing and discussing according to their areas of competence the subjects that they are assigned."
In an e-mail to other school staff, Ann Mester, an associate dean at the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, said Howell's e-mail justified his firing.
"The e-mails sent by Dr. Howell violate university standards of inclusivity, which would then entitle us to have him discontinue his teaching arrangement with us," Mester wrote.
Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors, said professors should be able to tell students their own views and even argue in favor of them, provided students can disagree without being penalized.
"It's part of intellectual life to advocate for points of view," said Nelson, an emeritus English professor at the University of Illinois. "Hopefully when they go out in the world, they can emulate that. They can argue a case, and do it in a well-informed and articulate way, and can make a more productive contribution to our democracy that way."
Howell has taught at the university for nine years, and was recognized by his department in 2008 and 2009 for being rated an excellent teacher by students.
He said he and McKim disagree on religious views and believes he lost his job over "just a very, very deep disagreement about the nature of what should be taught and what should not be taught."
After he lost his teaching job, Howell also was fired as director of the St. John's Catholic Newman Center's Institute of Catholic Thought. The on-campus center directed questions to the Diocese of Peoria, which had paid for his position.
Patricia Gibson, an attorney and chancellor of the diocese, said Howell was let go because he could no longer teach at the university.
"We are very concerned and very distressed by what we understand is the situation from Dr. Howell," she said. The diocese hopes to discuss the situation with someone at the university, she said.

(sorry for crappy formating- blame my phone)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Hey man, you're the one that made the original post!

Even JR usually posts a link to relevant material to support his claims.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

This from the poster who bitches about people focusing on typos and spelling issues? I suppose hypocrasy from you shouldn't surprise me. The option should say "him" and not "Jim." phone keyboards are not the easiest.
(and FYI: I saw it before you mentioned it, but the edit feature doesn't let you change poll options for obvious reasons)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

[URL]http://news.google.com/news/i?oe=UTF-8&client=safari&q=Illinois+professor+fired+homosexual&ie=UTF-8&hl=en[/URL]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Have you considered changing your sig? Maybe something along the lines of;

"Posted via not-so-smart-phone and typed with fat fingers?"

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Darius11 12]

I disagree with Jim, but it is NOT hate speech.


If he was not advocating violence then i don't see it as hate speech. I think even hate speech should be allowed. Its still speech its the listener job not to break the law and follow trough.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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I disagree with Jim, but it is NOT hate speech.


If he was not advocating violence then i don't see it as hate speech. I think even hate speech should be allowed. Its still speech its the listener job not to break the law and follow trough.

Yeah but its easy for you Darius, you came from a country that does not have any homosexuals.

[Kennedy 0]

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Have you considered changing your sig? Maybe something along the lines of;

"Posted via not-so-smart-phone and typed with fat fingers?"

My wife says I have very nice fingers.

Anyway, in an update, atheists and others who disagree with him support him and respect him. He never said they should be hated or fired for their views. It's funny, I thought university was supposed to be about free exchange of ideas and learning to think.

Anyone going to say this isn't a case of PCism run amok?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/16/students-alumni-rally-u-illinois-professor-fired-expressing-catholic-beliefs/?test=latestnews

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

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It's funny, I thought university was supposed to be about free exchange of ideas and learning to think.

And for the most part they are. However, all it takes is one silly person to blow things out of proportion to make the entire system seem wacky. It's not. It's an isolated incident blown out of proportion.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[hwt 0]

Students protest religion instructor's removal...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-uofill-instructor,0,7203504.story

[futuredivot 0]

Considering that it was an intro to Catholicism class-not hate speech from what I gathered. Not appropriate for a class in most other subjects. Still would depend on the entire quote and surrounding circumstances as to if I would consider it hate speech.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[skyrider 0]

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Have you considered changing your sig? Maybe something along the lines of;

"Posted via not-so-smart-phone and typed with fat fingers?"

Ok, that is your first warning!

[wmw999 2,577]

Unless there was a subtext of "you have to agree with this or you'll do poorly in this class" I'd have to agree that it's entirely appropriate within the context of a Catholicism class. Sounds like most people think so, and like the administration that canned him are taking some heat.

That's good -- while I honestly think that PC speech isn't bad, particularly if you hold a position of power, I don't think this counts as worth firing someone over. It's his job to be a Catholic in this class, right?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[champu 1]

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Students protest religion instructor's removal...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-uofill-instructor,0,7203504.story

From that article (emphasis mine)...

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The student wrote in an e-mail to a university administrator that Howell told students about Catholic church doctrine that considers homosexual sex immoral after having told students that he's a practicing Catholic and agrees with church teachings.

And from the article Kennedy posted...

Quote

"My responsibility on teaching a class on Catholicism is to teach what the Catholic Church teaches," Howell said in an interview with The News-Gazette in Champaign. "I have always made it very, very clear to my students they are never required to believe what I'm teaching and they'll never be judged on that."

As others have stated it's hard to say what actually happened (because journalists are those who can neither do nor teach.) But I haven't read anything about this case that would tell me this guy should have been fired. A more general question that applies here: isn't choosing one's battles always a good decision? Or do some of you feel that certain things should be faught down to the last bitter technicality?

[Darius11 12]

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Quote

I disagree with Jim, but it is NOT hate speech.


If he was not advocating violence then i don't see it as hate speech. I think even hate speech should be allowed. Its still speech its the listener job not to break the law and follow trough.

Yeah but its easy for you Darius, you came from a country that does not have any homosexuals.

oH THATS RIGHT
FYI there is that quote pasted to a plastic frog on my desk (from my GF). I think it was the #2 stupedest quote of 2009 on some list.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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"My responsibility on teaching a class on Catholicism is to teach what the Catholic Church teaches," Howell said in an interview with The News-Gazette in Champaign. "I have always made it very, very clear to my students they are never required to believe what I'm teaching and they'll never be judged on that."

Right, his job is not talking about his own opinions. There really is nothing to be gained by adding by proclaiming it either.

However, it isn't hate speech and I don't agree with firing him for it either.

[Kennedy 0]

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then they are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." WF Buckley Jr

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[SkyDekker 1,465]

wtf, over

[billvon 3,100]

"If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them." - Adlai Stevenson

[wmw999 2,577]

Kennedy, we're pretty much all in agreement that this particular situation is bogus, liberal and conservative alike.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 226]

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Kennedy, we're pretty much all in agreement that this particular situation is bogus, liberal and conservative alike.

Wendy P.

His comment has merit on both sides of the political compass - no matter where your needle is - some have the intelligence to understand that there are other views, even fewer realize that they are valid, even fewer yet are those that can tolerate the that thought.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun