Should boy born 3 years after dad’s death get Social Security?

[wayneflorida 0]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/49775477-78/michael-gayle-ian-utah.html.csp

[headoverheels 334]

No. Social security is to keep dependents from being thrown into poverty through the death of those they depend upon. This son was created long after the death occurred, knowing full well that the father was dead. If she wants to pay for it, I think it is a wonderful thing.

[kelpdiver 2]

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No. Social security is to keep dependents from being thrown into poverty through the death of those they depend upon. This son was created long after the death occurred, knowing full well that the father was dead. If she wants to pay for it, I think it is a wonderful thing.

Yes, it is a form of insurance that we pay for. That doesn't mean every child conceived with his donated sperm are to be covered by this benefit.

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

From the source:

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The justices are poised to answer two questions: Is a signed sperm donor agreement evidence of a man’s desire to become a father, even after his death? And is that child then his legal heir?

1)Depends on the case. Joe off the street who donates sperm has no desire to become a father, he just donates his sperm for others. But this couple was married, his sperm was intended for one woman, his wife, his desire to become a father is obvious. In his case why else would he preserve sperm? To NOT become a father

2)Yes, the child is his legal heir and is entitled to all benefits that any other child would receive from their legal heirs.

I disagree with SS, but the answer to both questions in the source is YES.

[dgskydive 0]

No way.

Dom

[shropshire 0]

Yes .. The child has done nothing wrong.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DaVinci 0]

Wow, a very tough position.

Is Ian Micheal's Son? IMO, Yes.
Is Ian entitled to the inheritance? IMO, Yes.
Is Ian entitled to SS survivor benefits? IMO, No.

SS is as another poster put it, 'Insurance in case something happens'. In this case Gayle knew Micheal was dead and had the child anyway.

While I think she has that right, that does not IMO fit into what survivor benefits are for or about.

[christelsabine 1]

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No way.

He is no natural born US citizen? If his father's still alive or not, he's living with his American mother, so what???

Weird.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[DaVinci 0]

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He is no natural born US citizen? If his father's still alive or not, he's living with his American mother, so what???

Weird.

No one is saying the child is not a citizen or entitled to other benefits that come with being a citizen. They are saying that the reason for SS is to handle what happens when a bread winner dies and he has dependents.

That was not the case here. The income was gone LONG before the child was conceived.

[christelsabine 1]

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He is no natural born US citizen? If his father's still alive or not, he's living with his American mother, so what???

Weird.

No one is saying the child is not a citizen or entitled to other benefits that come with being a citizen. They are saying that the reason for SS is to handle what happens when a bread winner dies and he has dependents.

That was not the case here. The income was gone LONG before the child was conceived.

I do not know what's your countrys state assistance for children. Our kids, if with or w/o a dad/mom anyhow are entitled to receive state aid. The child allowance is been paid from 1st month the kid is born (to parents, mom/or dad), which actually is € 184 for 1st kid.

Additionally, single mother (or dad/or parents) also receive (parents-)money for about 12 or 14 months, which is at a minimum of € 300 monthly.

The above has nothing to do with the circumstances under which (or why) a kid is born.

Our social net is close-knit. I do appreciate that.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[mnealtx 0]

Gonna be an UGLY case.

Per the SSA regs, a child can claim benefits if:

§404.350 Who is entitled to child's benefits?

(a) General. You are entitled to child's benefits on the earnings record of an insured person who is entitled to old-age or disability benefits or who has died if—

(1) You are the insured person's child, based upon a relationship described in §§404.355 through 404.359;

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404.355 speaks of the 'natural child' - the other sections discuss stepchildren, grandchildren and adopted children.

The operative part in 404.355 seem to be:
(3) You are the insured's natural child and your mother or father has not married the insured, but the insured has either acknowledged in writing that you are his or her child, been decreed by a court to be your father or mother, or been ordered by a court to contribute to your support because you are his or her child. If the insured is deceased, the acknowledgment, court decree, or court order must have been made or issued before his or her death. To determine whether the conditions of entitlement are met throughout the first month as stated in §404.352(a), the written acknowledgment, court decree, or court order will be considered to have occurred on the first day of the month in which it actually occurred.

My belief is that the argument is going to come down to this section (especially the bolded (emphasis mine)), and the definition of 'natural child' since the father was deceased at the time of conception.

(2) You are dependent on the insured, as defined in §§404.360 through 404.365;

Could be argued either way - if the mother is dependent on the survivor benefit, then would the child not also be dependent? The other side of the argument is, how can the child be dependent on someone who is deceased?

(3) You apply;

(4) You are unmarried; and

(5) You are under age 18; you are 18 years old or older and have a disability that began before you became 22 years old; or you are 18 years or older and qualify for benefits as a full-time student as described in §404.367.

It's a given that the mother is applying in the child's behalf, the child is unmarried and is under 18.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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I do not know what's your countrys state assistance for children. Our kids, if with or w/o a dad/mom anyhow are entitled to receive state aid. The child allowance is been paid from 1st month the kid is born (to parents, mom/or dad), which actually is € 184 for 1st kid.

This portion of Social Security has nothing to do with the state assistance programs. Survivor payments are part of the insurance aspect, as opposed to the retirement side. If you die early, your spouse and dependents receive some of those benefits. Consider it a lightweight life insurance policy.

As we all know fully, SS has unfunded mandates, as the money collected is not retained - all excess has been used to subsidize our federal deficit. There's no question that this child is not a survivor of his father's death. Benefits paid to him will translate to benefits not paid to someone else. And unlike the tax credits, the amount of money here is actually enough to encourage other widows to do the same. It's not good social policy.

Others may disagree, and Congress could pass legislation to define a more 'compassionate' policy. But short of such action, I believe the stance of the SS department that conceptions after death (esp years after) should not be eligible would stand.

[DaVinci 0]

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I do not know what's your countrys state assistance for children.

There are programs the child would be entitled to.... Social Security survivor benefits is not one of them, IMO.

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Our social net is close-knit. I do appreciate that.

Germany's budget deficit will soar well over four percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010 according to reports.

Being nice is one thing..... Running yourself bankrupt is another. By letting people who are not alive father kids and expect SS to cover it, it will just add expenses onto an already hurt system.

[christelsabine 1]

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....
Germany's budget deficit will soar well over four percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010 according to reports.
....

Little correction on GDP (BIP in German): -4.9 % in 2009, for 2010 to be expected about +2 %.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Andy9o8 3]

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Should boy born 3 years after dad’s death get Social Security?

I don't know the Social Security law on this issue, and won't spend any time to look it up.
But as a matter of public policy, I think the cutoff should be where it includes children who were fetuses in utero at the time of their deceased father's death, but not children who were conceived after their biological father's death.

So in this case: No.

[DaVinci 0]

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Little correction on GDP (BIP in German): -4.9 % in 2009, for 2010 to be expected about +2 %.

I got my numbers from here:

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1231921022.85/

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"We will be well above four percent in 2010," Steinbrueck said in an interview with the Financial Times Deutschland.

[christelsabine 1]

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Little correction on GDP (BIP in German): -4.9 % in 2009, for 2010 to be expected about +2 %.

I got my numbers from here:

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1231921022.85/

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"We will be well above four percent in 2010," Steinbrueck said in an interview with the Financial Times Deutschland.

Peer Steinbrueck is wrong (and an idiot, sorry) IMF f.e. shows different figures. I prefer to trust in information/figures I receive in my job on a daily basis.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Shotgun 1]

That's a tough one, but I think the answer is probably no. It seems that she made a conscious choice to have a baby with no father, which is quite a bit different than being pregnant or already having a baby when the father dies. With no precedent(?), I don't see why she would have had any reason to think that she would have been able to collect SS for the baby (before she made the decision to get pregnant).

[wmw999 2,603]

It's not even tough to me. No, he doesn't.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)