Truth for Today 7/10/10

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

y though, did you actually read any of the articles? Do you realise you linked to a bunch of pagans, shamans, witchdoctors and alternative healers?

Yep! Please read my response to GeorgiaDon below.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

From one of the links near the top of your google search:
"If the Source's energy, or the kundalini that was resting at the base of my spine is aroused prematurely, it explodes up the spinal cord, confusing the other six centers and causing disastrous problems. If, however, the seven centers are balanced properly and the Source's energy at the coccyx is aroused at the right time, then instead of exploding up the spine, it will spiral among the other centers and open each in sequence, greatly benefiting the practitioner. This is probably why my teachers had been careful in giving me safe objects for concentration, such as the feeling of my breath in the nose instead of one of the seven connections or centers of energy."

Somehow, this reminds me of joke about the guy who had his balls removed because of headaches.

Don

Right on! Your punchline is exactly the point. Thank you for providing an excellent example for explanation to stevebabin.

Back in 1973 I was a counselor employed at Thee Door, a federally funded drug rehab program in Orlando, FL. For a few months I studied Kundalini Yoga under the tutelage of a Sikh named Mahan Kalpa Singh from the 3HO; Healthy, Happy, Holy Organization Ashram. He was a disciple of Yogi Bajan.

Mahan Kalpa was a staff counselor with the program as well. We offered Kundalini as an alternative to drug use. At the time the New Age was taking a foothold and many Eastern philosophies were being explored.

The director of the Orange County Health Department was approaching the 7th Initiation, a high level, in Eckankar and I was a Chela, a student. He was impressed with my experimentation and expertise on the use of psychedelics, particularly the psilocybin mushroom for spiritual revelation.

In 1981 my spiritual quest led me to the foot of the cross of Jesus Christ and I experienced true forgiveness of my sins and my life was forever changed. I became a new man in Christ.

Your quote makes perfect sense to me in terms of what the writer is expressing. Kundalini can deliver one hell of a rush but it takes great discipline to handle it. The direction of concentrating on breathing through the nostrils is known as “the breath of fire.”

So here is the hypothetical situation for stevebabin.

A student of Kudalini comes to me as a client suffering from suicidal depression because he is not able to attain his desired level of awareness. At that initial interaction I become a counselor in the realm of spiritual/mental illness. My first objective is to have him define his goals for our client/counselor relationship. When that objective is clear we begin our journey together.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[stevebabin 0]

Quote

He was impressed with my experimentation and expertise on the use of psychedelics, particularly the psilocybin mushroom for spiritual revelation.

This insight into your past is enlightening....

Quote

A student of Kudalini comes to me as a client suffering from suicidal depression because he is not able to attain his desired level of awareness. At that initial interaction I become a counselor in the realm of spiritual/mental illness. My first objective is to have him define his goals for our client/counselor relationship. When that objective is clear we begin our journey together.

I would think that it would be in the best interest of the patient to have a counselor wasn't delusional. (Someone who doesn't think he's interacting with "spirits" or has imaginary friends...)
In this hypothetical situation, I would hope that you would refer him to a reality-based mental health professional to get the help he needs.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Was Joseph and Mary already living in Bethlehem ? both gospels differ on this.

Ok they differ...so what? Mathew just doesn't offer an explanation of why they went to Bethlehem... Luke does. By your logic one could ask the question, "was Jesus ever actually born because Mark didn't gave an account of His birth?"

Quote

Why would it matter that Joseph's linage could be traced back to David when Joseph was not the father?

This one actually requires some study and knowledge of Jewish customs...something that you apparently didn't even bother with...not that I expected you to do so, but to say that all this stuff is irreconcilable without exhausting any other possibilities is rather laughable...well, not laughable...it's not funny at all, just foolish and sad.

The fact is that Joseph was the legal father of Jesus and that was important because It gave him the legal right to rule. He got his genetic right to rule through Mary who was also of the dividic line, which is also important because of a "twist" that is presented with Jechoniah in Joseph's blood line...I'll leave it for you to discover in your future studies if you so desire.

I would give you a more thorough explanation, but I find it hard to waste the time presenting the information to someone that probably won't even give two shiz nits either way.

Quote

Is it three wise men or three shepards?

Why couldn't it have been two completly seperate groups of men as the text seems to suggest?

btw, I don't remember anything about three shepards specificaly...maybe there were, maybe not, but it's not like the was a bouncer standing there preventing anyone but three wise men to enter.

Quote

My personal favorite is did they flee to Egypt or stay and have all of the Jewish customs for the first born male performed?

why would they have to stay in Bethlehem for the Pidyon Haben? It was to be performed in Jerusalem after the first 30 days of life. There is nothing to suggest that it had to be on the 31st day. Take a look at Number 3:15.

Quote

If you buy the one that they fled to Egypt and only came back after Herod died and was replaced by his son. Don't you think the son would remember something about his Dad killing tens of thousand of first born male babies?

Sure, which is why Joseph was afraid and withdrew to the district of Gallilee, in a city called Nazareth.

So either you didn't read the text and are just getting ideas from your favorite Athiest website, or you read the text and are having that "reading comprehension problem" that seems to afflict almost everyone here at dropzone.com from time to time.

In the futue I would suggest that you build a real case with the proper historical, cultural and circumstantial context, along with references and maybe I will respond in kind.

If not, the next time you come to us with this faithless, idle, ignorant crap without a sincere and honest heart, I'm just gonna say (what's the saying here at dz.com? Um...Oh.) Do your own research!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

I would think that it would be in the best interest of the patient to have a counselor wasn't delusional. (Someone who doesn't think he's interacting with "spirits" or has imaginary friends...)
In this hypothetical situation, I would hope that you would refer him to a reality-based mental health professional to get the help he needs.

You say that because you do not understand the counseling profession. We go where the client is not where we think he ought to be.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

I would hope that you would refer him to a reality-based mental health professional to get the help he needs.

Anybody who is talking to invisible people needs to be
first in the door.

[stevebabin 0]

Quote

You say that because you do not understand the counseling profession

Yeah....that must be it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that I think having a delusional counselor is a bad idea.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

You say that because you do not understand the counseling profession

Yeah....that must be it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that I think having a delusional counselor is a bad idea.

It ignores the basic issue. Religion is not the solution, it is the problem. Guilt, misinformation, and a lifestyle of dependence on mythical creatures.

"If you follow these rituals, the mythical omnipotent being will solve all your problems... or not."

Yeah, that's how you plan your life. That is crazy.

When religion didn't work, someone wrote a book, "Why do bad things happen to good people?"

Start out with a reality-based life instead of a mystical-based one. You can't expect for a crazy solution to produce sanity.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Religion is not the solution, it is the problem.

There is no one-size-fits-all "problem," and there is no one-size-fits-all "solution." I know plenty of religious people who live happy, healthy lives, and I know some who have problems with depression, addiction, etc. Same with the atheists/agnostics that I know.

Some people find help through religion; others don't. Some people find help through medicine; others don't. Etc., etc., etc.

I have been using a "chakra clearing" technique for the last few years to deal with anxiety and chronic pain, and it works better than anything else I've tried in the 20+ years that I've had these problems. Most people probably think the idea of "chakras" is BS, and I don't necessarily believe in them either, but that really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that it works for me.

So I tend to think that if religion and/or belief in a god is helping someone, it's really none of my business.

(Now these "Yes on Prop 8" people are making their religion my business, but that's a whole other story....)

[happythoughts 0]

Does chakra clearing involve self-guided meditation or talking to invisible people ?

Does your practice identify other spiritual groups as evil
and teach that the evil people must be destroyed ?
(Even to the point of sub-sects killing each other.)

Does your practice have a heaven/hell system of rewards
and punishments that are meted out in a seemingly random
fashion by a petulant invisible being ?
(Thus, actions have no clear relationship to consequences.)

I may not know exactly how meditation works totally,
but it doesn't seem to destroy the lives of people.
So, I am ok with it.

Religions use the belief in omnipotent invisible beings to manipulate people. They are carnival workers with tax exempt status.
They all believe that the invisible people of other religions are myths and don't exist.
I believe that none do.

[stevebabin 0]

Quote

I have been using a "chakra clearing" technique for the last few years to deal with anxiety and chronic pain, and it works better than anything else I've tried in the 20+ years that I've had these problems. Most people probably think the idea of "chakras" is BS, and I don't necessarily believe in them either, but that really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that it works for me.

Placebo Effect?
Whatever is at play, I'm glad it's working for you.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Whatever is at play, I'm glad it's working for you.

as long as it's not Christianity, right?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

invisible invisible invisible invisible invisible invisible

Science today is working on an all encomassing truth based around invisible, omipresent matter that we can't detect (yet) that is apparently passing through our eyeballs as we speak.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

Quote

Quote

Whatever is at play, I'm glad it's working for you.

as long as it's not Christianity, right?

The mind is a powerful thing....if christianity triggers a placebo effect and he gets relief, great....just don't try to pass off the religion as anything other than the myth it is.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

Quote

just don't try to pass off the religion as anything other than the myth it is.

It's not a myth...the truth is in the application.

...which btw, is very hard to do.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

Quote

Quote

just don't try to pass off the religion as anything other than the myth it is.

It's not a myth...the truth is in the application.

...which btw, is very hard to do.

Gotta call BS on that point...the placebo effect is very easy to demonstrate.

Your christianity is a myth just like every religion that came before it, or exists concurrently with it.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Your christianity is a myth just like every religion that came before it, or exists concurrently with it.

No it's not...you're deluded by the world.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,594]

Quote

Quote

Your christianity is a myth just like every religion that came before it, or exists concurrently with it.

No it's not...you're deluded by the world.

One of the most marvellous achievements of religion, the propogation of the idea that knowledge is an actual Bad Thing. Not simply the idea that knowledge of the physical world isn't everything, but the idea that rational enquiry of it can actually blind you to this magical other realm, and is therefore an actively Bad Thing. Doesn't it bother you that you're sitting there saying, in a nutshell, that it's easier to believe in your God if you're ignorant of reality? If I was you, that sort of thinking would be ringing some serious alarm bells in my head.

And just because I've been looking for an excuse to use it, and it just about fits, here's Tim Minchin explaining it better than I ever could in the form of a 9 minute Beat Poem.



(Yeah I know, sounds horrible, right? Give it a chance though, it's quite excellent)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,111]

>It's not a myth...the truth is in the application.

That's actually an argument for the placebo effect. It does actually work so meets your definition for 'truth.' (However, I don't think that "it works when we do X" necessarily implies that X is the truth.)

[stevebabin 0]

Quote

Quote

Your christianity is a myth just like every religion that came before it, or exists concurrently with it.

No it's not...you're deluded by the world.

Deluded by what's real and can be tested. Deluded by reality. Deluded by verifiable truth.

Enjoy your koolaid.

Jakee, that link was very entertaining...thanks!

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Does chakra clearing involve self-guided meditation or talking to invisible people ?

I think it's somewhat similar to self-guided meditation. No invisible people. (If you're referring to "God" here, I know there are a lot of people who interpret "God" to mean something other than an "invisible person" - not a person-like thing at all.)

As for the other questions you asked, and the rest of your post, you seem to be talking about specific religions and not the simple belief in a god. The simple belief in a god does not harm other people, but some religions do exploit the belief in a god in order to manipulate people.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Quote

I have been using a "chakra clearing" technique for the last few years to deal with anxiety and chronic pain, and it works better than anything else I've tried in the 20+ years that I've had these problems. Most people probably think the idea of "chakras" is BS, and I don't necessarily believe in them either, but that really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that it works for me.

Placebo Effect?
Whatever is at play, I'm glad it's working for you.

Thanks. And no, I wouldn't call it a placebo effect. I think for it to be a placebo effect, I would have to actually believe that I have chakras and that I am clearing them, but I don't. I think I have some idea of how it works, but I'm not sure how to explain it. Our minds can be pretty powerful in causing some physical effects on the body. (The placebo effect being a good example of this.)

[maadmax 0]

--One of the most marvellous achievements of religion, the propogation of the idea that knowledge is an actual Bad Thing. Not simply the idea that knowledge of the physical world isn't everything, but the idea that rational enquiry of it can actually blind you to this magical other realm, and is therefore an actively Bad Thing. Doesn't it bother you that you're sitting there saying, in a nutshell, that it's easier to believe in your God if you're ignorant of reality? If I was you, that sort of thinking would be ringing some serious alarm bells in my head.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

invisible invisible invisible invisible invisible invisible

Science today is working on an all encomassing truth based around invisible, omipresent matter that we can't detect (yet) that is apparently passing through our eyeballs as we speak.

Nobody believes that they talk to electricity.
Nobody believes that if they pray to electricity, it will shock
their enemies.

The concept of an conscious entity that is psychically (praying) communicated with, and the concept of radio
waves, are several orders of magnitude different.
Don't try to use the existence of radar to prove that
a being exists throughout time.

Jesus may have lived, but he is still really dead.
Thor, Odin, Poseidon... all myths.

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

It appears the understanding of some regarding spiritual Truth is about as primitive as others understanding of science. When ignorance and self-righteousness are combined, any conclusion becomes possible. Science is a wonderful discipline in which to reveal God's handiwork. Understanding spiritual Truth allows us to grasp the reason we are here.
...

Who am I? Where did I come from? Where am I going?

It would seem that most folks, especially in SC, do not find these to be compelling questions. For you, Coreece and I they are paramount.

No one understands the power of the saving grace of God through Jesus Christ until they ask Him into their hearts. The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and forces Himself upon no one.

No one asks Jesus to come into their hearts until they feel an overwhelming and compelling need. In other words, they must realize they are lost.

Repentance means to change your mind and reverse direction. That is very difficult to do unless your soul is aching.

Knowledge is not a bad thing in itself. Knowledge in a reprobate mind leads to eternal death.

Eternal death and loss of all hope requires no action at all. Eternal life with Christ requires a decision to accept Him. Some do, some don't. Some haven't but will. Some haven't and won't. Our ministry is to encourage those who will and those who have.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.