Officer actually convicted, but of the lesser crime

[mnealtx 0]

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Actually I was replying to divot's strawman. I stand by that post.

Strawman? The stores weren't, in fact, looted? Got a link to that?

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I was also replying to your post: the riots were first and foremost a reaction to the history of undue use of force by police against black people, and historical examples of a lack of adequate justice for it. Painting it as those people mainly out to get free shit makes me sick.

You're right - I completely forgot that Grant was shot by employees of Footlocker and the jewelry store instead of the cops. Or were you implying that footlocker and the jewelry store have hidden police stations in them?

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I'm not getting sucked into one of your arguments. I stand by my posts.

Of course you're not, because there's NO WAY to excuse the looting, and it prevents you from tossing the race card out if someone mentions it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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Why do I get the feeling that some of the actions in these "riots" are less about protest and more about free shit?

Probably because of your personal preconceived notions.

Probably because there's a trend of what happens during these "riots".

You can tell by how the officer fired and his initial reaction that he did not intend to "bust a cap" is this dude.

With that said, the cop's negligence ended someone's life. 3-4 years in prison is not enough time, I think 10 would do it......assuming it was negligence and not on purpose.

[Andy9o8 2]

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the black hooded agitators

Hey, not all hooded agitators are black, you know.
The white hooded agitators steal stupid stuff, like espresso beans and Birkenstocks.

[rushmc 23]

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the black hooded agitators

Hey, not all hooded agitators are black, you know.
The white hooded agitators steal stupid stuff, like espresso beans and Birkenstocks.

I took it as the hoods were black not those wearing them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

Again - I'm not fond of this forum because some people can't have a civil discussion. But I can't seem to help myself on this one. I researched the case just a little bit and found more questions than answers. And by the way - I have been a cop - I have known cases personally - I have NEVER seen the facts reported objectively on the news. But here are a couple of questions brought up by posts here:

Other than the fact that the dead guy is black and the cop is white, was there any indication that race was a factor in this case?

If one claims the cop is a racist only because he is white and the victim is black; isn't that a racist stance to take?

Is a thief not a thief if he times it during a protest?

If you are exercising your right to protest something and consider your position moral, ethical and legal; why did you bring a mask?

Twelve people were presented the actual evidence. They received legal guidance from an elected and trained Judge. They heard arguments from trained attorneys. They all came to the same conclusion. Hundreds of thousands will have no legal training or advice, will 'hear' about evidence as presented by people who put their own slant on it, and will come to hundreds of thousands of varied opinions that they think are absolutely beyond reproach. They will go on forums such as this one and state things as fact that they have 'heard' second hand at best. Hmmmm.

I have been a cop. If you have not been in those shoes, please don't make silly arguments about what you would have done.

I have known cops who pulled their weapon once per year for mandatory qualification only. Not the 'thousands' supposed by one poster.

If you think a cop in a tense situation; trying to figure out where backup is; trying to keep track of potential other attackers; trying to control the suspect; adrenaline pumping; heart pounding; is suddenly thinking, "Hmmm. That trigger pressure seemed a couple of pounds light." you haven't been there.

This cop messed up in the worst possible way. But all this Monday Morning Quarterback stuff is ridiculous. Nobody here knows anything about this case. The jury that was presented everything we could legally give them, is presumed to have done the best they could.

Protesters are protesters. Thieves are thieves. Try not to confuse them.

Sometimes, people make mistakes without any thought of the relative skin colors of the persons they are dealing with. Hard to believe for some, but it happens. Assuming otherwise indicates that you might be a racist.

If you were not on the jury, you obviously don't have all of the facts. Even juries don't receive ALL of the facts. Most people are just doing the best they can.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 23]

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Again - I'm not fond of this forum because some people can't have a civil discussion. But I can't seem to help myself on this one. I researched the case just a little bit and found more questions than answers. And by the way - I have been a cop - I have known cases personally - I have NEVER seen the facts reported objectively on the news. But here are a couple of questions brought up by posts here:

Other than the fact that the dead guy is black and the cop is white, was there any indication that race was a factor in this case?

If one claims the cop is a racist only because he is white and the victim is black; isn't that a racist stance to take?

Is a thief not a thief if he times it during a protest?

If you are exercising your right to protest something and consider your position moral, ethical and legal; why did you bring a mask?

Twelve people were presented the actual evidence. They received legal guidance from an elected and trained Judge. They heard arguments from trained attorneys. They all came to the same conclusion. Hundreds of thousands will have no legal training or advice, will 'hear' about evidence as presented by people who put their own slant on it, and will come to hundreds of thousands of varied opinions that they think are absolutely beyond reproach. They will go on forums such as this one and state things as fact that they have 'heard' second hand at best. Hmmmm.

I have been a cop. If you have not been in those shoes, please don't make silly arguments about what you would have done.

I have known cops who pulled their weapon once per year for mandatory qualification only. Not the 'thousands' supposed by one poster.

If you think a cop in a tense situation; trying to figure out where backup is; trying to keep track of potential other attackers; trying to control the suspect; adrenaline pumping; heart pounding; is suddenly thinking, "Hmmm. That trigger pressure seemed a couple of pounds light." you haven't been there.

This cop messed up in the worst possible way. But all this Monday Morning Quarterback stuff is ridiculous. Nobody here knows anything about this case. The jury that was presented everything we could legally give them, is presumed to have done the best they could.

Protesters are protesters. Thieves are thieves. Try not to confuse them.

Sometimes, people make mistakes without any thought of the relative skin colors of the persons they are dealing with. Hard to believe for some, but it happens. Assuming otherwise indicates that you might be a racist.

If you were not on the jury, you obviously don't have all of the facts. Even juries don't receive ALL of the facts. Most people are just doing the best they can.

I will assume you are just posting to me because I was the last in the thread when you decided to do so.

That said, I agree with you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

I suggest reading the Wikipedia article on the BART shooting. Yes, I know its wiki, user generated content, etc...

It has many details about both sides are interesting.

[mutumbo 0]

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I have known cops who pulled their weapon once per year for mandatory qualification only. Not the 'thousands' supposed by one poster.

And you dont see a problem with this? They are carrying a lethal device used under supremely stressful situations, and they never practice with it? To me thats about as stupid a thing as one can do, right? Id use my piss poor skydiving analogy again but im afraid it would hurt my case again, lol.

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[Lucky... 0]

They received legal guidance from an elected and trained Judge.

I can't speak for all jurisdictions, but Superior Ct judges here are appointed by the gov, then a panel confirms; I don't think it's the state senate but it could be. They are elected in ballots only for show, it takes a small % to confirm at eelction time, I don't think it's even 1/2.

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Twelve people were presented the actual evidence.

Fortunately juries are never wrong or influenced by status, celebrity, etc.

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Hundreds of thousands will have no legal training or advice, will 'hear' about evidence as presented by people who put their own slant on it, and will come to hundreds of thousands of varied opinions that they think are absolutely beyond reproach. They will go on forums such as this one and state things as fact that they have 'heard' second hand at best. Hmmmm.

Right and they will watch one of the 5 cellphone vids and draw a conclusion; how presumptious.

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I have been a cop. If you have not been in those shoes, please don't make silly arguments about what you would have done.

Like this dirty pig that shot and killed a woman from behind, per the only 3 alive witnesses and all forensic ev, was tried for 2nd degree murder down to engangerment of the 1 YO child in tha back sedt....the acquitted: http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-02-15/news/17187934_1_police-officers-bart-police-dangerous-job

I DID watch the trial, I DO know who this pig is and the valley was in an uproar over this for years. BTW, I did speak with the prosecutor at length about this too, years after the trial. Pigs like this make the few good cops outt here look bad and this pig even had the nerve to sue his fellow cops and the police chief that fell on teh sword for him to try to silence them: http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2004-092518

PLease save the sanctimonious rhetoric.

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This cop messed up in the worst possible way. But all this Monday Morning Quarterback stuff is ridiculous.

Bad quartbacks get tossed for sucking too, if you don't want the responsibility and criticism, don't take the job.

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The jury that was presented everything we could legally give them, is presumed to have done the best they could.

And still you'll sit there unhappy with the 95 OJ acquittal.

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If you were not on the jury, you obviously don't have all of the facts. Even juries don't receive ALL of the facts. Most people are just doing the best they can.

Right, the people who get all the facts are the peanut gallery; when the jury is excused for args, they don;t see what the PG sees.

I think the vid shows plenty. I suppose the Rodney King vid was overblown too, right? Which is why pig-loving jurisdictions are trying to make it a crime to videotape cops in action.

[DaVinci 0]

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So take out the piss poor skydiving analogy and my point still stands. .

It is actually a really good analogy. In his stress situations people often mean to do one thing, but do another.

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The guy either pulled his gun without looking to see what he had in his hand an BLINDLY fired it

In no training program I have had, in the military or as a civilian, was a "check to make what type of weapon you are holding" part of the presentation process.

[DaVinci 0]

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Probably because of your personal preconceived notions.

Then maybe you could explain why people that are pissed at the cops damage individuals property and loot individuals and stores instead of attacking the object of their anger directly?

[Andy9o8 2]

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So take out the piss poor skydiving analogy and my point still stands. .

It is actually a really good analogy. In his stress situations people often mean to do one thing, but do another.

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The guy either pulled his gun without looking to see what he had in his hand an BLINDLY fired it

In no training program I have had, in the military or as a civilian, was a "check to make what type of weapon you are holding" part of the presentation process.

Analogies are tough with this situation, but I'd think that in a situation where two devices that have a similar feel and operation are located very near each other on one's person, and it can be anticipated that the user will use them quickly by feel, some manner of training specifically targeted to avoid tactile mis-identification would be in order. So unless one of your jobs had similar equipment (like, say, a samurai who carries both a long sword and a short sword), then no, I wouldn't expect that your training would have addressed that.

http://eu.cyberdusk.pl/AsiaEurope/quiz/Samurai.jpg

[Andy9o8 2]

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Probably because of your personal preconceived notions.

Then maybe you could explain why people that are pissed at the cops damage individuals property and loot individuals and stores instead of attacking the object of their anger directly?

Because every group has a few assholes, not just the darkies.