dj123 0
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Got a point to make or is this just a circle jerk?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
dj123 0
QuoteGot a point to make or is this just a circle jerk?
Which did you show up for Lamb Hands?
No point . I'm just curious as to how many Americans believe themselves to be Free.
Blue Skies,
DJ
airdvr 210
Freedom's just another word for nuthin' left to lose...
Please don't dent the planet.
Destinations by Roxanne
Destinations by Roxanne
muff528 3
Quote[reply
Yesterday we celebrated Independence. The struggle for Freedom and Liberty never ends.
Why do you think that is?
Blues,
dj
Simple. My vision of Freedom and Liberty may infringe upon your vision..... and vicey-versey.
allowed to exist and are supported by "civilians" whom the world is wringing their hands over trying to "save" from the wars. The 20th century tyrants had a lot of "civilian" support from some groups of "civilians" to the mortal detriment of other groups of people. Some say that the oppressed peoples should have just submitted to tyranny, a la Gandhi. Others elect to resist.
muff528 3
QuoteQuoteGot a point to make or is this just a circle jerk?
Which did you show up for Lamb Hands?
No point . I'm just curious as to how many Americans believe themselves to be Free.
Blue Skies,
DJ
You probably need to define "freedom" to be able to continue a dialogue that would make any sense. (Freedom is not anarchy, IMO).
dj123 0
QuoteQuote[reply
Yesterday we celebrated Independence. The struggle for Freedom and Liberty never ends.
Why do you think that is?
Blues,
dj
Simple. My vision of Freedom and Liberty may infringe upon your vision..... and vicey-versey.
allowed to exist and are supported by "civilians" whom the world is wringing their hands over trying to "save" from the wars. The 20th century tyrants had a lot of "civilian" support from some groups of "civilians" to the mortal detriment of other groups of people. Some say that the oppressed peoples should have just submitted to tyranny, a la Gandhi. Others elect to resist.
Interesting.
So do you know of any way one can experience true Freedom and Liberty other than engaging in struggle and conflict ?
Blue Skies,
DJ
dj123 0
[reply
You probably need to define "freedom" to be able to continue a dialogue that would make any sense. (Freedom is not anarchy, IMO).
You probably need to define "freedom" to be able to continue a dialogue that would make any sense. (Freedom is not anarchy, IMO).
How about if we use the Libertarian definition which basicly says you can do what ever you like as long as it doesn't interfere with the Rights of Another.
As an American ,and considering that definition of Freedom, do you consider yourself a Free Man?
Blue Skies,
DJ
muff528 3
...........
Interesting.
So do you know of any way one can experience true Freedom and Liberty other than engaging in struggle and conflict ?
Blue Skies,
DJ
Interesting.
So do you know of any way one can experience true Freedom and Liberty other than engaging in struggle and conflict ?
Blue Skies,
DJ
Do you really want "true Freedom and Liberty"? Even two people stranded on a desert island will have to come to some understanding and make up some rules (laws) in order to coexist peacefully........either that or one kills the other!
Funny, the very first thing to come to mind is to move to an isolated island and escape people altogether! During one of our fishing trips to Bimini several (many!) years ago we met a local fellow who showed us around some fishing spots in the area. He said he always dreamed of going to the Charlotte Harbor area of Florida to live. To him that was paradise! We told him that he already lived in paradise..... and then we realized that that island (that was a couple hundred feet wide by a couple of miles long) was his whole world! My point?.... true Freedom and Liberty = isolation = prison!
muff528 3
Quote[reply
You probably need to define "freedom" to be able to continue a dialogue that would make any sense. (Freedom is not anarchy, IMO).
How about if we use the Libertarian definition which basicly says you can do what ever you like as long as it doesn't interfere with the Rights of Another.
As an American ,and considering that definition of Freedom, do you consider yourself a Free Man?
Blue Skies,
DJ
Now we have to define "rights". I, and all other citizens of the US, have the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".....in that order! along with the rights enumerated in the irrevocable "Bill of Rights". (All other amendments may be repealed except the 1st Ten. They are part and parcel of the Constitution as it was originally ratified and along with the Declaration of Independence form the foundation of the Union.) .... and that's it! My right to "Life" supercedes your right to "Liberty" (which supercedes someone else's right to the "Pursuit of Happiness".) I also think that "Liberty" in this context is not to be confused with "Freedom". For example, there is no inherent "right to privacy". We allow our citizens to enjoy their privacy as provided by law.
dj123 0
Quote...........
Do you really want "true Freedom and Liberty"? Even two people stranded on a desert island will have to come to some understanding and make up some rules (laws) in order to coexist peacefully........either that or one kills the other!Quote
Considering the definition of Freedom I provided which does require Respect for others' Rights, is Freedom possible in your reality?
Funny, the very first thing to come to mind is to move to an isolated island and escape people altogether!
My point?.... true Freedom and Liberty = isolation = prison!
You state that Freedom and Liberty = isolation = prison.
Are you isolated or incarcerated muff528?
If not can I assume that you are an American who doesn't feel the Providence of Freedom?
Now I'm serious.
Do you, living in the United States of America, really believe that you aren't Free?
Blue Skies,
DJ
dj123 0
Quote
Now we have to define "rights". I, and all other citizens of the US, have the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".....in that order! along with the rights enumerated in the irrevocable "Bill of Rights". (All other amendments may be repealed except the 1st Ten. They are part and parcel of the Constitution as it was originally ratified and along with the Declaration of Independence form the foundation of the Union.) .... and that's it! My right to "Life" supercedes your right to "Liberty" (which supercedes someone else's right to the "Pursuit of Happiness".) I also think that "Liberty" in this context is not to be confused with "Freedom". For example, there is no inherent "right to privacy". We allow our citizens to enjoy their privacy as provided by law.
Interesting !
You mention the Bill of Rights" .
Do you know that document?
How about number 5?
Could you list that for me?
Are you a Free Man?
Blue Skies,
DJ
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteare you talking about French fries ?
I'm talking about Freedom and Liberty my man. Those are the ideals the founding fathers hoped to aquire for all of us by escaping the yoke of the British Crown.
Do you feel like you are a Free Man?
Blue Skies,
DJ
Right, blacks and women need not apply.
dj123 0
[reply
Right, blacks and women need not apply.
Right, blacks and women need not apply.
Listen, I can't speak for the women but I am Black and I am a Free American.
Blue Skies,
DJ
muff528 3
QuoteQuote...........
Do you really want "true Freedom and Liberty"? Even two people stranded on a desert island will have to come to some understanding and make up some rules (laws) in order to coexist peacefully........either that or one kills the other!Quote
Considering the definition of Freedom I provided which does require Respect for others' Rights, is Freedom possible in your reality?
Funny, the very first thing to come to mind is to move to an isolated island and escape people altogether!
My point?.... true Freedom and Liberty = isolation = prison!
You state that Freedom and Liberty = isolation = prison.
Are you isolated or incarcerated muff528?
If not can I assume that you are an American who doesn't feel the Providence of Freedom?
Now I'm serious.
Do you, living in the United States of America, really believe that you aren't Free?
Blue Skies,
DJ
You're beginning to get my point. Even with your libertarian definition of freedom no one gets to be entirely free! Not if you want to live in peaceful coexistence with other people. There will always be rules written that will not be embraced by everyone in a society. We are back to the endless struggle for Freedom and Liberty. We can do battle with ideas at the ballot box and accept the lawful results or we can do battle with hardware. To answer your question... I think we (collectively) are as free as any people has ever been or can hope to be, even if individually we are constrained from "doing things" by laws that we collectively agree upon.
dj123 0
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muff528 3
Quote[reply
Right, blacks and women need not apply.
Listen, I can't speak for the women but I am Black and I am a Free American.
Blue Skies,
DJ
These posts are getting out of order and making my head hurt!
What part of the 5th Amendment are you referring to?
Also... The problem with the treatment of various people's in this country (most notably the black population) is not the fault of the Constitution. As always it is the fault of men who have not lived up to their own ideals. The interpretations and definitions (even those applied by the founders!) were the source of our "original sin". If the founding ideas of this country are applied equally to everyone, as was "untentionally intended", we really would be a nation of free people. (as defined by me
dj123 0
[reply
These posts are getting out of order and making my head hurt!
What part of the 5th Amendment are you referring to?
Quote
I asked you to list the entire 5th ammendment.
As an American and considering that cherished Bill of Rights you mentioned, is it actually other Citizens which keep you from embracing your Natural Right to Freedom or the present government.
Could you cite for me the 5th Ammendment ?
Blue Skies,
DJ
Lucky... 0
Quote[reply
Right, blacks and women need not apply.
Listen, I can't speak for the women but I am Black and I am a Free American.
Blue Skies,
DJ
Whhhhoshhhhhh. If you were around when the FF were busy declaring freedom, the point being discussed, you shure as fuck would not. Let's stop celebrating these thugs as seekers of freedom and liberty.
I'm talking about Freedom and Liberty my man. Those are the ideals the founding fathers hoped to aquire for all of us by escaping the yoke of the British Crown.
Do you feel like you are a Free Man?
Blue Skies,
DJ
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