Andy9o8 2
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maadmax 0
Your hallucinations are NOT evidence.
Maybe so, but 33 years and going strong, thank God for what ever they are.
turtlespeed 226
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
I agree, the words written in the Bible are worthless and meaningless as long as they remain there. Which is why they are of no value to you. I understand and am in complete agreement with your viewpoint. But when the Words are written in the heart(volitional part of the mind) they have a supernatural power that transforms, heals and restores. Say what you will, those of us who have experienced this power are not concerned. Yes, there are some minor translational issues but the transformative message comes through loud and clear for those who have ears to hear. And however Christ died (which did involve being nailed to a wooden structure) He died that we may live.
Your hallucinations are NOT evidence.
Your inability to feel the holy spirit is not evidence either.
You just got an "F" in Logic 101. See the Registrar.
FAIL . . . Proceed to fail blog and submit yourself.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Coreece 190
QuoteOnce again, the point of the OP, is that the bible was misinterpreted!
well...since you insist, looks like you guys are now gonna have to learn Greek!
...but remember, it doesn't have to be that hard. Just have faith in God and He'll guide you...
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
Coreece 190
QuoteSo I'm puzzled why he is referencing them.
I'm not...not at all!
I wonder why that is?
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
skyrider 0
Quote
You sort of have to read the OPs article to understand what the point is. The researcher said that the word "cross" came from the greek word "Stauros". That word was translated as "cross" by scholars, but in his opinion, it could refer to any instrument of death that the Romans used.
So, the logical thing to do is look for other evidence that it was actually a cross. You would look for references of the Holy Wounds, and there are none, except for the spear in Jesus' side. And that would fit with the "death-on-a-stick" theory. Or you would look for evidence of the Stigmata, and there are no references to that either.
So outside the word "Stauros", there are no references to Jesus dying on a cross, and that word may have been mis-translated. It makes for an interesting subject matter.
I get the gist of the OP. Reference to nail holes in the resurrected Christ are seen in John 20:24-29 . Thomas put his fingers into the nail wounds that remained in Christ's hands.
...
Your back to a translated book again!
riddler 0
QuoteYes, there are some minor translational issues but the transformative message comes through loud and clear for those who have ears to hear.
My mom loves to quote that it's "easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".
Huh? What kind of deranged mind imagines a camel going through the eye of a needle?
Then you find out that the word camel, in Aramaic, is the same word as rope. OK, so it's easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle. That makes more sense, for sure.
But it doesn't stop the bible thumpers from talking about camels going through needles
For people that are passionate, logic has very little value.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
QuoteQuoteOnce again, the point of the OP, is that the bible was misinterpreted!
well...since you insist, looks like you guys are now gonna have to learn Greek!
...but remember, it doesn't have to be that hard. Just have faith in God and He'll guide you...
I already know Greek, at least Koine Greek. It doesn't really help settle this argument.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
riddler 0
QuoteReference to nail holes in the resurrected Christ are seen in John 20:24-29 . Thomas put his fingers into the nail wounds that remained in Christ's hands.
OK, this is a solid argument. Thanks for pointing out that passage. I was not aware of it.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
billvon 3,118
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Your inability to feel the holy spirit is not evidence either.
Correct. No evidence either way.
Correct. No evidence either way.
It is probable that the saying about the camel and the needle's eye was proverbial already in the time of Jesus. In the oldest extant Greek manuscripts of the Gospel of Matthew, the Sinaitic Manuscript, The Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, and the Alexandrian Manuscript, the word ka' me los appears. The indications are that Matthew wrote his account of the life of Jesus first in Hebrew and then translated it into Greek. He knew, therefore exactly what Jesus said and meant, and hence he knew the proper Greek word and that word according to the oldest extant Greek manuscripts, was ka' me los. There is good reason therefore, for believing "camel" to be the correct rendering. It wasn't until 9th and 10th century manuscripts that the word for 'rope' was used.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.
Coreece 190
QuoteQuoteQuoteOnce again, the point of the OP, is that the bible was misinterpreted!
well...since you insist, looks like you guys are now gonna have to learn Greek!
...but remember, it doesn't have to be that hard. Just have faith in God and He'll guide you...
I already know Greek, at least Koine Greek. It doesn't really help settle this argument.
Well then maybe a third option would be to attend the Church of their dearly beloved new found pastor...
...You'd have to admit it would be pretty sweet to see Skyrider rolling up to Church on his Hog sporting a "WWJD?" shirt with an "X" tattooed on his arm.
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
skyrider 0
...
All my inlaws are very active in the church, my FIL has a doctorate in theolegy,Phscolgy, and sumthin else,
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
and was a proffesor at a pennsilvania Bible college, plus is a retire navy chaplain,(Captain) that served in Korea, vietnam, and afganistan,
My BIL, is a Minister also...
I'm an atheist, we have some great converstions!
Quote
Your hallucinations are NOT evidence.
Maybe so, but 33 years and going strong, thank God for what ever they are.
50 years and no god .... I must be just plain lucky I guess.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
maadmax 0
QuoteQuoteYes, there are some minor translational issues but the transformative message comes through loud and clear for those who have ears to hear.
My mom loves to quote that it's "easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".
Huh? What kind of deranged mind imagines a camel going through the eye of a needle?
Then you find out that the word camel, in Aramaic, is the same word as rope. OK, so it's easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle. That makes more sense, for sure.
But it doesn't stop the bible thumpers from talking about camels going through needles
Except the New Testament passages were written in Koine greek not Aramaic, and the eye of the needle refers to a small door located in the Needle Gate that travelers would have to pass through if they wanted to enter Jerusalem at night. Camels could fit through the narrow door only after they have been totally unloaded. Needless to say it was a lot of trouble, but it thwarted attacks. A little research and a little less assumption might make understanding the Bible a little more likely.
...
Alice in Wonderland is far more entertaining and far more likely to be factual.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
maadmax 0
QuoteAlice in Wonderland is far more entertaining and far more likely to be factual.
There you go again, making assumptions.
QuoteQuoteAlice in Wonderland is far more entertaining and far more likely to be factual.
There you go again, making assumptions.
No assumptions. Just one opinion and one fact.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
riddler 0
QuoteExcept the New Testament passages were written in Koine greek not Aramaic
But we are speaking of Jesus, who did speak Aramaic, and not Greek. So there is weak evidence that he meant rope, not camel. However, I think most scholars concur with you that Camel was the correct interpretation. But then again, it's hard to say - if you are a "true believer", it's hard to put those beliefs aside when attempting to use logic.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
Live and let live...
To criticize and judge another man for his own beliefs whether right or wrong does not make either man right or wrong... it just makes one of them less of a man.
To criticize and judge another man for his own beliefs whether right or wrong does not make either man right or wrong... it just makes one of them less of a man.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
Meso 38
QuoteYour inability to feel the holy spirit is not evidence either.
I'm sorry but that's not how things work in the real world. The real world being one of science and facts. Wait, Christians don't believe in science right? Or only when it suits them?
In case you're unaware of how this works, he who proposes the existence of an object (or theory) must provide evidence before it becomes fact, or else it remains just that... A theory. It is up to he who proposes this to provide the evidence, not up to those who dispute the existence to find evidence against it.
Let's use our brains for a second here, let's say I propose to you that there is a sailing ship which floats around space, filled with pirates who created man out of seaweed and brought them to life. Can you prove me wrong? You can't. Does that make what I say right? No.
By the logic of every entity requiring proof of non-existence, then every other God also exists, since you cannot prove any other God non-existent. Making your religion equal to all others, as majority of them claim to experience their God talking to them, showing them signs etc. One may as well put their hand in a hat and draw what religion they want to believe, and by your logic they are all equally as correct.
And once again we can turn to logic and science, and see the body's ability to make things seem real even though they are not. The placebo effect is one example of this, if one believes enough he could make himself see what he wants to- and this is just pure science. The effects of mass hysteria in certain cases have proved this too. People like to play off their brains ability and pass it off as divine experience.
Therefore it is not up to the non-believer to prove the non-existence of an entity, the burden lays completely on he who suggests the existence. Otherwise every theory about everything is also correct.
QuoteA little research and a little less assumption might make understanding the Bible a little more likely.
Holy crap dude - talk about throwing stones. There is absolutely no archaeological evidence that such a door existed in Jerusalem, nor is there any description of such a door in any writing from the period. Apparently you know something that credible scholars don't.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.
maadmax 0
QuoteQuoteA little research and a little less assumption might make understanding the Bible a little more likely.
Holy crap dude - talk about throwing stones. There is absolutely no archaeological evidence that such a door existed in Jerusalem, nor is there any description of such a door in any writing from the period. Apparently you know something that credible scholars don't.
Well I don't know about what your "credible scholars" claim, but you can google Needle Gate Jerusalem if you wound like more information.
And yes I know there is probably some site somewhere that says Jerusalem never existed and certainly never had gates, and that the eye of the needle and camels are all mistranslated, and that we are all just holograms. The point of the passage being that earthly success does not necessarily equal acceptability to God.
...
As a previous poster astutely pointed out, "Therefore it is not up to the non-believer to prove the non-existence of an entity, the burden lays completely on he who suggests the existence."
I don't have to prove that the gate didn't exist, you have to prove it did since you are making the claim. Show me one archeaological piece of evidence or contemporary mention of the gate. Google it all you want, you can't.
Sad enough that you can't support metaphysical claims, now you are making 'unbelievers' prove the lack of existence of a physical gate? Don't you agree that the person who makes the claim for the existence of a physical object has the burden of proof to show that object exists? I am not talking about Jesus or the Easter Bunny, but rather a physical artifact that you say existed.
I don't have to prove that the gate didn't exist, you have to prove it did since you are making the claim. Show me one archeaological piece of evidence or contemporary mention of the gate. Google it all you want, you can't.
Sad enough that you can't support metaphysical claims, now you are making 'unbelievers' prove the lack of existence of a physical gate? Don't you agree that the person who makes the claim for the existence of a physical object has the burden of proof to show that object exists? I am not talking about Jesus or the Easter Bunny, but rather a physical artifact that you say existed.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.
You just got an "F" in Logic 101. See the Registrar.
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