Gun nut?

[nigel99 606]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10347166.stm

So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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The American Civil Liberties Union said Gardner's execution showed the US's "barbaric, arbitrary and bankrupting practice of capital punishment".

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One of the rifles aimed at Gardner will use an "ineffective" round. There is no greater symbol of the deep-seeded moral ambiguity we as a society feel about capital punishment than the use of this blank, which is intended to allow each squad member to reassure themselves that they were not necessarily the one who killed Gardner. If we are so sure that capital punishment is morally acceptable, why is this blank necessary?

...

The reality is that those who receive death sentences and are ultimately executed are merely casualties of an unequal system of justice. In Utah and across the country, decisions about who lives and who dies are largely dependent upon the skill of their attorneys, the race of their victim, their socioeconomic status and where the crime took place. Such infrequent, arbitrary and discriminatory administration of the death penalty is the very definition of a failed system.

[rehmwa 2]

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If we are so sure that capital punishment is morally acceptable, why is this blank necessary?

the blank isn't necessary - it's a milksop to those without the moral fortitude to recognize the actuality of protecting the citizenry from those that are a danger to others. One shouldn't be guilty any more than a judge should feel bad to send someone to jail.

It should not be 'satisfying' or make one happy to have to carry out justice. But it should be correct in your mind as a necessity - distasteful, but needed.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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If we are so sure that capital punishment is morally acceptable, why is this blank necessary?

the blank isn't necessary - it's a milksop to those without the moral fortitude to recognize the actuality of protecting the citizenry from those that are a danger to others. One shouldn't be guilty any more than a judge should feel bad to send someone to jail.

Hogwash. Why don't they just hire only people who have what you call "the moral fortitude to recognize the actuality of protecting the citizenry from those that are a danger to others" to work on the firing squad? What a cop out.

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It should not be 'satisfying' or make one happy to have to carry out justice.

There are lot's of Americans who are pretty satisfied.

[rehmwa 2]

Hogwash - do you really think they are protecting the guys on the firing squad? Or just doing something to make the public "FEEL" better.

{{Actually - I think it's a means to protect the members on the firing squad from legal prosecution if the laws ever change and someone with your viewpoint tries to scapegoat them}}

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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Hogwash - do you really think they are protecting the guys on the firing squad? Or just doing something to make the public "FEEL" better.

{{Actually - I think it's a means to protect the members on the firing squad from legal prosecution if the laws ever change and someone with your viewpoint tries to scapegoat them}}

Yeah, that's it!

[JohnRich 4]

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So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

Your attempt to draw a parallel between NRA members and murderers is disgusting.

No better than Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan comparing the NRA to the KKK:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view&post=3887024

[kelpdiver 2]

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The reality is that those who receive death sentences and are ultimately executed are merely casualties of an unequal system of justice. In Utah and across the country, decisions about who lives and who dies are largely dependent upon the skill of their attorneys, the race of their victim, their socioeconomic status and where the crime took place. Such infrequent, arbitrary and discriminatory administration of the death penalty is the very definition of a failed system.

The reality here is we have a guy who committed murder while on trial for committing murder. No lawyer was going to change the outcome.

[turtlespeed 226]

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So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

Your attempt to draw a parallel between NRA members and murderers is disgusting.

Yet not really surprising.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[skyrider 0]

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The reality is that those who receive death sentences and are ultimately executed are merely casualties of an unequal system of justice. In Utah and across the country, decisions about who lives and who dies are largely dependent upon the skill of their attorneys, the race of their victim, their socioeconomic status and where the crime took place. Such infrequent, arbitrary and discriminatory administration of the death penalty is the very definition of a failed system.

The reality here is we have a guy who committed murder while on trial for committing murder. No lawyer was going to change the outcome.

Sure...kick the Soapbox right out from under thier reasoning!

[turtlespeed 226]

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. . . thier reasoning!

Where exactly did you see THAT?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[nigel99 606]

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So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

Your attempt to draw a parallel between NRA members and murderers is disgusting.

No better than Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan comparing the NRA to the KKK:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view&post=3887024

I figure choosing a firing squad and the fact he used guns "might" make him a gun nut. Since most enthusiasts join clubs etc I simply suggested that such a dedicated enthusiast may hope to earn some credit I certainly never suggested that NRA members are murderers - simply that they are gun enthusiasts!

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Amazon 7]

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So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

Your attempt to draw a parallel between NRA members and murderers is disgusting.

No better than Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan comparing the NRA to the KKK:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view&post=3887024

I wonder how many of the good ole boys in groups like the KKK who exist out there on the fringe right.... are card carrying members of the NRA????

[wmw999 2,577]

Probably lots. But that doesn't mean the NRA as an organization condones them. But (just as the ACLU does), it probably does condone their right to hold assholish views.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skyrider 0]

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. . . thier reasoning!

Where exactly did you see THAT?

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The reality here is we have a guy who committed murder while on trial for committing murder.

[turtlespeed 226]

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. . . thier reasoning!

Where exactly did you see THAT?

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The reality here is we have a guy who committed murder while on trial for committing murder.

OH - so their reality is their reasoning?

That's good to know.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Andy9o8 2]

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No better than Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan comparing the NRA to the KKK:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view&post=3887024

Except she didn't. Any fucking idiot who understands the facts of that situation knows that that spin is a crock of shit. I think I said as much in that ridiculous thread.

[billvon 3,098]

>Hogwash - do you really think they are protecting the guys on the firing
>squad? Or just doing something to make the public "FEEL" better.

?? How does the public feel any better? Do they feel better if someone is killed by being shot 4 times instead of 5? The only potential "feeling better" comes from not being one of the people who actually killed him.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I figure choosing a firing squad and the fact he used guns "might" make him a gun nut. Since most enthusiasts join clubs etc I simply suggested that such a dedicated enthusiast may hope to earn some credit I certainly never suggested that NRA members are murderers - simply that they are gun enthusiasts!

He might just have a fear of needles. Or long prolonged death.

[skybill 22]

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The American Civil Liberties Union said Gardner's execution showed the US's "barbaric, arbitrary and bankrupting practice of capital punishment".

Quote

One of the rifles aimed at Gardner will use an "ineffective" round. There is no greater symbol of the deep-seeded moral ambiguity we as a society feel about capital punishment than the use of this blank, which is intended to allow each squad member to reassure themselves that they were not necessarily the one who killed Gardner. If we are so sure that capital punishment is morally acceptable, why is this blank necessary?

...

The reality is that those who receive death sentences and are ultimately executed are merely casualties of an unequal system of justice. In Utah and across the country, decisions about who lives and who dies are largely dependent upon the skill of their attorneys, the race of their victim, their socioeconomic status and where the crime took place. Such infrequent, arbitrary and discriminatory administration of the death penalty is the very definition of a failed system.

Hi Chang,
As far as the trip with the blank giving all the members of the "firing squad" the doubt that they may have "Not" killed the guy, ! Generally the weapon used will have sufficient "Kick" that using the blank would be obvious to the guy ending up with that round!! Interestingly the story goes about Marta Hari, the WWI spy who was executed by firing squad. Supposedly she refused the blindfold and everyone on the firing squad missed her carcass (including the blank) except "One!" and he got her dead nuts in the heart!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[RonD1120 62]

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10347166.stm

So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

It makes him an executed murderer who received the justice he earned.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[NewGuy2005 53]

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So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

Your attempt to draw a parallel between NRA members and murderers is disgusting.

No better than Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan comparing the NRA to the KKK:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view&post=3887024

I wonder how many of the good ole boys in groups like the KKK who exist out there on the fringe right.... are card carrying members of the NRA????

Wouldn't you like to know!

[davjohns 1]

I have excluded myself from this forum for a while because of childishness, rudeness and unreasonable attempts at argument. However, I have elected to drop back in on this issue.

If you have not had to sentence someone to punishment, it is hard to understand. If you have never taken a life, you can not understand. If you have never wrestled with your own conscience to determine what is right in this situation, you have the luxury of platitudes and strongly held opinions. (I mean to chastize both sides with this comment)

This case, if reported correctly, is a poor argument against the death penalty. There are plenty of excellent arguments against the death penalty. This is clearly not one.

Even so, I would be amazed if the officers who performed this execution were not changed by it. It is a heavy burden, even when absolutely necessary and just, to take a life. It should always be a heavy burden to punish another. If I ever reach the point where it does not pain me to punish, I will have ceased to be human.

Clearly, this person was dangerous to society and had to be removed. However, there is no joy in that. It should pain all of us that this became necessary. We should look for ways to prevent it in the future.

The blank was just a tradition and the traditional reason was given. Each person on that squad assumed moral responsibility for doing what had to be done.

The method of execution was chosen by the convict and was more humane than what he offered his victims. It was the best we can do. Sad, but true.

And to bring the NRA into the argument is silly. The NRA generally protects the right of the individual to protect themselves. This can never be a bad thing. All tools can be abused. This convict abused one and that is why he paid this price. To disarm everyone and leave more people open to becoming victims is ludicrous.

I would love to live in a world where firearms were not necessary. I would love to live in a world where the death penalty was not necessary. I would love to live in a world where there was no hatred, violence or corruption.

But I live here in reality. I have to deal with it as it is.

Please continue to wish for ideals and argue against things you think are unjust. We need that so we can continually examine what we do and why. But also recognize that you often argue things that you do not understand, because you have not been there. It is not nearly as easy as you would like to think.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[penniless 0]

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10347166.stm

So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

It makes him an executed murderer who received the justice he earned.

Whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"; Jesus, as quoted by Matthew.

[Amazon 7]

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10347166.stm

So this guy murders people using a gun and then selects to be executed by firing squad. Does that make him a gun nut and does he get honorary membership of the NRA?

It makes him an executed murderer who received the justice he earned.

Whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"; Jesus, as quoted by Matthew.

Yeah RIIIIIIIIIGHT

Why is it that our most vociferous conservative christian pro-life posters here are pro killing others in war and capitol punishment. I do hope that when they stand in judgement that those decisions in their lives come home to them.
Judge not lest ye be judged comes to mind and I think there just might be some weeping and gnashing of their teeth