Bloody Sunday

[Skyrad 0]

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Mr Cameron told MPs: "What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong. The Government is ultimately responsible for the conduct of the armed forces. And for that, on behalf of the Government, indeed on behalf of our country, I am deeply sorry."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100615/tuk-bloody-sunday-deaths-unjustified-e1cd776.html

Should the soldiers in question be held to account in a court of law? However unpalatable I say yes they should.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

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Mr Cameron told MPs: "What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong. The Government is ultimately responsible for the conduct of the armed forces. And for that, on behalf of the Government, indeed on behalf of our country, I am deeply sorry."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100615/tuk-bloody-sunday-deaths-unjustified-e1cd776.html

Should the soldiers in question be held to account in a court of law? However unpalatable I say yes they should.

I find the circumstances, and the legal question you raise, to have very close parallels to the Kent State shootings in the US on May 4, 1970.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_state_shooting

Eight guardsmen were criminally indicted, but the charges were dismissed by the court prior to trial. Several guardsmen were also sued civilly, but prevailed at the trial of the civil suit. That defense verdict was reversed on appeal, and the case was settled for $675,000 before it was re-tried.

Note that in the Kent State case, charges were filed and brought to court fairly promptly, more or less; evidence was still fresh. I don't know whether there is a statute of limitations on homicide offenses under UK law; but even if there is not, the problem with trying a case in court almost 40 years after the event is the degradation of evidence: people forget; people die; physical evidence gets lost or compromised, etc.

[Skyrad 0]

I don't see how it could be possible for the PM to make such a statement and for those responsible not to be held to account for their actions. If they are legally aquitted then so be it but justice must be seen to be done. If this was in the US I'd be saying it so I can hardly have a double standard for the British Army which should be held to the highest standards. Of course the circumstances of the time should be accounted for but justice must be done.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

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I don't see how it could be possible for the PM to make such a statement and for those responsible not to be held to account for their actions. If they are legally aquitted then so be it but justice must be seen to be done. If this was in the US I'd be saying it so I can hardly have a double standard for the British Army which should be held to the highest standards. Of course the circumstances of the time should be accounted for but justice must be done.

Please see the edited version of my post (esp. last para.), which I was in the process of editing when you posted this.

[skyrider 0]

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I don't see how it could be possible for the PM to make such a statement and for those responsible not to be held to account for their actions. If they are legally aquitted then so be it but justice must be seen to be done. If this was in the US I'd be saying it so I can hardly have a double standard for the British Army which should be held to the highest standards. Of course the circumstances of the time should be accounted for but justice must be done.

ditto...the best way to save face, is at least put on a show of a trial....

[Andy9o8 2]

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the best way to save face, is at least put on a show of a trial....

The problem with a "show trial" 38 years after the event is that if it is perceived by the public as being a legal sham (due to stale evidence) and more of a publicity stunt than a real attempt at legal recourse, the final impression could be worse.

[Skyrad 0]

A show trial would be detrimental to the situation at this point. If there is a trail it has to be full and fair.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

JINX!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[shropshire 0]

Unfortunately yes ..

BUT £195m, would have bought a LOT of hospital beds and school places ... How much of that we to fucking thieving lawyers?

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In February 2009, then Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward revealed the inquiry's lead QC Christopher Clarke had been paid £4.5m and Edwin Glasgow QC, representing the army, had received £4m. About a dozen other individual lawyers received more than £1m

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Andy9o8 2]

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How much of that we to fucking thieving lawyers?

baby needs new shoes

[Amazon 7]

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Unfortunately yes ..

BUT £195m, would have bought a LOT of hospital beds and school places ... How much of that we to fucking thieving lawyers?

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In February 2009, then Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward revealed the inquiry's lead QC Christopher Clarke had been paid £4.5m and Edwin Glasgow QC, representing the army, had received £4m. About a dozen other individual lawyers received more than £1m

That whole episode brought back this memory.... as I have been doing 80's videos in the backgound all day and it had popped up a while ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFM7Ty1EEvs


Youtube is kinda suckin on the network here today.... friggin furiners are all watching the silly version of football

[Andy9o8 2]

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That whole episode brought back this memory.... as I have been doing 80's videos in the backgound all day and it had popped up a while ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFM7Ty1EEvs

It's because we never learn... do we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7-m919ynU

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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That whole episode brought back this memory.... as I have been doing 80's videos in the backgound all day and it had popped up a while ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFM7Ty1EEvs

It's because we never learn... do we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7-m919ynU

It's different "we's" isn't it? (I'm not sure there should be an apostrophe there, but "wes" looked silly)

Brit Army and Ohio National Guard.

And it isn't all that surprising that the learning didn't happen. After all, the two incidents occurred within a couple years of each other.

It would seem that we (both the US and the Brits) have learned since then.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 2]

thanx for the buzz kill

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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thanx for the buzz kill

Sorry.

How about this -

WE HAVE TO TAKE TO THE STREETS AND DEMAND THE GOVERNMENTS OF BOTH THE US AND BRITAIN STOP THIS INHUMANE SLAUGHTER OF IT'S OWN CITIZENS WHO ARE SIMPLY EXERCISING THEIR RIGHTS!!!

Better?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I don't see how it could be possible for the PM to make such a statement and for those responsible not to be held to account for their actions. If they are legally aquitted then so be it but justice must be seen to be done. If this was in the US I'd be saying it so I can hardly have a double standard for the British Army which should be held to the highest standards. Of course the circumstances of the time should be accounted for but justice must be done.

And this is the reason politicians so rarely apologize for anything. A trial would probably cost several lives and perhaps lead to years of further troubles. Sometimes the past just needs to be left in the past.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I don't see how it could be possible for the PM to make such a statement and for those responsible not to be held to account for their actions. If they are legally aquitted then so be it but justice must be seen to be done. If this was in the US I'd be saying it so I can hardly have a double standard for the British Army which should be held to the highest standards. Of course the circumstances of the time should be accounted for but justice must be done.

And this is the reason politicians so rarely apologize for anything. A trial would probably cost several lives and perhaps lead to years of further troubles. Sometimes the past just needs to be left in the past.

Back in 1975 I deliberately ran a red light on Bloor Street in Toronto. I apologize, Andrew.

[Skyrad 0]

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Sometimes the past just needs to be left in the past.

Somtimes it does but only when people are ready to walk away from it. I don't know if that time will ever come in the North of Ireland. The majority of people would like to but those who are intent on violence will always live in the past trying to bring it int the present and future by any means they can.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Coreece 190]

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Bloody Sunday

13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnO_FxmHes

13

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQZLPV6xcHI)

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Amazon 7]

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Sometimes the past just needs to be left in the past.

Somtimes it does but only when people are ready to walk away from it. I don't know if that time will ever come in the North of Ireland. The majority of people would like to but those who are intent on violence will always live in the past trying to bring it int the present and future by any means they can.

Come on.. who really cares.. they were all just a bunch of worthless paddy's out makin trouble again. The damn micks just want to get drunk and lay around all day. The papist bastards just want to rewrite history ya know. They are so stupid you can use about any tactic ya want when you interrogate a bloody mick. Once ya get one talkin he can't shut up



Those are basicaly the words that a para officer that came to work with our Resistance Training Lab back in the 70's said to a bunch of us in a lecture he was giving on interrogation techniques that were being used successfully against detainee's.

I had to point out that 1/3 of Americans have Irish Ancestry. Its always amazed me how red faced a pissed off Englishman can get.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I don't see how it could be possible for the PM to make such a statement and for those responsible not to be held to account for their actions. If they are legally aquitted then so be it but justice must be seen to be done. If this was in the US I'd be saying it so I can hardly have a double standard for the British Army which should be held to the highest standards. Of course the circumstances of the time should be accounted for but justice must be done.

And this is the reason politicians so rarely apologize for anything. A trial would probably cost several lives and perhaps lead to years of further troubles. Sometimes the past just needs to be left in the past.

Back in 1975 I deliberately ran a red light on Bloor Street in Toronto. I apologize, Andrew.

Well, that's a start. Now we need to move forward. RETRIBUTION TIME!

[Skyrad 0]

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Sometimes the past just needs to be left in the past.

Somtimes it does but only when people are ready to walk away from it. I don't know if that time will ever come in the North of Ireland. The majority of people would like to but those who are intent on violence will always live in the past trying to bring it int the present and future by any means they can.

Come on.. who really cares.. they were all just a bunch of worthless paddy's out makin trouble again. The damn micks just want to get drunk and lay around all day. The papist bastards just want to rewrite history ya know. They are so stupid you can use about any tactic ya want when you interrogate a bloody mick. Once ya get one talkin he can't shut up



Those are basicaly the words that a para officer that came to work with our Resistance Training Lab back in the 70's said to a bunch of us in a lecture he was giving on interrogation techniques that were being used successfully against detainee's.

I had to point out that 1/3 of Americans have Irish Ancestry. Its always amazed me how red faced a pissed off Englishman can get.

So this is from your memoryof something you claim was said over 30 years ago? Hmmm...
And you'd be suprised just how many 'English' have Irish family ancestory

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

Sorry Jamile... but I have a DAMN good memory and its not a claim... it was fact. The guy was an asshat.. British officer's were not so common since there were not all that many of them that came over to our RT Lab.... I tend to remember asshats like that since it made a rather indelible impression at the time.