Save the environment, buy a Hummer avoid a Prius

[billvon 3,114]

>My post was to be evocate not advocate. It was to bring up a point of
>discussion.

Using a news article to start a discussion is great. But if the article is entirely incorrect, there's not much to discuss other than "it's entirely incorrect."

[brenthutch 444]

Look dude the argument is over: for those in the know, there will be no warming for the next 20 or 30 years. The confluence of the solar cycle and the Pacific decadal oscillation will out force anything in the co2 pipeline. Good decent and rational climate scientists who don’t have an agenda lament this because it belies their underlying science. They have it right AGW is happening, it is true and proveable. But a 1 degree rise in temps in 100 to 1000 years has no impact in the real world.
However any attempt at mitigating this non-problem could have catastrophic consequences. It will cost lives and livelihoods of millions across the planet while enriching the political elites.

[billvon 3,114]

>for those in the know, there will be no warming for the next 20 or 30 years.

I suspect that statement will require a careful backpedal in the near future.

>They have it right AGW is happening, it is true and proveable. But a
>degree rise in temps in 100 to 1000 years has no impact in the real
>world.

An interesting conclusion. (Not borne out by the data, but interesting nonetheless.)

[champu 1]

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The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers.

Have they?

There are much better places to test rover technology and it's not directly related to how "dead" they are. I suppose if any of the mining equipment companies headquartered in Sudbury were designing something, which is entirely possible, it would make sense to test it locally.

[quade 4]

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Look dude the argument is over: for those in the know, there will be no warming for the next 20 or 30 years.

Care to place a long term bet on that?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 2,147]

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I am just bringing up the point that there are externalities with green tech as well as the old school stuff.

My post was to be evocate not advocate. It was to bring up a point of discussion.

Ha ha, very droll.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Look dude the argument is over: for those in the know, there will be no warming for the next 20 or 30 years. The confluence of the solar cycle and the Pacific decadal oscillation will out force anything in the co2 pipeline. Good decent and rational climate scientists who don’t have an agenda lament this because it belies their underlying science. They have it right AGW is happening, it is true and proveable. But a 1 degree rise in temps in 100 to 1000 years has no impact in the real world.
However any attempt at mitigating this non-problem could have catastrophic consequences. It will cost lives and livelihoods of millions across the planet while enriching the political elites.

Meanwhile, in the arctic..

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 444]

Droll? How old are you? That is so 1940s

[brenthutch 444]

Looks like you need your money more that I do so I will pass.

[brenthutch 444]

I will see your ice data and raise you one


http://www.c3headlines.com/2010/06/2010-antarctica-peerreviewed-research-ice-core-data-confirms-medieval-period-warmer-than-present.html

[wmw999 2,587]

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Droll? How old are you? That is so 1940s

Quote

Looks like you need your money more that I do so I will pass.

Is that really the best you can do? You just have to respond to every post, even if it's just with an ad-hominem attack?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FreeflyChile 0]

Pish posh, if cost to own is an issue - then I bet, without doing any research what-so-ever, that numbers 3 or 4 on this list cost less to own than number 2 on this list.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/topten.jsp

(looking at the EPA list)

[billvon 3,114]

>then I bet, without doing any research what-so-ever, that numbers 3 or 4
>on this list cost less to own than number 2 on this list.

Probably true. And #6 is a very nice car as well. Great fuel economy and will run on biodiesel.

Of course none of them hold a candle to this in terms of cost of ownership _and_ energy usage:

http://epluselectricbike.com/shop/products/E_Elite_Mountain_Bike_1000_Watt-26-0.html

[FreeflyChile 0]

Yeah, but you can't pick up chicks in that the way you can in a Geo Metro.

[champu 1]

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Yeah, but you can't pick up chicks in that the way you can in a Geo Metro.

Tomas, the time to stop dating emo high school girls is when you're done with high school.

[skiskyrock 0]

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>then I bet, without doing any research what-so-ever, that numbers 3 or 4
>on this list cost less to own than number 2 on this list.

Probably true. And #6 is a very nice car as well. Great fuel economy and will run on biodiesel.

Of course none of them hold a candle to this in terms of cost of ownership _and_ energy usage:

http://epluselectricbike.com/shop/products/E_Elite_Mountain_Bike_1000_Watt-26-0.html

Does it even remotely make sense to put the battery on the front hub where it is exposed to vibration, centrifugal force, water etc? Plus all that unsprung weight must make handling interesting.

[billvon 3,114]

>Does it even remotely make sense to put the battery on the front hub
>where it is exposed to vibration, centrifugal force, water etc?

Worked pretty well for the Tidalforce, the Mata and the E+. (The battery doesn't spin BTW, just the outer hub does.) If you don't have a front suspension the unsprung weight isn't an issue, and it still maneuvers pretty well (weight is near the center instead of near the rim.)

On the last ebike I built I used a front suspension (mainly so I could get a front disk brake) and I moved the battery to the frame. That also works but brings the center of gravity a little higher, which is mostly a problem with non-riding handling (i.e. kickstands etc)

[idrankwhat 0]

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Toyota has a pretty competenent racing program, but they'll never be superior to Porsche

And both can will be able to tell the Audi diesel driver whether or not he's running rich

[idrankwhat 0]

Getting back to the topic of the thread, I'm probably going to pick up a used prius this week. In a couple of years when the warranty is almost up and gas prices are likely climbing it will be time for the Hymotion plug in conversion. Not only does the Prius utilize the plant based, oxymoronic "eco-plastics" in its construction, it also will allow me to get 75-100 mpg. Which means that we won't have to use nearly as many taxpayer funded Pentagon resources to secure my commute to work.

[brenthutch 444]

Talked to my Toyota dealer yesterday and he agreed with you that a used Prius is a great deal. The trouble is that when you have to replace the battery package it will cost you more than the car is worth. If you want to save the planet as well as you pocket book you would be better served by purchasing a used corolla.

Just like many issues, it is about how it makes you feel, not about logic or reason. And i don’t mean that in a disparaging way.

People buy hybrids because of the way it makes them feel. Much like a mid life crises male will buy a Corvette.

[billvon 3,114]

>The trouble is that when you have to replace the battery package it will
>cost you more than the car is worth.

Prius battery cost - $2500 (new)
Hummer H2 engine cost - $3600 (new)

Prius battery warranty - 100,000 miles
H2 factory engine warranty - 36,000 miles

[kelpdiver 2]

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>The trouble is that when you have to replace the battery package it will
>cost you more than the car is worth.

Prius battery cost - $2500 (new)
Hummer H2 engine cost - $3600 (new)

Is that net cost, or is there a trade in value to the old battery pack?

Brent - ouch. You want to talk about Prius here with people like Bill around, you better come with actual facts.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Quote

>The trouble is that when you have to replace the battery package it will
>cost you more than the car is worth.

Prius battery cost - $2500 (new)
Hummer H2 engine cost - $3600 (new)

Is that net cost, or is there a trade in value to the old battery pack?

Brent - ouch. You want to talk about Prius here with people like Bill around, you better come with actual facts.

. . . and what are the recycling fees associated with the batteries vs the engine?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,114]

>. . . and what are the recycling fees associated with the batteries vs the engine?

Toyota and Honda recycle the battery for free. I don't know how much it costs to recycle an engine; I've seen a lot just tossed in a junkyard or landfill.

[turtlespeed 226]

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>. . . and what are the recycling fees associated with the batteries vs the engine?

Toyota and Honda recycle the battery for free. I don't know how much it costs to recycle an engine; I've seen a lot just tossed in a junkyard or landfill.

Heh - I love it when someone says they do something for free. It's funny because the person saying it actually believes it is so.

Landfill - giving back what nature gave us - it will decompose.

Junk yard - iffy - maybe a piece or part can benifit someone, but not likely.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun