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billvon 3,109
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>So they're trying to come up with something expedient and simple.
>because the complex, long term solutions are extremely difficult to
>implement at that depth.
Yep. Like the man said, "for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong." The long term solution is the relief well; until then, stopgap measures will (unfortunately) have to do.
>because the complex, long term solutions are extremely difficult to
>implement at that depth.
Yep. Like the man said, "for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong." The long term solution is the relief well; until then, stopgap measures will (unfortunately) have to do.
I think a lot of people have no concept of the obstacles confronting the engineers on this project.
To put it in some perspective:
The pressures at that depth is roughly equal to the weight of a Ford Focus pressing down on an area the size of a US 50-cent piece. A lot of hydrulic systems operate at far less pressures.
The pipe they are working with is 21" OD and (from what I am told) 20" ID. An average size male could insert his entire forearm inside the pipe and would barely touch the sides with his fingers (fully extended) and elbow at the same time.
Gasses mixed with the oil expand and cool the oil/water mix to below freezing as they come out of the pipe creating a frozen slush that clogs even huge steel boxes built to capture the oil.
Every movement of the robots must be carefully planned so as not to put it or the other robots in a situation it can't get out of such as tangling in lines, cut pipes flailing at them or falling on them, etc.
Anything reaching from the surface to the well is incredibly heavy due to the distance involved. A 1" diameter steel rod reaching from a surface vessel to the bottom would weigh over 6.5 tons.
Every attempt to stop the flow must first address the question, "What if it doesn't work? Will failure on this attempt prevent future attempts?"
It's not an easy job and I don't envy those whose responsibility it is to come up with an answer.
To put it in some perspective:
The pressures at that depth is roughly equal to the weight of a Ford Focus pressing down on an area the size of a US 50-cent piece. A lot of hydrulic systems operate at far less pressures.
The pipe they are working with is 21" OD and (from what I am told) 20" ID. An average size male could insert his entire forearm inside the pipe and would barely touch the sides with his fingers (fully extended) and elbow at the same time.
Gasses mixed with the oil expand and cool the oil/water mix to below freezing as they come out of the pipe creating a frozen slush that clogs even huge steel boxes built to capture the oil.
Every movement of the robots must be carefully planned so as not to put it or the other robots in a situation it can't get out of such as tangling in lines, cut pipes flailing at them or falling on them, etc.
Anything reaching from the surface to the well is incredibly heavy due to the distance involved. A 1" diameter steel rod reaching from a surface vessel to the bottom would weigh over 6.5 tons.
Every attempt to stop the flow must first address the question, "What if it doesn't work? Will failure on this attempt prevent future attempts?"
It's not an easy job and I don't envy those whose responsibility it is to come up with an answer.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
1969912 0
Quote
Good ideas are worth having. Half-baked ideas from people who have no clue about the engineering issues involved just get in the way.
jiggle the BOP, it works for my toilet.
The BOP stack IS leaning to one side and the lean angle may be increasing. On Sunday they were checking the angle of the connector below the BOP with an inclinometer. Not sure if the lean is from all the work being done on top of the LMRP. It would be pretty bad if it were to break off.
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
billvon 3,109
>It would be pretty bad if it were to break off.
It would be even worse if the wellhead was starting to go.
It would be even worse if the wellhead was starting to go.
1969912 0
Quote>It would be pretty bad if it were to break off.
It would be even worse if the wellhead was starting to go.
If you mean breaking off down near the rock, yeah, way worse.
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDon't kid yourself dude, this was not a 'contribution'.
At least I have the want to try to fix it. Unlike those that are just posting dribble and expect someone else to do it all for them.
Someone else does have to do it for us. Someone else has to do it for you, too - no matter how many DIY 'solutions' you want to post here. None of us posting here has the expertise or resources to head off into the Gulf and plug the leak.
no, but a completely unworkable and asinine solution we might come up with here, could give an engineer an idea that is workable.
it's called brainstorming.
I'm sure the engineers have left the drawing board and are monitoring internet clubs 24-7.
Lucky... 0
Quote>So what is your solution?
The ultimate solution is probably the transverse well.
> How much effort have you applied to this problem, besides arguing?
An hour or so of research into the composition of the plume, natural gas compressor horsepower requirements, problems with clathrate formation in expanding gases and strength-of-materials research into steel pipe. Also a page of so of calculations to back up the above. How about you?
And how many years of engineering in different areas that are still relative. This reminds me of another person, last fall, claiming he knew miles more about acft sheetmetal after having limited to no experience vs me w/25+ years exp. I'll gladly admit I have no idea as to what to do with the well simply because I don't understand the issue other than there's a big hole in teh earth spewing raw, crude oil.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDon't kid yourself dude, this was not a 'contribution'.
At least I have the want to try to fix it. Unlike those that are just posting dribble and expect someone else to do it all for them.
Someone else does have to do it for us. Someone else has to do it for you, too - no matter how many DIY 'solutions' you want to post here. None of us posting here has the expertise or resources to head off into the Gulf and plug the leak.
no, but a completely unworkable and asinine solution we might come up with here, could give an engineer an idea that is workable.
it's called brainstorming.
Evidently it won't make any difference - because ideas don't actually mean anything anymore. - just see the post above yours,
Just give up - don't try - lay down and roll over and submit. The New Liberal Mantra
Good ideas are worth having. Half-baked ideas from people who have no clue about the engineering issues involved just get in the way.
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This is shaping up like the cliche about opinions.
Amazon 7
Well it depends on when you go tothe beach at Galveston the next time.... and the size of the jelly rubber toys you take with you to plug the gas from entering the water.
He had no idea of the 'genius' in his midst.
Chuck
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