Gravitymaster 0 #1 June 1, 2010 There is a £1000 Reward for anyone who can explain how this wouldn't work. Have at it. Consider this following programme of reform: Print cash and replace all the demand-deposits/IOUs that exist in the system with that cash. This means the government printing approx £850 billion in cash and injecting it directly into the vaults of the banks and into the accounts of individuals. Thus, if you deposited £100 once thinking it was “yours,” it now really exists in cash, with the bank acting as custodian of your money. Mandate all banks to hold your cash (100% reserved) on demand at all times. Wipe from the bank ledgers all the demand-deposits/IOUs as banks would not owe you money anymore. This means the “thin air” money disappears, to be replaced exactly with cash money. Note: this is not inflationary, as the cash replaces the demand-deposit which acted as money. As we have established, it is only thin-air that the banking system has created to facilitate the multiplicity of lending of the same bit of money, so its total replacement with cash would mean the money supply stays exactly the same. Require all banks to lend real savings that people knowingly place with banks to lend to businesses to get a return of interest and capital back when the business repays that loan. This is nice, simple and safe utility banking. This is what Mervyn King advocates. As you are not a creditor of the bank anymore, the banking system will only have its assets and its capital, i.e. no liabilities. This means that there never again could be a bank run. As for the banks, not having you the depositor as a liability anymore, they will suddenly be £850 billion better off, with no current liabilities and only assets (loans to business etc), post reform. The government can now put those assets into Mutuals, which would then immediately pay off the national debt, and leave the banks in exactly the same position net worth wise as they were prior to the reform, owned by their existing shareholders. As the national debt is still just under the £850 billion, which would be available as surplus assets of the banks, this could still be achieved. No national debt means no interest costs (currently £40 billion p.a) associated with paying for our borrowing. Therefore, give an immediate 28.5% income-tax cut. Total income-tax raised is £142 billion. http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/05/the-emperors-new-clothes-how-to-pay-off-the-national-debt-give-a-28-5-tax-cut/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #2 June 1, 2010 QuoteAs for the banks, not having you the depositor as a liability anymore, they will suddenly be £850 billion better off, Nope.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #3 June 1, 2010 Great, go collect your reward. Let us know how it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #4 June 1, 2010 "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat . . . and wrong." Nice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy. No more construction loans, for one. Banks simply wouldn't have the piles of money required to fund large projects. "so its total replacement with cash would mean the money supply stays exactly the same." Correct. Our economy requires it to grow to function. (BTW his "I'll pay you 1000 pounds" thing is complete bullshit. He's saying that so people spread his information for him; it worked for you.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dj123 0 #5 June 1, 2010 QuoteThere is a £1000 Reward for anyone who can explain how this wouldn't work. Have at it. Consider this following programme of reform: Print cash Quote What is the "cash" backed by? Printing "cash" without value will never work. Send me my check for worthless cash. dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #6 June 1, 2010 [replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #7 June 1, 2010 Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,595 #8 June 1, 2010 QuoteGreat, go collect your reward. Let us know how it goes. Collecting on spurious offers made only for the sake of publicity has long proved to be a futile pastime. In fact, I'll give you £1000 reward if you can prove you understand the proposal. Have at it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #9 June 1, 2010 QuoteThere is a £1000 Reward for anyone who can explain how this wouldn't work. Have at it. replacement with cash would mean the money supply stays exactly the same. Require all banks to lend real savings that people knowingly place with banks to lend to businesses to get a return of interest and capital back when the business repays that loan.Quote OK ... so if everything is a set amount of cash, where is the money created to cover interest on loans? Where do the interest payments come from? Blue Skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #10 June 1, 2010 His entire "solution" shows an astonishing level of ignorance of how the banks and financial systems actually work. And the cash reward? Yeah, that's like Lucky offering a reward for cinvincing him why socialism wouldn't work. All he has to do is ignore the logic (par for the course) and you can't prove it because no government is self destructive enough to do this.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #11 June 1, 2010 Quote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #12 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor I think we're in agreement here . You said it better. How about we split the reward 60/40? Blue skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #13 June 1, 2010 >Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #14 June 1, 2010 Good to see ya back man, even if it's only for a drive by posting. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #15 June 1, 2010 Quote>Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Seven million? HA! That's chump change! My relative left me $23,000,000! I can't wait until it shows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #16 June 1, 2010 This sound suspiciously like the "B-Ark" Golgafrinchans' use of leaves for currency.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #17 June 1, 2010 CAPTAIN Oh precisely yes. So it was decided to build three ships, three Arks in space, anyway…where’s the soap? Ah! Thank you. Ah! So the idea was that into the first ship, the A Ship, would go all the brilliant leaders… NUMBER ONE The scientists… CAPTAIN Yes, the great artists, you know, all the achievers. And then, into the third ship, the C Ship, would go all the people who did the actual work; who made things and did things you see. And then in the B Ship - NUMBER ONE That’s us. CAPTAIN Yes. Would go everyone else, the middlemen you see. And so we were sent off first. 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dj123 0 #6 June 1, 2010 [replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #7 June 1, 2010 Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,595 #8 June 1, 2010 QuoteGreat, go collect your reward. Let us know how it goes. Collecting on spurious offers made only for the sake of publicity has long proved to be a futile pastime. In fact, I'll give you £1000 reward if you can prove you understand the proposal. Have at it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #9 June 1, 2010 QuoteThere is a £1000 Reward for anyone who can explain how this wouldn't work. Have at it. replacement with cash would mean the money supply stays exactly the same. Require all banks to lend real savings that people knowingly place with banks to lend to businesses to get a return of interest and capital back when the business repays that loan.Quote OK ... so if everything is a set amount of cash, where is the money created to cover interest on loans? Where do the interest payments come from? Blue Skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #10 June 1, 2010 His entire "solution" shows an astonishing level of ignorance of how the banks and financial systems actually work. And the cash reward? Yeah, that's like Lucky offering a reward for cinvincing him why socialism wouldn't work. All he has to do is ignore the logic (par for the course) and you can't prove it because no government is self destructive enough to do this.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #11 June 1, 2010 Quote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #12 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor I think we're in agreement here . You said it better. How about we split the reward 60/40? Blue skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #13 June 1, 2010 >Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #14 June 1, 2010 Good to see ya back man, even if it's only for a drive by posting. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #15 June 1, 2010 Quote>Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Seven million? HA! That's chump change! My relative left me $23,000,000! I can't wait until it shows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #16 June 1, 2010 This sound suspiciously like the "B-Ark" Golgafrinchans' use of leaves for currency.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #17 June 1, 2010 CAPTAIN Oh precisely yes. So it was decided to build three ships, three Arks in space, anyway…where’s the soap? Ah! Thank you. Ah! So the idea was that into the first ship, the A Ship, would go all the brilliant leaders… NUMBER ONE The scientists… CAPTAIN Yes, the great artists, you know, all the achievers. And then, into the third ship, the C Ship, would go all the people who did the actual work; who made things and did things you see. And then in the B Ship - NUMBER ONE That’s us. CAPTAIN Yes. Would go everyone else, the middlemen you see. And so we were sent off first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Gravitymaster 0 #7 June 1, 2010 Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #8 June 1, 2010 QuoteGreat, go collect your reward. Let us know how it goes. Collecting on spurious offers made only for the sake of publicity has long proved to be a futile pastime. In fact, I'll give you £1000 reward if you can prove you understand the proposal. Have at it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dj123 0 #9 June 1, 2010 QuoteThere is a £1000 Reward for anyone who can explain how this wouldn't work. Have at it. replacement with cash would mean the money supply stays exactly the same. Require all banks to lend real savings that people knowingly place with banks to lend to businesses to get a return of interest and capital back when the business repays that loan.Quote OK ... so if everything is a set amount of cash, where is the money created to cover interest on loans? Where do the interest payments come from? Blue Skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #10 June 1, 2010 His entire "solution" shows an astonishing level of ignorance of how the banks and financial systems actually work. And the cash reward? Yeah, that's like Lucky offering a reward for cinvincing him why socialism wouldn't work. All he has to do is ignore the logic (par for the course) and you can't prove it because no government is self destructive enough to do this.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #11 June 1, 2010 Quote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #12 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor I think we're in agreement here . You said it better. How about we split the reward 60/40? Blue skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #13 June 1, 2010 >Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #14 June 1, 2010 Good to see ya back man, even if it's only for a drive by posting. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #15 June 1, 2010 Quote>Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Seven million? HA! That's chump change! My relative left me $23,000,000! I can't wait until it shows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #16 June 1, 2010 This sound suspiciously like the "B-Ark" Golgafrinchans' use of leaves for currency.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #17 June 1, 2010 CAPTAIN Oh precisely yes. So it was decided to build three ships, three Arks in space, anyway…where’s the soap? Ah! Thank you. Ah! So the idea was that into the first ship, the A Ship, would go all the brilliant leaders… NUMBER ONE The scientists… CAPTAIN Yes, the great artists, you know, all the achievers. And then, into the third ship, the C Ship, would go all the people who did the actual work; who made things and did things you see. And then in the B Ship - NUMBER ONE That’s us. CAPTAIN Yes. Would go everyone else, the middlemen you see. And so we were sent off first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Kennedy 0 #10 June 1, 2010 His entire "solution" shows an astonishing level of ignorance of how the banks and financial systems actually work. And the cash reward? Yeah, that's like Lucky offering a reward for cinvincing him why socialism wouldn't work. All he has to do is ignore the logic (par for the course) and you can't prove it because no government is self destructive enough to do this.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #11 June 1, 2010 Quote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dj123 0 #12 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor I think we're in agreement here . You said it better. How about we split the reward 60/40? Blue skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #13 June 1, 2010 >Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #14 June 1, 2010 Good to see ya back man, even if it's only for a drive by posting. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #15 June 1, 2010 Quote>Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Seven million? HA! That's chump change! My relative left me $23,000,000! I can't wait until it shows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #16 June 1, 2010 This sound suspiciously like the "B-Ark" Golgafrinchans' use of leaves for currency.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #17 June 1, 2010 CAPTAIN Oh precisely yes. So it was decided to build three ships, three Arks in space, anyway…where’s the soap? Ah! Thank you. Ah! So the idea was that into the first ship, the A Ship, would go all the brilliant leaders… NUMBER ONE The scientists… CAPTAIN Yes, the great artists, you know, all the achievers. And then, into the third ship, the C Ship, would go all the people who did the actual work; who made things and did things you see. And then in the B Ship - NUMBER ONE That’s us. CAPTAIN Yes. Would go everyone else, the middlemen you see. And so we were sent off first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
dj123 0 #12 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote[replyNice idea, but replacing debt with cash - and then mandating that only cash be loaned - would have a very chilling effect on the economy.Quote In the current fractional reserve system , cash is debt. Blue Skies, dj123 The current system is fiat, NOT fractional, currency. Cash is specie, i.e. gold or silver. Exchange currency is one where there is a given amount of specie on deposit for every note in circulation, and every note can be redeemed in full by these deposits. Fractional currency is an IOU, which says that the paper relates to gold or silver on deposit, but the same money can be loaned out as much as 10 times, thus there is only a fraction of the face value of the paper actually in existance. If there is a run on the bank, there is still 90% of the paper in circulation when the bank is completely out of specie. Fiat currency says that the paper IS the money. There is no reference to specie, nor may it be redeemed for such by the Treasury or any bank. The reason the supposed fix won't work is that, at the end of the day, it is all paper. The net real worth of the money in circulation is that of the paper on which it's printed - assuming it is printed at all. More often than not, it's just electrons. Either way, the net value is "trust me" (which has a two-word translation). BSBD, Winsor I think we're in agreement here . You said it better. How about we split the reward 60/40? Blue skies, dj123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #13 June 1, 2010 >Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #14 June 1, 2010 Good to see ya back man, even if it's only for a drive by posting. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #15 June 1, 2010 Quote>Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Seven million? HA! That's chump change! My relative left me $23,000,000! I can't wait until it shows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #16 June 1, 2010 This sound suspiciously like the "B-Ark" Golgafrinchans' use of leaves for currency.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #17 June 1, 2010 CAPTAIN Oh precisely yes. So it was decided to build three ships, three Arks in space, anyway…where’s the soap? Ah! Thank you. Ah! So the idea was that into the first ship, the A Ship, would go all the brilliant leaders… NUMBER ONE The scientists… CAPTAIN Yes, the great artists, you know, all the achievers. And then, into the third ship, the C Ship, would go all the people who did the actual work; who made things and did things you see. And then in the B Ship - NUMBER ONE That’s us. CAPTAIN Yes. Would go everyone else, the middlemen you see. And so we were sent off first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 3,118 #13 June 1, 2010 >Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #14 June 1, 2010 Good to see ya back man, even if it's only for a drive by posting. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #15 June 1, 2010 Quote>Great, here's your chance to prove him wrong and collect your reward or expose >him as a fraud. Let us know how it goes. No need to even try. He will refuse to pay, just as they all do. It would be as fruitful as emailing the Nigerian Minister of Finance my bank account information so he can send me the sum of SEVEN MILLION ($7,000,000) dollars. (Or trying to collect on any of the various truther 'rewards.') Seven million? HA! That's chump change! My relative left me $23,000,000! I can't wait until it shows up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #16 June 1, 2010 This sound suspiciously like the "B-Ark" Golgafrinchans' use of leaves for currency.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #17 June 1, 2010 CAPTAIN Oh precisely yes. So it was decided to build three ships, three Arks in space, anyway…where’s the soap? Ah! Thank you. Ah! So the idea was that into the first ship, the A Ship, would go all the brilliant leaders… NUMBER ONE The scientists… CAPTAIN Yes, the great artists, you know, all the achievers. And then, into the third ship, the C Ship, would go all the people who did the actual work; who made things and did things you see. And then in the B Ship - NUMBER ONE That’s us. CAPTAIN Yes. Would go everyone else, the middlemen you see. And so we were sent off first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
