Kennedy 0 #51 June 2, 2010 Professor, have you ever known me to not support law enforcement, or believe they should be paid better and supported more by their administrators? I'd love for you to find an example of that. Ask AggieDave if you need help, he's been in some of the same threads as I have. I also don't appreciate being lumped into "The Right." Haven't we disagreed often enough for you to realize that I am a fairly intelligent human being, which is damn near mutually exclusive to believing either party line 100%? I'm sure you've seen me state that while not necessarily a Libertarian, have significant libertarian leanings. edit to add: However, believing local and state law enforcement is worth more than they are generally paid does not mean I think our federal government isn't bloated far beyond what is constitutional or financially feasible.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #52 June 2, 2010 Quote Quote And we have such an efficient system? If we quit fighting it and went to single payer there would be less waste and fraud. Doctors would be gov employed and therefore would have no reason to corrupt, fraud, steal, collude, etc. The system now is gov-paid via medicare for private svs, so fraud is aplenty. Quote You really believe this? You actually think that the people out there committing fraud will stop being scumbags and will suddenly become useful members of society? No, people getting HC will no longer be criminals and doctors won't have the ability to commit fraud as they will be employees of the gov. Quote You obviously underestimate the greed, laziness, and stupidity of dirtbags everywhere. Well, I don't, which is why I refuse to elect Republicans. Sure, there will be different kinds of fraud with a different system, but the system we now have is gov vs the private providers, I want the providers and the gov on teh same side; fraud will be easier to detect. Quote Lucky, have you ever worked directly with the government on anything in your life? I dunno, I was in the military and have worked for several military contractors on military aircraft. I deal with the FAA on occassion too. It's funny to have a kid, by your pic, try to challenge my experience when I was in and out of the military before you were born. I understand, a kid screaming for respect. Like the rest of us, you'll have to bide your time. Quote Or are you one of those people who has not actual experience beyond being dissatisfied with services provided? What services? Quote (which make me wonder, since you're not happy with the job they do now, what makes you think they'll do better with more money, more responsibility, and more red tape? What? Who's getting more money? The system will have more money, it willbe more distributed and HC professional's pay will likely fall a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #53 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnd China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. QuoteReally? Did you bother telling that to the former Sovet Union? East Germany? Romania? Poland? Yugoslavia? How about Cambodia? Ethiopia? Somalia? Afghanistan? Angola? yeah. They did well and have continued to flourish. Nothing like China, the biggest creditor nation. QuoteWe now have, what, five remaining communist states? China; Vietnam; Laos; NoKo; and Cuba. Am I missing any? I'm no expert on current Communist nations, sounds right. QuoteChina - yes. A powerhouse right now. Plenty of communist states become powerhouses and seem to be in great shape. Then eventually the Ponzi scheme of social engineering falls down and there is left a mess. OK, so you're guessing on a downfall. Most nations do cycle, we had our day in the 40's to the 60's, maybe 70's, then we took a shit. China was pathetic then and now they run the SOB. Right now China is exemplifying teh best economic model as a government by exploiting their people for the good of teh government (Communism). America has the elite exploiting the people for the benefit of the rich, themselves (Capitalism). Guess which works the best from a removed perspective? The biggest creditor vs the biggest debtor, gross not per capita. QuoteWhen you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. QuoteWho do you think runs China? Did you know that China is a one-party Communist state? Recall that Mao became the single elite - and he and his henchmen did quite well. The 30 million people who died in a famine were, I guess, not quite elite enough. Right, Chinese Communism establishes the means of production to benefit the state, not the people. American Capitalism establishes the means of production by the market, which is manipulated by the elite for the benefit of the elite. Communism and Capitalism have things in common, they both utilize utilitarian ideology to justify their actions. Sometimes the extreme opposites reach around and touch on the backside and share ideologies. QuoteXiaoping, when he took the helm, instituted reforms that made China more economically competitive by bringing in some capitalism. Oh yeah, they took the heads off of people in Tiananmen Square, too. OK, they still employ largely Communist protocol, esp outside of Bejing. QuoteOf course, presently, there is strong economic growth. This is, to a large extent, empowered by infratructural systems that are being built and have been built such as the Three Groges Dam - projects that are admirable in their ends but do not get done in places like the US anymore because of the environmental and community inpacts. Low wages and authoritarian control accomplish this. They have a fierce manufacturing base, needless to say. QuoteHowever, eventually, a grass roots movement develops where the people of a communist state eventually tire of dominance by the elites. It likely will happen in China. It won't be successful if it starts. QuoteNevertheless, one benefit of our economic interdependence is that China is just as reliant on the US. I'd prefer it to be otherwise - that the US didn't need Chinese money for fighting wars in the Middle east, on drugs, and on poverty. But since we cannot pay for it ourselves it's what happens. Due to our elite, whom which the government entrusted to keep manufacturing here, who outed much of our manufacturing, coupled with uber-low taxes allowing these same elite to maintain their money w/o circulating it, we've become a divided nation, divided by class. QuoteTake a look at Greece as an example of where we could be headed unless things are reeled in - and soon. Reeled in? Oh, more tax cuts, my friends? Jebus, tax cuts got us here and you guys think they'll save us. Look at history, hell, Eisenhower left taxes at 91% his entire terms and the debt fell a couple years. Look at that fascist pig, he chopped them to barely above Great Depression numbers and look what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,184 #54 June 2, 2010 Quote= I also don't appreciate being lumped into "The Right." I guess you should erase your posting history, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zep 0 #55 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote They seem largely concenrned with unchecked govt spending, porous borders, recidivist criminals, and a limited constitutional govt. They sound pretty libertarian to me (on the easy issues, anyway). The Border Patrol has difficulty meeting its recruiting goals. Perhaps a few of the TP folks would volunteer for a 3 year stretch at the border. Nice work environment: desert, 100 degee heat... Give me a green card at the end an I'll do five year stint as border control. 40C plus, sounds like heaven Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #56 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteand your examples are? Are they? Absent? Why yes they are.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #57 June 2, 2010 Congratulations, you have made two claims about another poster without substantiating them. You claimed I am 'the right' and that I changed my position regarding government funding. QuoteIt's really funny hearing the right changing its tune on rates of government pay and benefits when it suits their position Have you got anything to back up either one? At all? Or have you reverted back to annonying little claims and tid-bits thrown out without explanation or examples?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #58 June 2, 2010 QuoteRight now China is exemplifying teh best economic model as a government by exploiting their people for the good of teh government (Communism) And the government is occupied by the elites. A true stratification. Take a look at the living standards of China. You've got the rural Chinese and city Chinese. Many of those who were relocated from the Three Gorges flood plain did not receive compensation because it was stolen. Like it or not, there is a stratification of power. Under communism there are those without and those with power. And power is a zero sum game. The government uses the people and a few people use the government. Tens of millions starved in a famine (take a look and see if you can find any famines that were not a result of government policies). QuoteAmerica has the elite exploiting the people for the benefit of the rich, themselves (Capitalism). The US government exploits the rich for the poor. The poor don't pay income taxes. The government is funded almost entirely by wealthy individuals and corporations - and by creditors who loan money to further support the poor (and, to some extent, the wealthy). QuoteDue to our elite, whom which the government entrusted to keep manufacturing here, who outed much of our manufacturing, coupled with uber-low taxes allowing these same elite to maintain their money w/o circulating it, we've become a divided nation, divided by class. On this I disagree. The government made it pretty expensive. This is the unintended side effect of progressive policies. Make manufacturing, etc., too expensive to accomplish in the US and it will move elsewhere. For another example, check out San Francisco - the only ones who live there are the wealthy and the dirt poor. SF is possibly the greatest example of how stratifying "progressive" policies can make a society/culture. QuoteJebus, tax cuts got us here and you guys think they'll save us Negative. Spending increases got us here. Tax cuts do not operate in a vaccuum to a balanced budget. Spending outpaces revenue. If I was president I wouldn't ask Congress to cut taxes. I'd ask them to slash spending, maintain the taxes and start the process of paying off the national debt. I'd say, "I'm going to be a one-term president. Everybody will hate me and I'll be voted out. I'll take my beating now and hopefully my policies will be maintained so that in 30 years I'll be seen differently. When revenues fall, so should spending. The government acts like the worst of the private citizens - the types who will forgo the mortgage to go on a spending spree and rack up credit card debt. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,184 #59 June 2, 2010 QuoteCongratulations, you have made two claims about another poster without substantiating them. You claimed I am 'the right' and that I changed my position regarding government funding. QuoteIt's really funny hearing the right changing its tune on rates of government pay and benefits when it suits their position Have you got anything to back up either one? At all? Or have you reverted back to annonying little claims and tid-bits thrown out without explanation or examples? You have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #60 June 2, 2010 QuoteYou have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not. Which you apparently haven't read very closely. Fact: I have always been against "progressive" policies Fact: I have always supported individual freedoms Fact: I haev always been against unconstitutional and unsustainable government spending Fact: I have always supported higher pay/better conditions for law enforcement and military. Fact: I do not identify very closely with any party, but I am closest to Libertarian. I am certainly not "the Right" I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but you won't, because you can't.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,184 #61 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not. Which you apparently haven't read very closely. Fact: I have always been against "progressive" policies Fact: I have always supported individual freedoms Fact: I haev always been against unconstitutional and unsustainable government spending Fact: I have always supported higher pay/better conditions for law enforcement and military. Fact: I do not identify very closely with any party, but I am closest to Libertarian. I am certainly not "the Right" I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but you won't, because you can't. No need, you've just done it for us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,184 #54 June 2, 2010 Quote= I also don't appreciate being lumped into "The Right." I guess you should erase your posting history, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #55 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote They seem largely concenrned with unchecked govt spending, porous borders, recidivist criminals, and a limited constitutional govt. They sound pretty libertarian to me (on the easy issues, anyway). The Border Patrol has difficulty meeting its recruiting goals. Perhaps a few of the TP folks would volunteer for a 3 year stretch at the border. Nice work environment: desert, 100 degee heat... Give me a green card at the end an I'll do five year stint as border control. 40C plus, sounds like heaven Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #56 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteand your examples are? Are they? Absent? Why yes they are.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #57 June 2, 2010 Congratulations, you have made two claims about another poster without substantiating them. You claimed I am 'the right' and that I changed my position regarding government funding. QuoteIt's really funny hearing the right changing its tune on rates of government pay and benefits when it suits their position Have you got anything to back up either one? At all? Or have you reverted back to annonying little claims and tid-bits thrown out without explanation or examples?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #58 June 2, 2010 QuoteRight now China is exemplifying teh best economic model as a government by exploiting their people for the good of teh government (Communism) And the government is occupied by the elites. A true stratification. Take a look at the living standards of China. You've got the rural Chinese and city Chinese. Many of those who were relocated from the Three Gorges flood plain did not receive compensation because it was stolen. Like it or not, there is a stratification of power. Under communism there are those without and those with power. And power is a zero sum game. The government uses the people and a few people use the government. Tens of millions starved in a famine (take a look and see if you can find any famines that were not a result of government policies). QuoteAmerica has the elite exploiting the people for the benefit of the rich, themselves (Capitalism). The US government exploits the rich for the poor. The poor don't pay income taxes. The government is funded almost entirely by wealthy individuals and corporations - and by creditors who loan money to further support the poor (and, to some extent, the wealthy). QuoteDue to our elite, whom which the government entrusted to keep manufacturing here, who outed much of our manufacturing, coupled with uber-low taxes allowing these same elite to maintain their money w/o circulating it, we've become a divided nation, divided by class. On this I disagree. The government made it pretty expensive. This is the unintended side effect of progressive policies. Make manufacturing, etc., too expensive to accomplish in the US and it will move elsewhere. For another example, check out San Francisco - the only ones who live there are the wealthy and the dirt poor. SF is possibly the greatest example of how stratifying "progressive" policies can make a society/culture. QuoteJebus, tax cuts got us here and you guys think they'll save us Negative. Spending increases got us here. Tax cuts do not operate in a vaccuum to a balanced budget. Spending outpaces revenue. If I was president I wouldn't ask Congress to cut taxes. I'd ask them to slash spending, maintain the taxes and start the process of paying off the national debt. I'd say, "I'm going to be a one-term president. Everybody will hate me and I'll be voted out. I'll take my beating now and hopefully my policies will be maintained so that in 30 years I'll be seen differently. When revenues fall, so should spending. The government acts like the worst of the private citizens - the types who will forgo the mortgage to go on a spending spree and rack up credit card debt. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,184 #59 June 2, 2010 QuoteCongratulations, you have made two claims about another poster without substantiating them. You claimed I am 'the right' and that I changed my position regarding government funding. QuoteIt's really funny hearing the right changing its tune on rates of government pay and benefits when it suits their position Have you got anything to back up either one? At all? Or have you reverted back to annonying little claims and tid-bits thrown out without explanation or examples? You have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #60 June 2, 2010 QuoteYou have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not. Which you apparently haven't read very closely. Fact: I have always been against "progressive" policies Fact: I have always supported individual freedoms Fact: I haev always been against unconstitutional and unsustainable government spending Fact: I have always supported higher pay/better conditions for law enforcement and military. Fact: I do not identify very closely with any party, but I am closest to Libertarian. I am certainly not "the Right" I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but you won't, because you can't.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,184 #61 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not. Which you apparently haven't read very closely. Fact: I have always been against "progressive" policies Fact: I have always supported individual freedoms Fact: I haev always been against unconstitutional and unsustainable government spending Fact: I have always supported higher pay/better conditions for law enforcement and military. Fact: I do not identify very closely with any party, but I am closest to Libertarian. I am certainly not "the Right" I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but you won't, because you can't. No need, you've just done it for us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
futuredivot 0 #56 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteand your examples are? Are they? Absent? Why yes they are.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #57 June 2, 2010 Congratulations, you have made two claims about another poster without substantiating them. You claimed I am 'the right' and that I changed my position regarding government funding. QuoteIt's really funny hearing the right changing its tune on rates of government pay and benefits when it suits their position Have you got anything to back up either one? At all? Or have you reverted back to annonying little claims and tid-bits thrown out without explanation or examples?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #58 June 2, 2010 QuoteRight now China is exemplifying teh best economic model as a government by exploiting their people for the good of teh government (Communism) And the government is occupied by the elites. A true stratification. Take a look at the living standards of China. You've got the rural Chinese and city Chinese. Many of those who were relocated from the Three Gorges flood plain did not receive compensation because it was stolen. Like it or not, there is a stratification of power. Under communism there are those without and those with power. And power is a zero sum game. The government uses the people and a few people use the government. Tens of millions starved in a famine (take a look and see if you can find any famines that were not a result of government policies). QuoteAmerica has the elite exploiting the people for the benefit of the rich, themselves (Capitalism). The US government exploits the rich for the poor. The poor don't pay income taxes. The government is funded almost entirely by wealthy individuals and corporations - and by creditors who loan money to further support the poor (and, to some extent, the wealthy). QuoteDue to our elite, whom which the government entrusted to keep manufacturing here, who outed much of our manufacturing, coupled with uber-low taxes allowing these same elite to maintain their money w/o circulating it, we've become a divided nation, divided by class. On this I disagree. The government made it pretty expensive. This is the unintended side effect of progressive policies. Make manufacturing, etc., too expensive to accomplish in the US and it will move elsewhere. For another example, check out San Francisco - the only ones who live there are the wealthy and the dirt poor. SF is possibly the greatest example of how stratifying "progressive" policies can make a society/culture. QuoteJebus, tax cuts got us here and you guys think they'll save us Negative. Spending increases got us here. Tax cuts do not operate in a vaccuum to a balanced budget. Spending outpaces revenue. If I was president I wouldn't ask Congress to cut taxes. I'd ask them to slash spending, maintain the taxes and start the process of paying off the national debt. I'd say, "I'm going to be a one-term president. Everybody will hate me and I'll be voted out. I'll take my beating now and hopefully my policies will be maintained so that in 30 years I'll be seen differently. When revenues fall, so should spending. The government acts like the worst of the private citizens - the types who will forgo the mortgage to go on a spending spree and rack up credit card debt. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #59 June 2, 2010 QuoteCongratulations, you have made two claims about another poster without substantiating them. You claimed I am 'the right' and that I changed my position regarding government funding. QuoteIt's really funny hearing the right changing its tune on rates of government pay and benefits when it suits their position Have you got anything to back up either one? At all? Or have you reverted back to annonying little claims and tid-bits thrown out without explanation or examples? You have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #60 June 2, 2010 QuoteYou have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not. Which you apparently haven't read very closely. Fact: I have always been against "progressive" policies Fact: I have always supported individual freedoms Fact: I haev always been against unconstitutional and unsustainable government spending Fact: I have always supported higher pay/better conditions for law enforcement and military. Fact: I do not identify very closely with any party, but I am closest to Libertarian. I am certainly not "the Right" I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but you won't, because you can't.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #61 June 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou have a long posting history here. Don't try to claim what you are not. Which you apparently haven't read very closely. Fact: I have always been against "progressive" policies Fact: I have always supported individual freedoms Fact: I haev always been against unconstitutional and unsustainable government spending Fact: I have always supported higher pay/better conditions for law enforcement and military. Fact: I do not identify very closely with any party, but I am closest to Libertarian. I am certainly not "the Right" I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but you won't, because you can't. No need, you've just done it for us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
