Gawain 0 #1 June 1, 2010 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit!So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 June 1, 2010 I've been wondering for years why everyone seems to think that it's a good idea to get everything in the world all linked together and so co-dependant that if one things fails we are all FUCKED. I'd really prefer my country be strong enough to survive a serious war or a nasty economic disaster on the other side of the globe, but I don't have much hope for either situation. Land with source of clean water... expensive Solar panels... expensive Plants and animals that privde for my family... expensive Giving up the comfortable shit we don't really need... painful Peace of mind... Priceless.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #3 June 1, 2010 Quotehttp://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit! And China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. I guess when you oppress the people gov does well. When you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. This isn't really hard to understand; whomever is in power succeeds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #4 June 1, 2010 Of course we'll be there too, and on a larger scale than Greece. The question isn't if, but how soon."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #5 June 1, 2010 QuoteI've been wondering for years why everyone seems to think that it's a good idea to get everything in the world all linked together and so co-dependant that if one things fails we are all FUCKED. I'd really prefer my country be strong enough to survive a serious war or a nasty economic disaster on the other side of the globe, but I don't have much hope for either situation. Land with source of clean water... expensive Solar panels... expensive Plants and animals that privde for my family... expensive Giving up the comfortable shit we don't really need... painful Peace of mind... Priceless. So you want to be an isolationist country? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuotehttp://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit! And China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. I guess when you oppress the people gov does well. When you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. This isn't really hard to understand; whomever is in power succeeds. One of the most obtuse comments I've seen in a while. Well done. You like to cite "fascism" so often in your posts, well PRC is a perfect example, coupled with a single-party authoritarian system where human rights, the environment and the rule of law are easily melted away. I'm glad you're such a fan of China. When are you moving?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #7 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuotehttp://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit! And China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. I guess when you oppress the people gov does well. When you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. This isn't really hard to understand; whomever is in power succeeds. One of the most obtuse comments I've seen in a while. Well done. You like to cite "fascism" so often in your posts, well PRC is a perfect example, coupled with a single-party authoritarian system where human rights, the environment and the rule of law are easily melted away. I'm glad you're such a fan of China. When are you moving? America's is neo-fascism, China's more conventional Fascism with totalitarianism. Funny how theirs provides HC and ours does not. I guess when you spend 8 times what China does, that makes the diff. None the less, Chinese Communism is the most profitable system in the world as I know it. Maybe Taiwan is more efficient. American Capitalism is a bust, I see you keep thinking it's great and if we could only spend less on social svs and yet more on the military it wouldbe better, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotehttp://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit! And China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. I guess when you oppress the people gov does well. When you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. This isn't really hard to understand; whomever is in power succeeds. One of the most obtuse comments I've seen in a while. Well done. You like to cite "fascism" so often in your posts, well PRC is a perfect example, coupled with a single-party authoritarian system where human rights, the environment and the rule of law are easily melted away. I'm glad you're such a fan of China. When are you moving? America's is neo-fascism, China's more conventional Fascism with totalitarianism. Funny how theirs provides HC and ours does not. I guess when you spend 8 times what China does, that makes the diff. None the less, Chinese Communism is the most profitable system in the world as I know it. Maybe Taiwan is more efficient. American Capitalism is a bust, I see you keep thinking it's great and if we could only spend less on social svs and yet more on the military it wouldbe better, right? Let's see, we already spend more than double on HHS and Social Security than we do on defense...that doesn't include DoL or DoEd....add in stimulus and omnibus, we're somewhere around 4x ...you have your wish and we haven't even factored the healthcare reform bill. Really...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,133 #9 June 1, 2010 >So you want to be an isolationist country? Sounds like he just wants to be an isolationist family if it comes to that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #10 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotehttp://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit! And China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. I guess when you oppress the people gov does well. When you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. This isn't really hard to understand; whomever is in power succeeds. One of the most obtuse comments I've seen in a while. Well done. You like to cite "fascism" so often in your posts, well PRC is a perfect example, coupled with a single-party authoritarian system where human rights, the environment and the rule of law are easily melted away. I'm glad you're such a fan of China. When are you moving? America's is neo-fascism, China's more conventional Fascism with totalitarianism. Funny how theirs provides HC and ours does not. I guess when you spend 8 times what China does, that makes the diff. None the less, Chinese Communism is the most profitable system in the world as I know it. Maybe Taiwan is more efficient. American Capitalism is a bust, I see you keep thinking it's great and if we could only spend less on social svs and yet more on the military it wouldbe better, right? Let's see, we already spend more than double on HHS and Social Security than we do on defense...that doesn't include DoL or DoEd....add in stimulus and omnibus, we're somewhere around 4x ...you have your wish and we haven't even factored the healthcare reform bill. Really... And we have such an efficient system? If we quit fighting it and went to single payer there would be less waste and fraud. Doctors would be gov employed and therefore would have no reason to corrupt, fraud, steal, collude, etc. The system now is gov-paid via medicare for private svs, so fraud is aplenty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #11 June 1, 2010 Quote>So you want to be an isolationist country? Sounds like he just wants to be an isolationist family if it comes to that. Unless he gets in a pinch, then it's, "Gubbment, help me." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 29 #12 June 1, 2010 from a euro perspective: the euro-zone grew (imo) to quick ánd without the homework being done properly. bad point being that even the driving forces behind the whole project (germany & france) weren't abiding to the set rules all the time, and countries like italy, greece, spain and portugal had many fiscal & economical problems that weren't dealt with properly in the first place (read: before the union started). but once a system like the euro is up and running it would be suicidal (again mho) to try and go back - to much would be lost and to little gained. besides: the whole world faces massive economic problems and I guess its about high time that we finally overcome the dictate of everlasting growth. just some weeks ago I had quite an intersting read, published in the mid-seventies - the report of the club of rome. it was astonishing how accurate the problems we are facing right now were on the table nearly 40 years agoThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #13 June 1, 2010 Quotefrom a euro perspective: the euro-zone grew (imo) to quick ánd without the homework being done properly. bad point being that even the driving forces behind the whole project (germany & france) weren't abiding to the set rules all the time, and countries like italy, greece, spain and portugal had many fiscal & economical problems that weren't dealt with properly in the first place (read: before the union started). but once a system like the euro is up and running it would be suicidal (again mho) to try and go back - to much would be lost and to little gained. I guess this will delay the 2012 target for many of the Eastern European nations to join. (Poland, oddly, is doing pretty well in this current state of affairs) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 June 1, 2010 Quote None the less, Chinese Communism is the most profitable system in the world as I know it. Maybe Taiwan is more efficient. American Capitalism is a bust, I see you keep thinking it's great and if we could only spend less on social svs and yet more on the military it wouldbe better, right? Man, epic fail by Lucky. United States GDP: $ 14,260,000,000,000 2009 est. China $ 8,789,000,000,000 2009 est. US Population 310M (July 2010 Est) China Population 1330M (July 2010 Est) Don't even have to do the math. China has an extra BILLION people and still trails substantially. So efficiency isn't the word you're looking for. What China has is cheap labor, therefore it exports manufactured goods. Also has no Clean Air Act, so it is able to efficiently pollute the skies with coal dust. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #15 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteI've been wondering for years why everyone seems to think that it's a good idea to get everything in the world all linked together and so co-dependant that if one things fails we are all FUCKED. I'd really prefer my country be strong enough to survive a serious war or a nasty economic disaster on the other side of the globe, but I don't have much hope for either situation. Land with source of clean water... expensive Solar panels... expensive Plants and animals that privde for my family... expensive Giving up the comfortable shit we don't really need... painful Peace of mind... Priceless. So you want to be an isolationist country? plant whatever words you like, but it sounds like he wants to live in a piece of land where he can provide for his family from the land. It's referred to by some as "self sufficiency".-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #16 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote>So you want to be an isolationist country? Sounds like he just wants to be an isolationist family if it comes to that. Unless he gets in a pinch, then it's, "Gubbment, help me." and why not? he's paying taxes to that government right now isn't he?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #17 June 1, 2010 Well, at least Lucky is willing to admit that he is a fascist and doesn't have any respect for human rights or quality of life or the environment. That make him the most honest "progressive" I've ever met. By the way Lucky, China is a Fascist state. Do try to keep up.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteI've been wondering for years why everyone seems to think that it's a good idea to get everything in the world all linked together and so co-dependant that if one things fails we are all FUCKED. I'd really prefer my country be strong enough to survive a serious war or a nasty economic disaster on the other side of the globe, but I don't have much hope for either situation. Land with source of clean water... expensive Solar panels... expensive Plants and animals that privde for my family... expensive Giving up the comfortable shit we don't really need... painful Peace of mind... Priceless. So you want to be an isolationist country? Yeah, that'll do...---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 29 #19 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuotefrom a euro perspective: the euro-zone grew (imo) to quick ánd without the homework being done properly. bad point being that even the driving forces behind the whole project (germany & france) weren't abiding to the set rules all the time, and countries like italy, greece, spain and portugal had many fiscal & economical problems that weren't dealt with properly in the first place (read: before the union started). but once a system like the euro is up and running it would be suicidal (again mho) to try and go back - to much would be lost and to little gained. I guess this will delay the 2012 target for many of the Eastern European nations to join. (Poland, oddly, is doing pretty well in this current state of affairs) probably yes. as much as I like the idea of a unified europe without borders and a strong economic bond between the countries I still think the expansion/taking in more countris came way to early. we've been far to euphoric and optimistic and the way this continent (still) has to go in the near future doesn't seem to bright at all. to many questions are unanswered: will europe be able to speak with one voice (read: foreign affairs), who should take leadership (will there ever be something like a president for all? do we even want this???), how should things be dealt with on a local level (legislative waterhead based in brussels?), how are we going to deal with uprising and resurrection of nationalism (hungary comes to my mind but i guess there are other places as well that like to blame "europe" for homegrown problems) this list could be longer -so you see: greece is just on part of a much greater complex puzzleThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #20 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuote None the less, Chinese Communism is the most profitable system in the world as I know it. Maybe Taiwan is more efficient. American Capitalism is a bust, I see you keep thinking it's great and if we could only spend less on social svs and yet more on the military it wouldbe better, right? Man, epic fail by Lucky. United States GDP: $ 14,260,000,000,000 2009 est. China $ 8,789,000,000,000 2009 est. US Population 310M (July 2010 Est) China Population 1330M (July 2010 Est) Don't even have to do the math. China has an extra BILLION people and still trails substantially. So efficiency isn't the word you're looking for. What China has is cheap labor, therefore it exports manufactured goods. Also has no Clean Air Act, so it is able to efficiently pollute the skies with coal dust. I didn't sat China was the best EPA country, has the best standard of living (I even talked of oppression), or GDP per capita. Try to read again; CHINA HAS THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM IN THAT THEY ARE THE BIGGEST CREDITOR, WE ARE THE BIGGEST DEBTOR. I would never advocate Chinese Communism from an economic aspect or social aspect as one I would want to live in, but it's hard to twist the numbers into making us think Chinese Communism isn't an efficient system from a governmental aspect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #21 June 1, 2010 Quote Quote Quote >So you want to be an isolationist country? Sounds like he just wants to be an isolationist family if it comes to that. Unless he gets in a pinch, then it's, "Gubbment, help me." and why not? he's paying taxes to that government right now isn't he? See, I love this. I worked for this old guy who was/is a tea bagger and he hates socialism and all it stands for. Of course I could shut him up by tellingg him the way it is: He's a socialist who hates socialism, unless it's for the people who deserve it (according to him). He's colleccting social security an getting Medicare, yet he hates the idea of any kind of socialized medicine, even the innocuous BS that takes eefect in 2914. He's 67 and won't have to bear the burden of any of whatever the sky-is-falling crowd tryies to convice us of anyway. Many, many socialists vote Republican and receive SS cause they deserve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #22 June 1, 2010 QuoteWell, at least Lucky is willing to admit that he is a fascist and doesn't have any respect for human rights or quality of life or the environment. That make him the most honest "progressive" I've ever met. By the way Lucky, China is a Fascist state. Do try to keep up. You guys have a real hard time with critical thinking, huh? Show where I've ever advocated China as a greta nation, a kind nation, a fair to its people nation. I realize this, "all good or all bad" mentality, once assumed, is impossible to shake. China sucks but has the most efficient government from a governmental position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #23 June 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteI've been wondering for years why everyone seems to think that it's a good idea to get everything in the world all linked together and so co-dependant that if one things fails we are all FUCKED. I'd really prefer my country be strong enough to survive a serious war or a nasty economic disaster on the other side of the globe, but I don't have much hope for either situation. Land with source of clean water... expensive Solar panels... expensive Plants and animals that privde for my family... expensive Giving up the comfortable shit we don't really need... painful Peace of mind... Priceless. So you want to be an isolationist country? Yeah, that'll do... At least we have 1 honest person here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #24 June 1, 2010 Guess what Billvon, I find Luckys posts refreshing and no holes barred, I don't always agree with his opinions but he seems to have a better grip on what politicians are than you and a lot of others who post here. My opinion is that the Euro was designed for the benefit of France and Germany. With the attitude of I'm alright jack and the rest of you can go fuck yourselves. I've lived through two currency changes and both of them were a disaster. How many have you lived through? Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #25 June 1, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece This is quite a development. Greece needs their own deflation to get out from under. Stifles the imagination. They're at about 130% GDP, the US isn't far behind at 90%...when will need to hyper-inflate? Does anyone think we will have to? What will this mean to the Euro, I think it could mean the end...Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal could all follow suit. Germany and France would be royally f**ked. Holy shit! And China will be laughing. Seems that Communism is the most effective form of government from a fiscal stance. I guess when you oppress the people gov does well. When you allow for the elite to run things, the elite does well. This isn't really hard to understand; whomever is in power succeeds. One of the most obtuse comments I've seen in a while. Well done. You like to cite "fascism" so often in your posts, well PRC is a perfect example, coupled with a single-party authoritarian system where human rights, the environment and the rule of law are easily melted away. I'm glad you're such a fan of China. When are you moving? America's is neo-fascism, China's more conventional Fascism with totalitarianism. Funny how theirs provides HC and ours does not. I guess when you spend 8 times what China does, that makes the diff. None the less, Chinese Communism is the most profitable system in the world as I know it. Maybe Taiwan is more efficient. American Capitalism is a bust, I see you keep thinking it's great and if we could only spend less on social svs and yet more on the military it wouldbe better, right? Let's see, we already spend more than double on HHS and Social Security than we do on defense...that doesn't include DoL or DoEd....add in stimulus and omnibus, we're somewhere around 4x ...you have your wish and we haven't even factored the healthcare reform bill. Really... And we have such an efficient system? If we quit fighting it and went to single payer there would be less waste and fraud. Doctors would be gov employed and therefore would have no reason to corrupt, fraud, steal, collude, etc. The system now is gov-paid via medicare for private svs, so fraud is aplenty. Wait...wait...wait...wait...wait....ARE YOU SAYING THAT GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS AND THE BUREAUCRACY AREN'T CORRUPT AND THERE ISN'T FRAUD???!!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
