The ineptitude of private enterprise ...

[Rookie120 0]

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Did you happen to see the 60 Minutes piece I'm talking about?

No I didn't get to see it. I am at work now and video doesn't come in here very well. I will check it out when I get back home. I watched a program the other night on National Geographic about the first 36 hours after the fire broke out. Pretty good program.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[1969912 0]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-30/bp-lacked-well-control-six-weeks-before-blowout-e-mails-show.html

"May 30 (Bloomberg) -- BP Plc told U.S. regulators six weeks before its Gulf of Mexico well blew out that workers had difficulty maintaining control, according to e-mails released today by the House Energy and Commerce Committee investigating the spill.

A March 10 e-mail to Frank Patton, the Minerals Management Service’s drilling engineer for the New Orleans district, from BP executive Scherie Douglas said the company planned to sever the pipe connecting the well to the rig and plug the hole.

“We are in the midst of a well control situation on MC 252 #001 and have stuck pipe,” Douglas wrote, referring to the subsea block, Mississippi Canyon 252, of the stricken well. “We are bringing out equipment to begin operations to sever the drillpipe, plugback the well and bypass.”........"

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[kallend 2,146]

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>Ahhhhhh, ok and you think if the Govt came in and took control they
>could stop it any faster?

Nope; that pooch has been screwed already. The time to stop it would have been several months back. But that would have impacted profits.

What does Obama's inaction have to do with profits?

Well, that's obvious. If Obama had dived down to the ocean floor and personally stopped the leak as Republicans expected, BP's liability exposure would be a whole lot less.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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is exceeded only by their greed. Anytime in the future that I hear some right-winger proclaim that the government screws everything up, I am going to point out how BP has been trying for over a month to stop an oil leak

Big business is what pays for big government election campaigns.

Suggesting the two are separate seems unreasonable when the two fit together like a hand in a glove.

[1969912 0]

Four days after the Exxon Valdez accident:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/29/us/bush-sends-team-to-assess-cleanup.html?pagewanted=

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[turtlespeed 226]

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>Ahhhhhh, ok and you think if the Govt came in and took control they
>could stop it any faster?

Nope; that pooch has been screwed already. The time to stop it would have been several months back. But that would have impacted profits.

What does Obama's inaction have to do with profits?

Well, that's obvious. If Obama had dived down to the ocean floor and personally stopped the leak as Republicans expected, BP's liability exposure would be a whole lot less.

Why is he just now getting in a rush to send all the needed equipment in?

Why is that equipment not in place already?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,111]

>Why is that equipment not in place already?

Because our "capping oil wells whose BOP failed" department isn't all that big. A travesty, I know; it's a shame we didn't spend the extra few billion years back to be better prepared.

But at least now we know that we have to prepare for such things. Look for the creation of a bunch of new departments in the coming years, like the "massive fish tankers to restock Atlantic cod after potential chemical spills" department, the "defending chicken farms against illegal immigrant's dogs" department and the "coal slurry pond failure rescue submarines" department.

Shouldn't cost all that much, and I'm sure you can spare a few more bucks.

[jgoose71 0]

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Four days after the Exxon Valdez accident:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/29/us/bush-sends-team-to-assess-cleanup.html?pagewanted=

Only the most awesome post in this whole thread!!! Four days and they were bashing Bush Sr.

Obama can take his sweet ass time campaigning for Barbra Boxer, playing several rounds of golf, etc, etc, and according to the press, he's doing a wonderful job.

Nobody is is expecting him to dawn a MK-5 Diving helmet and go down and plug the well him self a-la "Men of Honor," but there are things he can be doing, like clean up.

Does anybody know if someone has cut the red tape yet to allow the Army Corps or Engineers to finally start building those burms to protect the marsh lands yet? Or are they still waiting on environmental impact studies?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billeisele 130]

the oil industry is on the cutting edge of exploring and technology, they had multiple levels of protection, apparently they cut some corners and will pay the price, they will learn from this and make changes

didn't the gov't kill some folks when the space shuttle exploded, was that problem known or foreseeable? was it a calculated risk? were the folks involved in that disaster held responsible?

I work with the feds every day and it is amazing that we even have an economy with the way they operate, I could tell dozens of stories of wasted spending, inaction, bad decisions, absolute incompetence, etc., they just don't care because it is not their money and they don't have to answer to anyone, and they all got raises the past 2 years

yes, there are good federal employees, and yes there are bad corporations, if I had to pick one over the other - private enterprise would easily win

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Andy9o8 2]

Hey. I read that BP's CEO recently said "I'm sorry." What more do you people want?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/30/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1

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BP chief to Gulf residents: 'I'm sorry'

(CNN) -- BP's CEO said Sunday he's sorry for the largest oil spill in U.S. history and the "massive disruption" it has caused the Gulf Coast, telling reporters the company hopes to corral most of the crude offshore.

"The first thing to say is I'm sorry," Tony Hayward said when asked what he would tell people in Louisiana, where heavy oil has already reached parts of the state's southeastern marshes.

He has repented. So leave him alone already.

[timmyfitz 0]

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Oh god! Here we go, IT'S BUSH's FAULT. Everyone can go home now.

Never said it was Bush's fault,

No you didn't, you just implied it.

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put in place by the previous Administration?

You never cease to amaze.

[kallend 2,146]

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Oh god! Here we go, IT'S BUSH's FAULT. Everyone can go home now.

Never said it was Bush's fault,

No you didn't, you just implied it.

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put in place by the previous Administration?

You never cease to amaze.

You amaze easily.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zep 0]

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But wait, didn't they just receive a safety award?

You mean the one they were going to be given by the industry bought and paid for MMS put in place by the previous Administration?

No. As it turns out they didn't get it.
http://www.themaritimelawyer.com/bp-will-not-receive-safety-award-this-year-after-all/

As for the MMS itself, I can guarantee you we've not seen the last of the heads roll over there. As soon as this fiasco is under control, there are going to be major investigations launched and it wouldn't surprise me at all if every seat all the way down to the guy that runs the coffee machines is replaced. There will be a new sheriff in town. You can count of that.

Wonder if that new sheriff will be called Halliburton.

Gone fishing

[riddler 0]

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3. Keep drilling.

Why should we keep drilling when we obviously learn nothing about how to handle the damaging results? Here is a video documenting the same scenario from 31 years ago. The failures were almost identical - the response almost identical - the results almost identical. In the end, it took 9 months for them to drill relief wells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBYlK0KOiDo&feature=player_embedded

If we can't do better in a disaster after 31 years, we'll never do better.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[billvon 3,111]

> Here is a video documenting the same scenario from 31 years ago. The
>failures were almost identical - the response almost identical - the results
>almost identical. In the end, it took 9 months for them to drill relief wells.

Yep. And that one was in 160 feet of water. I don't think the argument "if we could only drill in shallow water we'd be fine!" is going to fly.

[TankBuster 0]

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is exceeded only by their greed. Anytime in the future that I hear some right-winger proclaim that the government screws everything up, I am going to point out how BP has been trying for over a month to stop an oil leak

I just watched Carol Browner give an interview where she stated that "make no mistake - the government is in charge here." She was answering allegations that the Obama administration hasn't been involved, so she told of how there was a WH think tank with over 100 scientists in charge of the effort to plug the leak. Says BP has all the heavy equipment but the Feds have been in charge all along. Who's inept, again?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[riddler 0]

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Who's inept, again?

Why do expect the government to fix the problems of this private company? Are you a socialist now?

Lousiana Governor Bobby Jindal sponsored the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act (H.R. 4761), which allowed for this offshore drilling which has now polluted his very own coastline and our Gulf. I personally don't think the politicians are responsible for what private corporations are doing, but if you want to blame a pol, blame this guy.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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I work with the feds every day and it is amazing that we even have an economy with the way they operate, I could tell dozens of stories of wasted spending, inaction, bad decisions, absolute incompetence, etc., they just don't care because it is not their money and they don't have to answer to anyone, and they all got raises the past 2 years

Sounds just like the crooks that run wall street to me.

ETA: Or perhaps you are referring to the "feds" who have spent a trilllion dollars in Iraq and Afganistan and who do stuff like THIS?

So ... which feds are you talking about, really?

[TankBuster 0]

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Who's inept, again?

Why do expect the government to fix the problems of this private company? Are you a socialist now?

Lousiana Governor Bobby Jindal sponsored the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act (H.R. 4761), which allowed for this offshore drilling which has now polluted his very own coastline and our Gulf. I personally don't think the politicians are responsible for what private corporations are doing, but if you want to blame a pol, blame this guy.

You should read my post again and probably should have seen the interview. According to her, BP has been under the control of the Feds since this happened. Makes no difference who I think is responsible. She says they are.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[jakee 1,594]

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Who's inept, again?

Why do expect the government to fix the problems of this private company? Are you a socialist now?

Lousiana Governor Bobby Jindal sponsored the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act (H.R. 4761), which allowed for this offshore drilling which has now polluted his very own coastline and our Gulf. I personally don't think the politicians are responsible for what private corporations are doing, but if you want to blame a pol, blame this guy.

You should read my post again and probably should have seen the interview. According to her, BP has been under the control of the Feds since this happened. Makes no difference who I think is responsible. She says they are.

Responsible? You have no idea how desperate that stretch makes you look to pretty much everyone else. The Fed's don't know how to stop this leak - why should they? No-one else does. BP are the only guys there with the technology and equipment required to even try. So, unless you can show that the Fed's 'control' has extended any further than telling BP to "Plug that thing as soon as fucking possible!" I'd really love to know how you genuinely see the continuing leak as being their fault?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[TankBuster 0]

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Who's inept, again?

Why do expect the government to fix the problems of this private company? Are you a socialist now?

Lousiana Governor Bobby Jindal sponsored the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act (H.R. 4761), which allowed for this offshore drilling which has now polluted his very own coastline and our Gulf. I personally don't think the politicians are responsible for what private corporations are doing, but if you want to blame a pol, blame this guy.

You should read my post again and probably should have seen the interview. According to her, BP has been under the control of the Feds since this happened. Makes no difference who I think is responsible. She says they are.

Responsible? You have no idea how desperate that stretch makes you look to pretty much everyone else. The Fed's don't know how to stop this leak - why should they? No-one else does. BP are the only guys there with the technology and equipment required to even try. So, unless you can show that the Fed's 'control' has extended any further than telling BP to "Plug that thing as soon as fucking possible!" I'd really love to know how you genuinely see the continuing leak as being their fault?

You guys really need to learn to read/comprehend. I'm just telling you what Carol Browner said in the interview. That there was a think tank of 100 scientists and they were working with the WH to direct the efforts of BP. Her main point was that the WH was in control of the situation, which is bullshit. Just a politician being stupid, once again. I agree that BP needs to fix this.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[jakee 1,594]

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Her main point was that the WH was in control of the situation, which is bullshit.

Ah, so you don't actually think the Gov't is in control, you think BP is. So when you asked the question "Who's inept, again?" the answer you were looking for was, in fact, private enterprise.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 226]

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Her main point was that the WH was in control of the situation, which is bullshit.

Ah, so you don't actually think the Gov't is in control, you think BP is. So when you asked the question "Who's inept, again?" the answer you were looking for was, in fact, private enterprise.

The WH is saying that it is in control. BP says it is doing the best it can. Neither one knows what the solution is. Who is the fool here, the ones lying and projecting a false sense of power and control, or the ones telling the truth and taking action?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,594]

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Who is the fool here, the ones lying and projecting a false sense of power and control, or the ones telling the truth and taking action?

Ah, so BP are the unsung heroes of this mess are they?

They they were, just minding their own business when they noticed tens of millions of liters of oil flowing into the Gulf. Out of the goodness of their hearts they step in and try to cap it and then the poor bastards get nothing but grief! 'Tis an unfair world we live in.

BTW, on the subject of truth, how much oil does BP say is leaking and how much do independent scientists estimate?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,111]

> Who is the fool here, the ones lying and projecting a false sense of
>power and control, or the ones telling the truth and taking action?

The ones who actually caused the problem.