The war on illegal immigration

[marks2065 0]

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there are a lot of 'ifs' in that hypothetical situation. One, you assume that illegals get all kinds of govt assistance and I doubt that is true, given that most of those services require many forms of identification and such.

Many, if not most agencies of that kind have tightened up their requirements and screening - (have you tried to renew a drivers license lately?)

While illegals have no place in this country, the federal government has the job to do, not the local militia with the swastikas on their arms......

Stopping people just because of what they look like to ask for ID is simply WRONG. What about the illegal UK, French, Hungarian people who all look 'white and normal'?

The problem is solved by securing the borders. The borders get secured by patrols and troops. The government pays for that through TAXES. No one (it seems) in this country is willing to pay TAXES to the government, even if it means getting REAL work done, yet most complain that the government is not doing a good enough job.

The problem is simple to solve. We have 100,000 troops in foreign countries when they could be here guarding our borders. But once again, America and its politicians cannot see the forest for the trees.

we have the ability with what we have right now to secure the borders without the military. Our problem isn't that we need laws is that we need to actually enforce them.
Like I have posted before, the police and border patrols have their hands tied by the courts and government officials that do not let them do their job. Very few illegals get deported even when they are in police custody. the border patrol is not on the border they are up to 60 miles away from the border.

[okalb 104]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[marks2065 0]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

[okalb 104]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[Southern_Man 0]

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TK,

They do indeed get all kinds of govt assistance. They have caused severe financial hardships for many communities around the US. They get medical care at the local hospitals, they send their kids to our schools. They "do not" pay their bills either.

What about the cost to incarcerate them in our jails? This costs me money and I am sick and tired of it.

There are public costs associated with illegal immigration, however the screed that was posted above that TK was reacting to comes from somebody with no actual experience in the area of public benefits. Some benefits (such as schools) are available to all. Benefits such as Medicaid, Food Stamps, and public housing all require verification of citizenship. Are there illegals that slip through the cracks through forged documents or whatever? sure there are but audits of different programs all show that this is a very small percentage.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

So here's my challenge to you, given that you seem to be the icon representing the Christian contingent on here:

When Joe Legal and Jose Illegal turn up in the pews of the same church, and Jose Illegal is in a position to give three times as much money because of what you just wrote--will you stand up to the pastor and tell him/her that that is wrong?

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[marks2065 0]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it.

The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border.

Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does.

[mnealtx 0]

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Also, you can even stop a brown person in a car, lowering the SOP (standard of proof) from Probable cause to reasonable suspicion in traffic violation cases. IOW's, brown people have their requirement for traffic stops at Reasonable Suspicion, whitey still at Probable Cause. Yea, nothing violative of that .

E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP
21 ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
22 SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND
23 THIS SECTION.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

They must have mistakenly omitted 'brown' from the statute as you claim - maybe you should contact the state legislature and have them clear that up.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DanG 1]

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The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected.

The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered.

- Dan G

[okalb 104]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it.

The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border.

Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does.

Agreed, but looking Mexican doesn't mean you broke the law either.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[marks2065 0]

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The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected.

The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered.

You mean legal residents being affected by things like, less murders, less abuse of emergency rooms, less rapes, less kidnappings, things that I am sure are not high on the legal peoples lists of important things.

[okalb 104]

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The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected.

The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered.

You mean legal residents being affected by things like, less murders, less abuse of emergency rooms, less rapes, less kidnappings, things that I am sure are not high on the legal peoples lists of important things.

I am sure that many horrible crimes can be prevented by the government tapping the phones of everyone in the US at all times. Does that mean they should be allowed to do it?

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[mnealtx 0]

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Dealing with those already here and working is not going to be a simple or inexpensive matter, regardless of what you may think.

I agree that it would not be simple or inexpensive but......

Just because it is not simple or expensive should not be a valid reason to not enforce laws, regardless of what you may think.

Where did I write that it would be? Do pay attention, dear boy.

Where did timmyfitz write that it would be, before you posed the question to him? Do pay attention, dear boy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[marks2065 0]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it.

The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border.

Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does.

Agreed, but looking Mexican doesn't mean you broke the law either.

but there is a greater chance you did if you are mexican. just out of the fact that it is best to do things efficiently, I would concentrate my time and money working in the area that I would get the largest results and work out from there. that being said since most illegals are from mexico I would start there and work my way to the lower number of illegals like polish or french.

[Mad_Jasper 1]

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When Joe Legal and Jose Illegal turn up in the pews of the same church, and Jose Illegal is in a position to give three times as much money because of what you just wrote--will you stand up to the pastor and tell him/her that that is wrong?

Straw man

[airdvr 210]

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The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected.

The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered.

For 20+ years we've been hoping this problem would go away; it hasn't. A big part of the reason is folks who are afraid to hurt someone else's feelings.

It hasn't worked and it doesn't work on this issue so now we have the current reality that says if you are in AZ, you look like a Mexican and you're doing something illegal, involved in something illegal, or just hanging around a bunch of people who might be up to no good we're going to (gasp ) ask you a few questions and want to see some documentation that you are here legally. If you are a citizen please accept our apologies.

I'm sorry that it has gotten to this but the failure of the federal government to handle the issue has forced Arizona's hand, and I'll bet a few other states along the border will be starting their own version soon.

It's not popular, it's not pretty, it certainly isn't fashionable, but there it is. Better fix? Let's hear it.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[marks2065 0]

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The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected.

The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered.

For 20+ years we've been hoping this problem would go away; it hasn't. A big part of the reason is folks who are afraid to hurt someone else's feelings.

It hasn't worked and it doesn't work on this issue so now we have the current reality that says if you are in AZ, you look like a Mexican and you're doing something illegal, involved in something illegal, or just hanging around a bunch of people who might be up to no good we're going to (gasp ) ask you a few questions and want to see some documentation that you are here legally. If you are a citizen please accept our apologies.

I'm sorry that it has gotten to this but the failure of the federal government to handle the issue has forced Arizona's hand, and I'll bet a few other states along the border will be starting their own version soon.

It's not popular, it's not pretty, it certainly isn't fashionable, but there it is. Better fix? Let's hear it.

+1

people bitch and moan about problems and then stand in the way of fixing the problems. America is feed up and wants the problems to start getting fixed. Either come up with a workable solution that is better or shut the fuck up is my attitude. anything has someone that doesn't like it, you can never have 100% of the people to like anything. America has gotten to the point that if 1 person doesn't like something we tell the other 300 million sorry.
We are supposed to live in a democracy and that means the popular vote wins and those that didn't like the vote can accept the results and work harder to achieve there goals to get a larger vote next time or leave the country. In case somebody hasn't notice there are well over 100 other fucked up countries they can go to that actually do have the govermnet that better suites their ideals.

[okalb 104]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it.

The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border.

Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does.

Agreed, but looking Mexican doesn't mean you broke the law either.

but there is a greater chance you did if you are mexican. just out of the fact that it is best to do things efficiently, I would concentrate my time and money working in the area that I would get the largest results and work out from there. that being said since most illegals are from mexico I would start there and work my way to the lower number of illegals like polish or french.

So you feel that it ok to violate the civil rights of Americans in order to catch the people who are here illegally because that is the most efficient way to solve the problem? I will again bring up that many crimes could be prevented by the govt tapping all citizen's phones but I for one would be opposed to them taking such measures. So where do you draw the line? What rights is it ok to violate?

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Straw man

No it's not. Religious organizations have come down as among the biggest allies the illegal aliens have. At NumbersUSA, one of staunch lobbyists against illegal immigration, a lot of effort is put into encouraging their more religious members to put pressure on religious leaders to stop supporting illegal immigrants.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[okalb 104]

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people bitch and moan about problems and then stand in the way of fixing the problems. America is feed up and wants the problems to start getting fixed. Either come up with a workable solution that is better or shut the fuck up is my attitude. anything has someone that doesn't like it, you can never have 100% of the people to like anything. America has gotten to the point that if 1 person doesn't like something we tell the other 300 million sorry.

Funny you should put it that way because many on the left feel exactly the same way with regards to the way the right is behaving in the healthcare debate.

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We are supposed to live in a democracy and that means the popular vote wins and those that didn't like the vote can accept the results and work harder to achieve there goals to get a larger vote next time or leave the country.

If you believe that you should probably take a civics class.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[marks2065 0]

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I don't see anything wrong with registering all firearms. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter.

Fixed it for ya

A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it.

The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border.

Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does.

Agreed, but looking Mexican doesn't mean you broke the law either.

but there is a greater chance you did if you are mexican. just out of the fact that it is best to do things efficiently, I would concentrate my time and money working in the area that I would get the largest results and work out from there. that being said since most illegals are from mexico I would start there and work my way to the lower number of illegals like polish or french.

So you feel that it ok to violate the civil rights of Americans in order to catch the people who are here illegally because that is the most efficient way to solve the problem? I will again bring up that many crimes could be prevented by the govt tapping all citizen's phones but I for one would be opposed to them taking such measures. So where do you draw the line? What rights is it ok to violate?

so you think it is ok to violate people ? not just their rights? American citizens have the right to walk down the streets without being kidnaped robbed, raped, or killed. they also have the right to go to a hospital and get treated without a 2 hour wait because the room is full of illegals getting care in front of them that the citizen is paying for. I figure if I am paying for the illegals care and mine I should at least come first so I can get back to work so I can afford to pay my bills.

[tkhayes 348]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

Scroll down to 'Crime" Argues that no more crime is committed by illegals than by anyone else. And I agree. Why do you see more Mexicans? Because there are more Mexicans than 'hungarians'. There are more of them in emergency rooms and more of them are in jail and more of them are working on the farm for that matter.

Eastern Europeans also run crime syndicates in the USA; WHITE people with guns, who murder, rape and sell drugs and human beings and worse. But we passed a law that will likely NOT stop any of them because they look 'normal'

Emergency rooms are filled with WHITE people who do not pay their hospital bills, as well as illegals. I sat in the ER here in Zephyrhills and watched a "mexican' family deicde on what they could afford there and then PAID for it in cash.

It is simplay a paradigm that is not true. You actually ARE being racist when you segment one portion of the populace, or one color and blame societies problems on them without basing it on fact. So show me the facts

Welfare is the same way - all 'lazy black people' are on welfare, when in fact, most people on welfare are CHILDREN, and most women on welfare are WHITE.

Even if you took welfare completely out of the budget, we would save 1% of the total federal budget. I think we haev bigger fish to fry.

Are Mexican gangs running drugs and violence in our country? Yes they are. Is that bad? Yes it is. Do I want it to stop? Yes I do.

Legalize all the drugs that they are selling and the problem almost instantly goes away. We take their money away at the source and now they have nothing to do. Instead we spend billions trying to chase them around.

If you think that stopping some Mexican guy in Phoenix to ask for his ID is going to get rid of the gang problem, then ...... I have no idea what to say.....

[okalb 104]

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so you think it is ok to violate people ? not just their rights? American citizens have the right to walk down the streets without being kidnaped robbed, raped, or killed. they also have the right to go to a hospital and get treated without a 2 hour wait because the room is full of illegals getting care in front of them that the citizen is paying for. I figure if I am paying for the illegals care and mine I should at least come first so I can get back to work so I can afford to pay my bills.

Emergency rooms take people in order of the seriousness of the illness. I don't care about the nationality or legal status of an ill person. So if a person from England were here on vacation and had a heart attack, do you feel that they should have to wait to be helped because the Americans should go first?

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[masterrig 1]

For 20+ years we've been hoping this problem would go away; it hasn't. A big part of the reason is folks who are afraid to hurt someone else's feelings.

It hasn't worked and it doesn't work on this issue so now we have the current reality that says if you are in AZ, you look like a Mexican and you're doing something illegal, involved in something illegal, or just hanging around a bunch of people who might be up to no good we're going to (gasp ) ask you a few questions and want to see some documentation that you are here legally. If you are a citizen please accept our apologies.

I'm sorry that it has gotten to this but the failure of the federal government to handle the issue has forced Arizona's hand, and I'll bet a few other states along the border will be starting their own version soon.

It's not popular, it's not pretty, it certainly isn't fashionable, but there it is. Better fix? Let's hear it.

I think, a good time to start checking papers would be at all the rallies and protests coming up. Perfect opportunity. Check their permits to have the protest and other papers. From what I've seen, there'll be people of all races and colors protesting so, where would the profiling enter into it? Just a thought.

Chuck

[turtlespeed 226]

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so you think it is ok to violate people ? not just their rights? American citizens have the right to walk down the streets without being kidnaped robbed, raped, or killed. they also have the right to go to a hospital and get treated without a 2 hour wait because the room is full of illegals getting care in front of them that the citizen is paying for. I figure if I am paying for the illegals care and mine I should at least come first so I can get back to work so I can afford to pay my bills.

Emergency rooms take people in order of the seriousness of the illness. I don't care about the nationality or legal status of an ill person. So if a person from England were here on vacation and had a heart attack, do you feel that they should have to wait to be helped because the Americans should go first?

. . . THAT would depend on who the Englishman is . . . was . . .

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun