Coreece 190 #26 May 9, 2010 QuoteReally? Is it your position, then, that God is in the habit of overriding inmates free will to make them either murder or not murder other inmates guilty of crimes against children? I believe the inmates commit these acts because they are violent people and feel their actions are justified, but for whatever reason God allows it, just as He allows everything else rather it be good or evil. I also believe that God can protect certain individuals He chooses from such acts...for whatever reason. I personally know three men who believed God was protecting them from this violence. They couldn't understand why they weren't attcaked or even harrassed like some others that were in similar situations...They even felt as though they deserved this prison justice. They gave the credit to God and it ultimately led to a reconfirmed faith in Him.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #27 May 9, 2010 QuoteYou asked what my experience was, I was just answering. How can I be the problem when I don't work in the field? I was projecting an incident that has nothing to do with you or this thread...you are not the problem. I apologize. QuoteDo you feel it's just fine when other prisoners beat, rape, kill certain prisoners? no, and I'll admit that my statement about letting them be judged by their REAL peers is perhaps one of the most irresponsible and carless remarks I've ever made. Your's and Jakee's inquiry helped to to remember an incident that I completely forgot...While I was incarcerated there was a pedophile that was being harassed...nothing violent but extremely degrading. I even laughed at some of the things the inmates were doing to him. Part of me felt that he deserved it...but later that night in bed while reading the Bible I had an overwhelming sense of compassion for the man and I wept bitterly. I wept for his pain, I wept for laughing at him, I wept for having pitty on him and how the victim and his parents would've responded to my pity...I wept for my confusion, and I wept for the victim. I prayed that God would comfort and protect him...the next day he was transferred out of the general population, where he shouldn't have been in the first place. Though I don't think it's just fine when other prisoners beat, rape, or kill certain prisoners, I believe that threat may serve as a deterrent, but I have no evidence or research to support that.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,599 #28 May 13, 2010 QuoteQuoteReally? Is it your position, then, that God is in the habit of overriding inmates free will to make them either murder or not murder other inmates guilty of crimes against children? I believe the inmates commit these acts because they are violent people and feel their actions are justified, but for whatever reason God allows it, just as He allows everything else rather it be good or evil. So it's not God willing, and it's not up to God. It's just humans being humans. QuoteI also believe that God can protect certain individuals He chooses from such acts...for whatever reason. I personally know three men who believed God was protecting them from this violence. They couldn't understand why they weren't attcaked or even harrassed like some others that were in similar situations...They even felt as though they deserved this prison justice. They gave the credit to God and it ultimately led to a reconfirmed faith in Him. Wait, hang on, hang on - so now you're back to saying that God does override inmate's free will by making them attack or not attack other inmates? I'm confused. Which one is it?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #29 May 13, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteReally? Is it your position, then, that God is in the habit of overriding inmates free will to make them either murder or not murder other inmates guilty of crimes against children? I believe the inmates commit these acts because they are violent people and feel their actions are justified, but for whatever reason God allows it, just as He allows everything else rather it be good or evil. So it's not God willing, and it's not up to God. It's just humans being humans. QuoteI also believe that God can protect certain individuals He chooses from such acts...for whatever reason. I personally know three men who believed God was protecting them from this violence. They couldn't understand why they weren't attcaked or even harrassed like some others that were in similar situations...They even felt as though they deserved this prison justice. They gave the credit to God and it ultimately led to a reconfirmed faith in Him. Wait, hang on, hang on - so now you're back to saying that God does override inmate's free will by making them attack or not attack other inmates? I'm confused. Which one is it? You really don't understand? I bolded the important part.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,599 #30 May 13, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteReally? Is it your position, then, that God is in the habit of overriding inmates free will to make them either murder or not murder other inmates guilty of crimes against children? I believe the inmates commit these acts because they are violent people and feel their actions are justified, but for whatever reason God allows it, just as He allows everything else rather it be good or evil. So it's not God willing, and it's not up to God. It's just humans being humans. QuoteI also believe that God can protect certain individuals He chooses from such acts...for whatever reason. I personally know three men who believed God was protecting them from this violence. They couldn't understand why they weren't attcaked or even harrassed like some others that were in similar situations...They even felt as though they deserved this prison justice. They gave the credit to God and it ultimately led to a reconfirmed faith in Him. Wait, hang on, hang on - so now you're back to saying that God does override inmate's free will by making them attack or not attack other inmates? I'm confused. Which one is it? You really don't understand? I bolded the important part. Since you evidently missed it, I bolded the other important bit for you. But do you agree with the part that you bolded? If yes, then you accept that God is in the habit of overriding the free will of prison inmates?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #31 May 13, 2010 Quote But do you agree with the part that you bolded? If yes, then you accept that God is in the habit of overriding the free will of prison inmates? Influence is different from over-ride. Yes I understand he used different words. I agree in part. God and the Holy Spirit influence us, some more than others. If there is true evil in your heart then there will be less influence. That is a very basic explanation, but accurate. What God is to you is what the real question is. Is God our subconcious, our basic human emotional programming? Is God a higher power? That is up to the individual and there is free will to decide where you stand.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,599 #32 May 13, 2010 QuoteI agree in part. Which part? Does god protect certain inmates from being tortured or killed by other inmates or not? Does he stop some inmates from performing certain actions or not? QuoteGod and the Holy Spirit influence us, some more than others. If there is true evil in your heart then there will be less influence. Hahaha. So God can help you be good but only if you're good anyway. That's helpful.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #33 May 13, 2010 It is good. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #34 May 14, 2010 QuoteSo it's not God willing, and it's not up to God. It's just humans being humans. Ya, it's humans being humans, but if God willed for someone to be protected from the humans, I don't necessarily think that He'd have to override their free will to do so...but if He wanted to, I suppose He could. (not that He makes a habit of it.) Furthermore, I don't know how God protects people and I can't predict what a person wills to do. Perhaps this verse is relevant: John 7:30 At this they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his time had not yet come.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,599 #35 May 15, 2010 QuoteYa, it's humans being humans, but if God willed for someone to be protected from the humans, I don't necessarily think that He'd have to override their free will to do so... But your example was of people who weren't harrassed. Not that their potential attackers tried and failed, but that they didn't try at all. Any divine intervention would clearly be in the decision making process of the attackers, a case of God messing with free will. QuotePerhaps this verse is relevant: John 7:30 At this they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his time had not yet come. Is it? They tried to seize him, but couldn't? Is it now your position that God puts up divine forcefields to stop imprisoned child-abusers from being hurt in prison?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #36 May 15, 2010 QuoteAny divine intervention would clearly be in the decision making process of the attackers, a case of God messing with free will. Oh...now you change your words to messing with free will...what ever happened to overriding free will? Perhaps at this point it may be more appropriate to start a new thread about the Sovereignty of God, predestination, Human responsility, fatalistic determinism and/or all the other philosophic/scientific viewpoints on this subject and we could debate it ad nauseam....you'd probably even be able to get in a bunch of cheap shots too! I wouldn't actually want to do this, but perhaps God would mess around with my free will and convince me to jump though your hulla hoops. QuoteIs it? They tried to seize him, but couldn't? perhaps not...But I think the important part was that His time has not come. Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,599 #37 May 15, 2010 QuoteOh...now you change your words to messing with free will...what ever happened to overriding free will? I use it to mean exactly the same thing. Quoteperhaps not...But I think the important part was that His time has not come. His time had not come? How can he have a predetermined time if he's subject to the free will of other humans? QuoteI wouldn't actually want to do this, but perhaps God would mess around with my free will and convince me to jump though your hulla hoops. I picked up on your 'God willing' and 'in God's hands' comments because they've always struck me as the laziest cop-out imaginable, one which taken to its logical conclusion absolves people from any responsibility for their actions. Maybe if you'd actually given any thought to what "God willing" would need to entail you wouldn't now feel like you're having to jump through hoops to answer my straightforward questions.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #38 May 15, 2010 QuoteI prayed that God would comfort and protect him...the next day he was transferred out of the general population, where he shouldn't have been in the first place. As I write this, I am with 20 or so kids on life support (PVS or permanent vegatative state), with no realalistic chance of recovery. I am not trying to be crast, but we have Christian group after Christian group come thru and do all types of praying with 0 results. These kids need to have an end to thier very real daily suffering, but most are complete codes do to thier parents religion. Most people think that children in comas are just peaceful sleeping children, This is not true. Many have constant spasms, seizures, go apnic and have to be revived and the list go on. They suffer on a daily basis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #39 May 19, 2010 QuoteMaybe if you'd actually given any thought to what "God willing" would need to entail you wouldn't now feel like you're having to jump through hoops to answer my straightforward questions. Well then, perhaps you could enlighten me? And while you're at it...since you initially brought it up, could I respectfully ask you to provide a case for free will as you understand it?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
