Gay group discriminates against Bisexuals

[christelsabine 1]

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My conflict is that homosexuals want everyone else to take responsibility for THEIR problem.
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That seems to explain it all. It's your conflict. I simply do not believe that homosexuals ever asked *you* to solve their problems. Which problems might that be?

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All sin, ALL SIN, can be forgiven and lives can change if the sinner repents and seeks Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Behaviors are choices that can and will be changed if the sinner CHOOSES to make the change.

Sin has nothing to do with homosexuality. Even you want to imply exactly that.

I can't believe what nowadays is written here by posters.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[shropshire 0]

Couldn't have put it better myself

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DanG 1]

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Does your behavior cause a problem with your 1) personal health; 2) family relationships; 3) employment; 4) social interaction? If you answered yes to any of the questions, then you have a problem. It is your problem and you must take responsibility for yourself and your problem.

You've stated before that Christians and Christianity are being persucuted by secular society. So, we can put a big check marj next to #4. I've also read posters here (not sure if you agreed or not) state that they felt threatened in the workplace due to their Christianity. So check yes for #3.

Obviously your behavior revolving around the worship of Christ is causing you problems and you are deep in denial about it.

I suggest couceling may help you to move away from these behaviors and choices that are clearly ruining your life.

(If my point is too blunt, by your own methodology, being gay is no more a disorder than being Christian)

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

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So would you characterize a homosexual who is well-integrated into society, happy, productive, and in a lasting relationship with another homosexual as mentally ill? Evil? Confused?

(no, I'm no professional -- just did a little reading and research)

Wendy P.

As a counselor, I never dealt with one of those. They are rare and they would not likely be seeking counseling.

Outside of that, in a macro generic sense, I would characterize such a person as a sinner living a lifestyle contradictory to Scripture. What else can say?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,173]

>As a counselor, I never dealt with one of those. They are rare . . .

They are far less rare than you think. Indeed, you may be working with some of them and not know it. When people say things like "I would characterize such a person as a sinner/deviant/treatable illness" they tend not to discuss their lives within earshot of you.

[RonD1120 62]

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>Refer to my post #20.

Your post #20 seems to indicate that when something causes a problem for someone, then it's a pathology that they have to deal with. Which is fine - but that also defines heterosexuality as a bigger problem than homosexuality, since far, far more people have problems with their heterosexuality than people have problems with their homosexuality.

So how do you, as a counselor, help people deal with their problems with heterosexuality?

I would deal with them the same as any client by asking, why are you here? What do you want to get for yourself? How do you define your problem? What have you tried so far to solve your problem?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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My conflict is that homosexuals want everyone else to take responsibility for THEIR problem.
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That seems to explain it all. It's your conflict. I simply do not believe that homosexuals ever asked *you* to solve their problems. Which problems might that be?

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I've had several homosexual clients. They are usually dealing with anger, anxiety, depression and guilt. All of them wanted out of the lifestyle.

It is the same with substance use disorder. They already know what they need to know about the disorder. What they don't know is, how to live without the dysfunctional behavior. They simply have to learn a new way to live. That change will not happen until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of changing.

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All sin, ALL SIN, can be forgiven and lives can change if the sinner repents and seeks Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Behaviors are choices that can and will be changed if the sinner CHOOSES to make the change.

Sin has nothing to do with homosexuality. Even you want to imply exactly that.

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The sin is fornication. Homosexuality is a dysfunctional lifestyle.

I can't believe what nowadays is written here by posters.

Why? This is a free-for-all arena.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RackJR 0]

I guess you didn't feel like addressing the rest. So we'll talk about your current post.

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My conflict is that homosexuals want everyone else to take responsibility for THEIR problem.

I shudder to think of any homosexual unlucky enough to have you as their counselor. Since you don't really elaborate what you think their problem is, I'll take a guess. Their sexual orientation causes problems within their family, and those relationships suffer. You want to label that as their problem. If their families are not willing to accept them as they are, much like you, then the relationship will suffer. Does the black family cast out it's son for being black? Did your family cast you out for being the color you are?

You see Ron, even though you don't say it, you're still implying that they are choosing this life. They aren't abusing a substance. They're gay. That's just the way they are. If their family will not accept them, and the relationship suffers, what are they to do? They can't stop being gay. I would argue that if their parents/siblings cannot accept them, that is their problem, and not the gay person.

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When I was in graduate school 1971-73, homosexuality was a treatable illness. It has since been removed from the DSM-IV.

When I was in school, the military, college and sometime later the term "queer" was common terminology. When I lived in the counter culture the common term became "fag" or in some cases "flaming faggot." They were accepted and often entertaining.

Jeez, you mean, things change? Wow that's a mind blowing idea. We're not still living in the 70's? Or the 50's? Is slavery still ok? Is prohibition still going on?

You're stuck, huh? Can't seem to come to grips with the fact that homosexuality is not a condition? Doctors took it out of their reference book, but you just can't seem to agree. You know better than the doctors, thanks to a book written by goat herders. Your adherence to that ancient text means that you have to keep calling it a condition. I mean, if it wasn't a condition, that would mean that god actually created these people this way intentionally. Your kind of thinking seems common, a cliche. You've become the old guy who can't get new ideas through his head, and get stuck in the past. You think because something was acceptable in the 70's, you'll just go right on using it no matter what goes on around you. Inflexible and righteous. What a frightening combination.

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When I became a Christian counselor in 1984 the condition took on Scriptural significance as the sin of fornication and an abomination in the eyes of God.

Ahhh, the 2000 year old book, and your honest reminder of the source of your intolerance.

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All sin, ALL SIN, can be forgiven and lives can change if the sinner repents and seeks Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Behaviors are choices that can and will be changed if the sinner CHOOSES to make the change.

That jack-in-the-box analogy was pretty spot on, huh? You just have a couple different quotes you can blurt out. Back on the "choice" for the end of this post huh? If you call it a choice you can call it sin. Tell me again how a homosexuals sexuality is so much different than yours, given your admission that you had nothing to do with choosing it? And if you're going to just regurgitate the same argument, could you at least answer the questions already posed?

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All sin, ALL SIN,

Men wrote the bible. They included those passages about homosexuality because homosexuals were around back then too. They made it a sin punishable by death, in an attempt to make it go away. It didn't work. People your age tried all kinds of things to make them go away. Violence, threats, jail, intimidation, counseling, treatment, discrimination. It hasn't worked. At some time in your life, you obviously accepted that you were no longer going to change. You've thought enough about it, no one can force you to keep an open mind, and now you'll just cling to your dogma and pretend the world has not moved forward without you.

I'm guessing your knee jerk reaction is going to include saying that god wrote the bible. Maybe after that, you can address the end of my last post? Your mental gymnastics required to see the order by god to burn a child in offering as metaphorical. While you're at it, maybe go back and address some of the other issues that you skipped, so it doesn't look like you're avoiding the things you don't have an answer for.

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[RonD1120 62]

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Does your behavior cause a problem with your 1) personal health; 2) family relationships; 3) employment; 4) social interaction? If you answered yes to any of the questions, then you have a problem. It is your problem and you must take responsibility for yourself and your problem.

You've stated before that Christians and Christianity are being persucuted by secular society. So, we can put a big check marj next to #4. I've also read posters here (not sure if you agreed or not) state that they felt threatened in the workplace due to their Christianity. So check yes for #3.

Obviously your behavior revolving around the worship of Christ is causing you problems and you are deep in denial about it.

I suggest couceling may help you to move away from these behaviors and choices that are clearly ruining your life.

(If my point is too blunt, by your own methodology, being gay is no more a disorder than being Christian)

Very clever.

The difference is that I have accepted my "problem." My "problem" increases my functional behavior. It is not dysfunctional for me. My "problem" brought me out of my dysfunctional behavior and brought peace of mind, among other blessings.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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>As a counselor, I never dealt with one of those. They are rare . . .

They are far less rare than you think. Indeed, you may be working with some of them and not know it. When people say things like "I would characterize such a person as a sinner/deviant/treatable illness" they tend not to discuss their lives within earshot of you.

You are confusing co-workers with clients.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,173]

>You are confusing co-workers with clients.

Fair enough. Of course, to a counselor, everyone has a problem.

[RonD1120 62]

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I'm guessing your knee jerk reaction is going to include saying that god wrote the bible. Maybe after that, you can address the end of my last post? Your mental gymnastics required to see the order by god to burn a child in offering as metaphorical. While you're at it, maybe go back and address some of the other issues that you skipped, so it doesn't look like you're avoiding the things you don't have an answer for.

It was not metaphorical it was to perfect Abraham's faith. God already had the way out for Isaac before they ever hiked up Mt. Moriah. Jehovah Jirah, The Lord Who provides.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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>You are confusing co-workers with clients.

Fair enough. Of course, to a counselor, everyone has a problem.

There's truth in that statement.

To an attorney, every accident victim needs a lawyer. To the chiropractor, he needs a spinal adjustment. To the medical doctor, he needs insurance.

To a carpenter every problem can be solved with a hammer, nails and a saw.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[virgin-burner 1]

wasnt it you that just started a thread about the oh-so-poor-christians that are loosing way and are being discriminated against and "asked" for your rights!? give the same to the gays..

oh, apparently, a lot of your christian pastors like little boys, how does that sum up for you!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[shropshire 0]

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To a carpenter every problem can be solved with a hammer, nails and a saw.

Apparently, not for one of them

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kelpdiver 2]

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I assume nothing. Your original post in this thread included your typical use of the word "queer". You and I have already had this talk, but just to refresh your memory, I'll remind you that the dictionary definition of queer, as it refers to homosexuals, notes that it's usage is disparaging and offensive. The fact that you continue to use it, knowing it is offensive and disparaging, sounds hateful. Is it ok to use the word "nigger" to describe black people? No. It is disparaging and offensive, and I think most black people would call that hateful. How about calling Mexicans "spics"? Calling Jews "kikes"? Do you use all these words too?

While I'm sure the dictionary still lists it as disparaging, the truth, at least in California and especially in San Francisco, is that queer is frequently used as "gay." You would have to look at the context to determine offensive intent, just as the tones/words in a sentence using the word "black" could be neutral or derogatory.

[Channman 2]

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I believe that Bi's should be allowed in the Gay softball league just as much as the girls should be allowed to join the boyscouts.

I believe we whities should be able to join the NAACP as well. We could bring a new perspective to their meetings.

[DanG 1]

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The difference is that I have accepted my "problem." My "problem" increases my functional behavior. It is not dysfunctional for me. My "problem" brought me out of my dysfunctional behavior and brought peace of mind, among other blessings.

There are a lot of gay people who have the same feelings toward their sexuality. The ones I've met who are closeted are not so because of an internal conflict, but for fear of how they will be accepted in society. In short, society is the one with a gay "problem", not gay people themselves.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

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The difference is that I have accepted my "problem." My "problem" increases my functional behavior. It is not dysfunctional for me. My "problem" brought me out of my dysfunctional behavior and brought peace of mind, among other blessings.

There are a lot of gay people who have the same feelings toward their sexuality. The ones I've met who are closeted are not so because of an internal conflict, but for fear of how they will be accepted in society. In short, society is the one with a gay "problem", not gay people themselves.

That is a decent example of projection. Refusing to accept personal responsibility for a problem and projecting the cause outward.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RackJR 0]

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While I'm sure the dictionary still lists it as disparaging, the truth, at least in California and especially in San Francisco, is that queer is frequently used as "gay." You would have to look at the context to determine offensive intent, just as the tones/words in a sentence using the word "black" could be neutral or derogatory.

No problem there. You have only to read a few of his posts, or even the one he started with in this thread, to get his context. While claiming that he uses the term because he's not willing to be PC, that is completely disingenuous. His usage is derogatory. Read a few of his posts. Seething with intolerance and hatred.

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[Shotgun 1]

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That is a decent example of projection. Refusing to accept personal responsibility for a problem and projecting the cause outward.

Sort of like your "Christophobia" thread.

[DanG 1]

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That is a decent example of projection. Refusing to accept personal responsibility for a problem and projecting the cause outward.

Let's stretch our metaphor legs, shall we?

Everytime this guy named Bob walks out his front door, the peope on the block throw rocks at him. He always had bruises, cuts, scrapes, etc. He goes to see Dr. Ron, who says with great authority, "Well, Bob, clearly your behavior of choosing to walk out your front door is your problem. If you just choose to stay inside, all your problems will be solved."

In your world, the bumps and bruises are the problem. In actuality, the problem is the people outside, who can't just let Bob live his life in peace.

- Dan G

[Coreece 190]

softbal IS gay...doesn't matter what you are.

everytime I see a softball game i say...look it all the gay guys playing softbal...

I only played softball once...wasn't for me.

I have no problem slapping any queer on his ass as long as he's man enough to play some hardball...I'd probably even kiss him if he wins us a championship.

EDIT
Hell, I'd kiss anybody just for trying...where are all the ball players at?

I mean shiz, I have to throw a ball at a damn wall for heavens sake!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[RonD1120 62]

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That is a decent example of projection. Refusing to accept personal responsibility for a problem and projecting the cause outward.

Sort of like your "Christophobia" thread.

Not quite, the Christophobia article was written by a Christian for Christian readers. The message was for Christians to take responsibility for themselves.

I posted the article here for Christian skydivers to be aware and be encouraged.

Were the negative responses to me and my post a problem for DZ.com, the moderators, the pagans in SC? Or, was the problem my responsibility based on my behavior choice to post the article in a known hostile environment?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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That is a decent example of projection. Refusing to accept personal responsibility for a problem and projecting the cause outward.

Let's stretch our metaphor legs, shall we?

Everytime this guy named Bob walks out his front door, the peope on the block throw rocks at him. He always had bruises, cuts, scrapes, etc. He goes to see Dr. Ron, who says with great authority, "Well, Bob, clearly your behavior of choosing to walk out your front door is your problem. If you just choose to stay inside, all your problems will be solved."

In your world, the bumps and bruises are the problem. In actuality, the problem is the people outside, who can't just let Bob live his life in peace.

I refer you to my posts #20 and #49.

You can blame others and be a victim or, accept personal responsibility and seek a solution. As John Wayne is quoted as saying, "Life is tough. It is a whole lot tougher if you are stupid."

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.