GM pays back government loans from US, Canada

[Lucky... 0]

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9F7EC3O2.htm

Yea, that was a bad idea and the US / Canadian govs still own 61% and 12% respectively. All those jobs saved, an industry paramount to both counties; what a waste to have saved them. To think of the tax cuts that could have gone to the rich and subsequent jobs that the very rich would have created. Is anyone dumb enough to believe the rich would have gone and reinvested in new ventures in a wholesale fashion in these times if the gov gave them tax cut gifts?

So GM still owes 53M to the US/Canadian gov, so now come the trolls to say this payoff is too little, hence meaningless. To those I would say that I wish McHoover was elected and we could see what tax cuts, my frieds looks like. Hell, the intelligent set can just read history bokks, but we had teh chance to live thru to-be historic times and we blew it by electing Obama; our grandkids will be ashamed.

The banks and GM have been paying back, will all be recovered? Highly doubtful, but these measures saved us. It's obvious now and history will look back on the GWB bank bailout and Obama stimulus as brilliant moves. Of course I would rather have socialized teh banks, but since that would never happen, we had to avoid letting them fail.

[billvon 3,119]

> All those jobs saved . . . .

So giving executives at GM more money = jobs saved.

>To think of the tax cuts that could have gone to the rich . . .

So giving executives more money = no jobs saved.

Make up your mind, man!

[Lucky... 0]

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> All those jobs saved . . . .

So giving executives at GM more money = jobs saved.

>To think of the tax cuts that could have gone to the rich . . .

So giving executives more money = no jobs saved.

Make up your mind, man!

Are you saying that GM executives received pay increases after the bailout/loans? Furthermore, regardless of that, these were loans that were just partially paid back and the rest is subject to stock ownership, so the US Gov invested, rather than being a typical fascist Republican and just giving the rich money in the hopes they would invest.

[chuteless 1]

After watching the news last evening, I got to wondering,

Where did GM get the money to pay that vast sum back so soon. They closed dealerships everywhere, and haven't been selling very many new cars...so where did these billions come from?

Considering the date when they were given the money from the two governments, it hasnt been a year yet, so how did they manage to come uop with the money ...BILLIONS of dollars. They sure didnt borrow it from me.

[idrankwhat 0]

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After watching the news last evening, I got to wondering,

Where did GM get the money to pay that vast sum back so soon. They closed dealerships everywhere, and haven't been selling very many new cars...so where did these billions come from?

Considering the date when they were given the money from the two governments, it hasnt been a year yet, so how did they manage to come uop with the money ...BILLIONS of dollars. They sure didnt borrow it from me.

They probably put their money on Apple (AAPL) or Netflix (NFLX). Each are up about 300% since Jan 2009.

[Southern_Man 0]

They gave back part of the loans they got.

They also saved a bundle by going into bankruptcy and screwing over their other creditors with U.S. Government assistance.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Gawain 0]

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http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9F7EC3O2.htm

Yea, that was a bad idea and the US / Canadian govs still own 61% and 12% respectively. All those jobs saved, an industry paramount to both counties; what a waste to have saved them. To think of the tax cuts that could have gone to the rich and subsequent jobs that the very rich would have created. Is anyone dumb enough to believe the rich would have gone and reinvested in new ventures in a wholesale fashion in these times if the gov gave them tax cut gifts?

So GM still owes 53M 56B to the US/Canadian gov, so now come the trolls to say this payoff is too little, hence meaningless. To those I would say that I wish McHoover was elected and we could see what tax cuts, my frieds looks like. Hell, the intelligent set can just read history bokks, but we had teh chance to live thru to-be historic times and we blew it by electing Obama; our grandkids will be ashamed.

The banks and GM have been paying back, will all be recovered? Highly doubtful, but these measures saved us. It's obvious now and history will look back on the GWB bank bailout and Obama stimulus as brilliant moves. Of course I would rather have socialized teh banks, but since that would never happen, we had to avoid letting them fail.

First item: Fixed it for you.

Second item: This whole charade was sold as "the government will make money off it". If we don't do this, employment will...yada yada. "The bailout is working better than we could imagine!"

Between TARP, Omnibus, Stimulus, Stimulus II (aka "Jobs Bill"), we've pushed spending up, before interest, before healthcare bill, about $2.2 Trillion dollars in the span of less than a year. Results are: TARP money that has been repaid is not going to the debt as written into the law. Three huge wards of the state. Job losses at a horrendous rate. Budget deficits that have been tripled...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[idrankwhat 0]

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Between TARP, Omnibus, Stimulus, Stimulus II (aka "Jobs Bill"), we've pushed spending up, before interest, before healthcare bill, about $2.2 Trillion dollars in the span of less than a year. Results are: TARP money that has been repaid is not going to the debt as written into the law. Three huge wards of the state. Job losses at a horrendous rate. Budget deficits that have been tripled...

And we are recovering nicely from a near complete economic collapse/borderline depression and our banking and auto industries and the millions of jobs that depend on them are for the most part still intact. Admittedly it's very easy to tally up what we have spent but it's very difficult to quantify what we have saved. In a purely capitalist system the United States would be in complete financial and economic ruin.
And yes, absolutely, the debt we have now completely sucks. But when you look at the alternative it's pretty obvious that it could have been a whole lot worse. And until we're honest with ourselves as to how we got into this situation we're destined for a repeat performance, or worse.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I don't think people can fathom what a completely wiped out financial system would mean. I certainly can't, but I do know it would mean the end of pretty much all foreign investment in the US.

The greenback would be completely worthless, plus with the financial system gone, almost every body's savings and wealth would have evaporated.

Without access to capital, industry in the US would have ground to a halt. Without access to money, the military machine would have come to a halt. Plus, how many soldiers would continue fighting when pay cheques stopped coming, or when supplies can no longer be flown to areas of operation?

The list goes on and on.....

[idrankwhat 0]

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I don't think people can fathom what a completely wiped out financial system would mean.........

I agree. But I do have an idea as to how pissed off they would be at the government for allowing it to happen. The loudest critics of the bailout would be the loudest critics of the government's failure to contain the collapse.

[Gawain 0]

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I don't think people can fathom what a completely wiped out financial system would mean.........

I agree. But I do have an idea as to how pissed off they would be at the government for allowing it to happen. The loudest critics of the bailout would be the loudest critics of the government's failure to contain the collapse.

The direct action that the government took was the worst of the two crappy options. Again, the bailout was about power, exerting control, and takeover.

Healthcare legislation is a parallel example:

Large corporations with millions of active employees, and many-millions of retirees on their books were informing law makers of the immediate "fallout" that would happen.

What did happen? Every major company in the country had to report write downs from the legislation. Why? Not because they lost the money. It had nothing to do with that. It had to do with the rules on the books that require companies to report daily on real-time values in their asset holdings, tax write-offs, deferred revenues, et al.

Politically speaking, if lawmakers wanted to avoid such gaffes, they would have thought through the measures (proof that they didn't read it).

The government could have taken much broader action without expenditures of trillions. "I'm with the government and I'm here to help." are the last words you want to hear when fixing a problem. Don't believe it? Look at Michigan, California, Massachusetts...you can't make this crap up. Government produces nothing. When you try to introduce government into an economy that lives and breathes based on what it produces....figure out the rest.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,150]

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Government produces nothing. When you try to introduce government into an economy that lives and breathes based on what it produces....figure out the rest.

Show me any nation with anarchic government that is as prosperous as the western nations with well regulated governments.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,119]

>The direct action that the government took was the worst of the two crappy options.

So you oppose tax cuts, then?

[airdvr 210]

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I don't think people can fathom what a completely wiped out financial system would mean. I certainly can't, but I do know it would mean the end of pretty much all foreign investment in the US.

The greenback would be completely worthless, plus with the financial system gone, almost every body's savings and wealth would have evaporated.

Without access to capital, industry in the US would have ground to a halt. Without access to money, the military machine would have come to a halt. Plus, how many soldiers would continue fighting when pay cheques stopped coming, or when supplies can no longer be flown to areas of operation?

The list goes on and on.....

We just prolonged the agony by putting it on the credit card. It will come back to bite us.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[idrankwhat 0]

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The direct action that the government took was the worst of the two crappy options.

Do you think that our government should have done nothing? Do you disagree with all of the bailouts or only some? If you're a pure capitalist then I applaud your conviction, however you have to recognize the consequences of a failed system. I don't know many, actually any people who would be willing to let the US economy collapse because "hey, win some, lose some".

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.....Government produces nothing. When you try to introduce government into an economy that lives and breathes based on what it produces....figure out the rest.

Our economy was on the verge of collapse, and dragging down other world economies, and it had little to do with any tangible product. What our economy has been "producing" is "money" out of thin air via very creative financial instruments based on purchased credit ratings and heavy leveraging. I heard it referred to as our "casino economy" the other day and I thought that summed it up pretty well.
I WISH we were primarily a production based economy. Pursuing that end through green energy initiatives has promise however it is not something that's going to happen overnight. You can make a trillion dollars in the casino economy overnight but it's unsustainable. Building a sustainable system is going to take time. People complain about how slowly the recovery is going but my take is that the only way we'd recover any faster is to revert to the old ways that got us into trouble in the first place.

[idrankwhat 0]

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We just prolonged the agony by putting it on the credit card. It will come back to bite us.

Probably. But now we have a chance to change our future instead of wallow in our failed past.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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We just prolonged the agony by putting it on the credit card. It will come back to bite us.

Not to the extent a completely failed system would have hurt.

At some point Americans will have to face te fact that taxes will have to be raised. I pity the fool (yes I used to love the A Team), who is going to have to stand up and do that.

[Gawain 0]

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>The direct action that the government took was the worst of the two crappy options.

So you oppose tax cuts, then?

Say again? Tax increases signed into law.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

Also, back to Lucky's original post, GM not only is still in the hole to the taxpayer through the equity stake ($56B), but the "loan" that was paid back "in full" was funded by...taxpayer dollars...


http://radioviceonline.com/gm-repays-loan-to-us-actually-not-really/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/top-republican-questions-gm-administration-over-tarp-funds-used-to-pay-back-loans.html

It's not even borrowing from Peter to pay Paul...it's taking from Paul to pay Paul...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rushmc 23]

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Also, back to Lucky's original post, GM not only is still in the hole to the taxpayer through the equity stake ($56B), but the "loan" that was paid back "in full" was funded by...taxpayer dollars...


http://radioviceonline.com/gm-repays-loan-to-us-actually-not-really/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/top-republican-questions-gm-administration-over-tarp-funds-used-to-pay-back-loans.html

It's not even borrowing from Peter to pay Paul...it's taking from Paul to pay Paul...

Best way to set up handing more of the company over to the unions! Gotta cover those unfunded unions retirement programs somehow

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Where did GM get the money to pay that vast sum back so soon. They closed dealerships everywhere, and haven't been selling very many new cars...so where did these billions come from?

GM greatly benefited from Toyota's woes (both self inflicted and the political ones from DC) in this past quarter.

[Bolas 5]

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In a purely capitalist system the United States would be in complete financial and economic ruin.

In a purely capitalist system we'd have never got this far as there'd be no such thing as "too big to fail."

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,119]

>In a purely capitalist system we'd have never got this far as there'd be
>no such thing as "too big to fail."

Google "Standard Oil."

A purely capitalist company attempts to take over every aspect of society it can. For example, if it can buy all means of shipping (roads, rail lines, airspace) and deny all its competitors the means to ship their product, they will do so and drive all competition out of business. They will then be able to charge whatever the market will bear, without fear of competition.

Let this proceed unchecked, and you'd have one company owning everything in the US. It would not only be too big to fail; its failure would equate to the failure of the USA.

[Bolas 5]

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>In a purely capitalist system we'd have never got this far as there'd be
>no such thing as "too big to fail."

Google "Standard Oil."

A purely capitalist company attempts to take over every aspect of society it can. For example, if it can buy all means of shipping (roads, rail lines, airspace) and deny all its competitors the means to ship their product, they will do so and drive all competition out of business. They will then be able to charge whatever the market will bear, without fear of competition.

Let this proceed unchecked, and you'd have one company owning everything in the US. It would not only be too big to fail; its failure would equate to the failure of the USA.

If a company can do that by legal means, without gov't assistance, these days I say more power to them.

Standard Oil, even without gov't regulations would never be as powerful today.

Besides, these days, big companies really don't compete much with each other, they sorta just divide and conquer.

One of the reasons we're in the situation we are with all of these big companies is the gov't has bailed them out repeatedly. They've learned they can do incredibly risky stuff to try and make more money and even if it pays off, just look like they are broke and the gov't gives them more.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.