Tea Party philosophy

[Bolas 5]

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So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and unsustainable system"?

I'd forgo it as well but only on the explicit condition that future budgets were limited to a set percentage of the previous years tax income with the remainder going to pay down the debt.

This is the same reason why I don't support tax increases right now as until some level of fiscal responsibilty is shown any increases would just be used to justify more new programs.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,173]

>So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've
>taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare
> benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and
>unsustainable system"?

Libertarians probably come closest to that (although they will likely change their platform a bit when they enter the real world of politics.)

[masterblaster72 0]

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As long as Americans are glued to the television and not doing their homework by reading and researching to discern bullshit from reality

an ironic statement if you really believe that movement is about establishing a new political party, BTW

I have to admit my ignorance on the subject because I just hear about the Tea Party and haven't read much about them. So to further your point, it's even more ironic given that I'm the one saying that people need to do more research. The most I've read about the Tea Party is on these forums, and I assumed that they're a political "party" from that word in their name.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[masterblaster72 0]

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So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and unsustainable system"?

If you point it out to me, I will throw my support behind them tomorrow. I stopped expecting to see any of that money when I was 25. I'm fine with committing to this sacrifice now to stop throwing good money after bad.

The populace should have learned after Katrina that if you are expecting to be taken care of by the US government you better have a plan b.

Your doses of common sense are far too infrequent here my friend.

BTW, I'll always remember you as one of my teachers in this sport for the lessons you gave me at Crosskeys a while back. Thanks for your patience with me in my early days years ago...hope all is well with you these days.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[kallend 2,230]

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So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and unsustainable system"?

As simple as that may seem to a younger person, it's not going to go over very well with the huge Boomer generation who have been paying in for 40 years already.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tr027 0]

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So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and unsustainable system"?

As simple as that may seem to a younger person, it's not going to go over very well with the huge Boomer generation who have been paying in for 40 years already.

Exactly.. the gov't addicts people to state money like any other drug to ensure its continued death grip over us. And currently there are more people addicted to state money than not, so as soon as you propose less gov't how popular do you reckon that idea will be?. Here's a good show on it, kinda long but gets good around 11:00.
http://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot#p/u/18/2cMIFZ2lUwk

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[kallend 2,230]

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So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and unsustainable system"?

As simple as that may seem to a younger person, it's not going to go over very well with the huge Boomer generation who have been paying in for 40 years already.

Exactly.. the gov't addicts people to state money like any other drug to ensure its continued death grip over us. And currently there are more people addicted to state money than not, so as soon as you propose less gov't how popular do you reckon that idea will be?. Here's a good show on it, kinda long but gets good around 11:00.
http://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot#p/u/18/2cMIFZ2lUwk

It's not going to go over very well with anyone my age, and most of us have not taken any state money so you can't claim we're "addicted". We have, however, been paying SS and Medicaid taxes for decades. I can assure you that my generation has no intention of saying "OK, we paid and paid for 40 years but it's OK, just keep the money, we'll figure something out".

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Southern_Man 0]

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It's not going to go over very well with anyone my age, and most of us have not taken any state money so you can't claim we're "addicted". We have, however, been paying SS and Medicaid taxes for decades. I can assure you that my generation has no intention of saying "OK, we paid and paid for 40 years but it's OK, just keep the money, we'll figure something out".

Your money was spent to take care of other people.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kallend 2,230]

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It's not going to go over very well with anyone my age, and most of us have not taken any state money so you can't claim we're "addicted". We have, however, been paying SS and Medicaid taxes for decades. I can assure you that my generation has no intention of saying "OK, we paid and paid for 40 years but it's OK, just keep the money, we'll figure something out".

Your money was spent to take care of other people.

I know how the system works. It's called a social contract and the boomer generation has fulfilled its part of it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jdfreefly 1]

They are the ones bitching the loudest about government waste and taxes.

FINE! Continue to take from me until they all die out but come up with a plan to phase out the support for the next generation(s). Effectively each generation pays a smaller and smaller price to support those on SS and each generation gets a smaller and smaller payout...and my generation can continue to support and pay for the unrealistic and self absorbed baby boomers.

Most of the teabaggers are fully out to fucking lunch, one party under the media created by the media and for the media...but some of them are good hardworking honest (even intelligent) people who want to be able to keep the fruits of their labor.

God damnit, wholly fuck, hallelujah...I need a fucking beer.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[rehmwa 2]

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I know how the system works. It's called a social contract and the boomer generation has fulfilled its part of it.

to quote a wise man - "that's not your money" once the government takes it

by your own words, if the gov decides to suddenly delete SS and fund something else - say some jobs programs - you should be fine with that

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,230]

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I know how the system works. It's called a social contract and the boomer generation has fulfilled its part of it.

to quote a wise man - "that's not your money" once the government takes it

by your own words, if the gov decides to suddenly delete SS and fund something else - say some jobs programs - you should be fine with that

So you believe in reneging on contracts. We're talking about taxes raised for a very specific purpose, stated in advance, not general taxation. Rather like aviation taxes going into the trust fund to support airports and ATC.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[riddler 0]

Here's a fun video, which shows exactly what the Tea Partiers stand for, which is apparently, nothing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyFeFhUTmI&feature=player_embedded#!

If anyone's interested in the reference to Obama banning fishing, here's a great example of how certain parties have outright lied to promote their political agendas:

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/03/11/11greenwire-obama-admin-jumps-to-squelch-rumors-of-us-fish-65275.html

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[billvon 3,173]

A Tea Party prayer circulating on Facebook:

"Dear Lord, this year you took my favorite actor, Patrick Swayzie. You took my favorite actress, Farah Fawcett. You took my favorite singer, Michael Jackson. I just wanted to let you know, my favorite president is Barack Obama. Amen."

[rehmwa 2]

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I know how the system works. It's called a social contract and the boomer generation has fulfilled its part of it.

to quote a wise man - "that's not your money" once the government takes it

by your own words, if the gov decides to suddenly delete SS and fund something else - say some jobs programs - you should be fine with that

So you believe in reneging on contracts. We're talking about taxes raised for a very specific purpose, stated in advance, not general taxation. Rather like aviation taxes going into the trust fund to support airports and ATC.

I'm not talking about MY beliefs. Follow the quote to its source. You are the one that thinks the government owns all the resources and cash to do whatever they feel like and that anything that remains in a private citizens wallet is by the fortunate grace of your leaders.

You get what you voted for.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,230]

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I know how the system works. It's called a social contract and the boomer generation has fulfilled its part of it.

to quote a wise man - "that's not your money" once the government takes it

by your own words, if the gov decides to suddenly delete SS and fund something else - say some jobs programs - you should be fine with that

So you believe in reneging on contracts. We're talking about taxes raised for a very specific purpose, stated in advance, not general taxation. Rather like aviation taxes going into the trust fund to support airports and ATC.

I'm not talking about MY beliefs. Follow the quote to its source. You are the one that thinks the government owns all the resources and cash to do whatever they feel like and that anything that remains in a private citizens wallet is by the fortunate grace of your leaders.

Nope. That would only be with respect to general taxation (like income tax, capital gains, etc.). Some taxes are designated for very specific purposes, such as the tax on aviation fuels.

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You get what you voted for.

I doubt that very much.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 210]

While you're all having fun bashing the Tea Party let's let Bertha step it up a notch.

ACORN CEO: Tea Parties a 'Bowel Movement,' Future Will Be Worse Than Segregation
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/22/acorn-ceo-socialists-persecution-dwarf-segregation-tea-parties-racist/

Nice

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rehmwa 2]

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Some taxes are designated for very specific purposes, such as the tax on aviation fuels.

a complete joke - a shell game

in the end, those "specific purposes" are not a means to fund special purposes, maybe that's the story you've been fed, but those are gambits to effect additional tax collection on targetted markets above and beyond normal collections - the biggest joke is when the taxing and the spending of "special projects" are intended for the purpose of 'effecting behavior change' or some other nonsense. It's all just another trough they create

it's not like the dollars are a different shade of green or will burst into flame if used elsewhere

I'd like to refer you to the mockery concept of the SS "lockbox" for evidence.....



people love this when dollars get moved from something they hate to something they like - but they get outraged when it happens the other way around

this is the government you trust and worship and want to give all your money to since they are smarter at spending it than all of us

Edit: just put it ALL in a big general fund - prioritize ALL the spending from top to bottom - fund the top, then the next, then the next, and when the money runs out - everything left over on the bottom of the list get canceled.

Everything is important to someone, but the money supply isn't infinite. Hopefully your 'contract' is near the top.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skybytch 273]

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Continue to take from me until they all die out but come up with a plan to phase out the support for the next generation(s). Effectively each generation pays a smaller and smaller price to support those on SS and each generation gets a smaller and smaller payout...and my generation can continue to support and pay for the unrealistic and self absorbed baby boomers.

The problem with that is that it removes the safety net for old people. Social Security is a retirement plan that you or I can't fuck up. The government can, does and will continue to fuck it up, yes, but I can't - because I can't get to and spend the money that is supposedly going to be mine again someday.

How many people out there have raided their retirement funds for one reason or another? How many have lost big chunks of their retirement money that was invested in stocks and/or real estate in the past few years? The first case is the person's own fault, but the second is beyond their control. And that's the problem with not having Social Security there as a safety net - someone who did everything right could still end up depending on their kids for their can of cat food for dinner.

Instead of dumping the whole thing, we could stop giving huge breaks to those who make the big bucks. There is a certain income level above which you don't have to pay additional SS taxes - ie someone who makes $1 million a year pays the same dollar amount in SS tax as someone who makes $10 million.

We could also open the borders. If there aren't enough people paying into the system, doesn't it make sense to bring in immigrants who generally have more kids than do second, third, fourth, etc generation citizens? More immigrants having more kids would mean more people paying into the system.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Instead of dumping the whole thing, we could stop giving huge breaks to those who make the big bucks. There is a certain income level above which you don't have to pay additional SS taxes - ie someone who makes $1 million a year pays the same dollar amount in SS tax as someone who makes $10 million.

It's a limit on contributions and eventual benefits not a break.

Social Security contributions are limited to $13243.20 the same way that 401k contributions are $16,500 at age 49 and below and $22,000 for the 50+ crowd.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How many have lost big chunks of their retirement money that was invested in stocks and/or real estate in the past few years? The first case is the person's own fault, but the second is beyond their control.

Don't agree, those people had other options than the investments they made. There are no guarantees.

[jdfreefly 1]

First off, it's supposed to be a government of the people, therefor, we are the government, therefor we can fuck it up and therefor...we are fucking it up.

Second, I don't want the government to take care of me and provide me a "safety net". Every time they say they will it turns into a shell game where a few people get taken care of but most of us take it in the rear and it promotes a lack of accountability in the actions of the populace.

Third, I'm all for opening the borders, if there is a job you want to do and its here in the us have at it, but the last thing some poor immigrant trying to get their feet under them in a new country needs is the government taking 25% of their pay.

Fourth, if you fix the problem by increasing the number of people paying for the boomers you have not really fixed the problem, you've just put it off for a few more years and increased the size for the day the bill comes due.

And finally, the rich don't get a tax break on social security, it's a cap on benefits and since the whole theory of the system is that you are supposed to get out what you pay in and your payments are adjusted based on how much you contribute, do you want to raise the caps on what we pay those that put in the most money too? Besides, I'm never going to be behind the attitude of "let the rich pay for it" when it's something I don't think we should be paying for in the first place.

No flames, just my thoughts.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[rehmwa 2]

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The problem with that is that it removes the safety net for old people. Social Security is a retirement plan that you or I can't fuck up.

that's just great -

1 - you don't have as much to save for retirement, so it's more likely you do mess it up

2 - But that's ok, because when you are eating cat food, at least you can blame the government - hey, they messed up their part too, but at least it wasn't your fault


your philosophy isn't about a 'safety net', it's about having a ready made scapegoat

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,173]

>2 - But that's ok, because when you are eating cat food, at least you can blame the government

Honestly I'd rather have retirees eating "cat food" (or more accurately cornflakes) than dying in the streets. (Which is all Social Security should do.)

[rehmwa 2]

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>2 - But that's ok, because when you are eating cat food, at least you can blame the government

Honestly I'd rather have retirees eating "cat food" (or more accurately cornflakes) than dying in the streets. (Which is all Social Security should do.)

we've been down this before -

establish a fleet of roving refrigerator collection trucks - use the corpses to feed the living at the equivalent price of cat food - use the money to fund the fleet

two problems solved - street cleanup, and starvation of the elderly

it's better than more government programs - all of which is counting on people dying young to be able to fund it at less of a dramatic loss

as far as 'corn flakes', I'd rather the people have healthy 'street meat' instead of unhealthy carbs in the form of cereal. And, we don't need to further bloat the bank accounts of those greedy fat cats at General Mills and Kellogg.

The cereal industry needs to be under gov control asap - it's an emergency. Don't read the bill, no time....just sign it!!!

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants