Tea Party philosophy

[billvon 3,080]

Summed up succinctly in this passage from a NYT article:

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When talking about the Tea Party movement, the largest number of respondents said that the movement’s goal should be reducing the size of government, more than cutting the budget deficit or lowering taxes.

And nearly three-quarters of those who favor smaller government said they would prefer it even if it meant spending on domestic programs would be cut.

But in follow-up interviews, Tea Party supporters said they did not want to cut Medicare or Social Security — the biggest domestic programs, suggesting instead a focus on “waste.”

Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits.

Others could not explain the contradiction.

“That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.”
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The solution to this conundrum is obvious - teabagger leaders should discourage such dangerous activities as thinking, and instead concentrate on outrage, anger and vitriol. Throwing bricks through windows is always preferable to gaining perspective.

[kallend 2,112]

Well, they have to distinguish between government waste, which is money spent on things that don't benefit them**, and necessary government spending, which is money spent on things that do benefit them.

** the benefit needs to be very obvious or they don't even realize it's there.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bolas 5]

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The solution to this conundrum is obvious - teabagger leaders should discourage such dangerous activities as thinking, and instead concentrate on outrage, anger and vitriol. Throwing bricks through windows is always preferable to gaining perspective.

So they should become their own religion?

We could call them Teabaptists...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

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** the benefit needs to be very obvious or they don't even realize it's there.

And by that you mean, MORE obvious than the check that comes in the mail with a picture of the Statue of Liberty, the words "United States Treasury", "Social Security" and "pay to the order of."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[base428 1]

I pay into Medicare and SS all my life, but wanting to collect from it means I can't protest against big government? Doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't the "teabaggers" (your sexual slang) really concerned with out of control earmarks, constitutionally limited government, free markets, health care that doesn't tax everyone, etc.?

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[wmw999 2,550]

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I pay into Medicare and SS all my life

Yep. At the rate of 6.2% for SS and 1.45% for Medicare. But, more and more, people are exceedingly likely to collect more than that in SS benefits, even if they were to bank the money themselves and invest it wisely.

It's actually a pretty good value as far as I can tell. Because with SS, you're not going to have a downturn in the market change what you'll get. It's the upturn in people's longevity that's hurting us -- SS kind of counts on people to die earlier than they are any more.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 2,112]

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I pay into Medicare and SS all my life, but wanting to collect from it means I can't protest against big government? Doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't the "teabaggers" (your sexual slang) really concerned with out of control earmarks, constitutionally limited government, free markets, health care that doesn't tax everyone, etc.?

Curious, isn't it, that Sarah Palin, currently Queen of the Tea Party, was Queen of the Earmarks just a few short years ago.

wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/09/03/palin-earmarks/

As mentioned previously, it's government waste if it benefits someone else, but good use of taxpayer money if it benefits a Tea Partyist.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NewGuy2005 53]

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***.... It's the upturn in people's longevity that's hurting us -- SS kind of counts on people to die earlier than they are any more.

Wendy P.

Correct, but what is hurting us even more is the demographic shift that has taken place since S.S. was enacted: There are a lot fewer young people, now, to pay for all of the old people.

[skybytch 273]

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I pay into Medicare and SS all my life, but wanting to collect from it means I can't protest against big government? Doesn't make sense to me.

Protest against big government all you'd like. But expect to be considered hypocritical if you are loudly against "government run health care" while enjoying the benefits of Medicare and if you are loudly for "free markets" and "no government regulation" while enjoying the benefits of government regulations that protect your rights as an employee and keep corporations from raising ridiculously the prices you have to pay for your basic needs (think Enron and California).

I put what I thought was an interesting look at this on my blog. I'd paste it here but it's pretty long.

[billvon 3,080]

>Aren't the "teabaggers" (your sexual slang) . . .

Seems to be the label many people choose to go by - see below. Check out the 'teabag the White House' shirt, available on several conservative websites. Seems like a lot of people are pushing for teabagging.

If you want to claim they are referring to a sexual act, knock yourself out; but I don't think the guy with the sign that says "teabag the White House" means that he wants you to put your balls in anyone's mouth.

>. . .really concerned with out of control earmarks, constitutionally limited
>government, free markets, health care that doesn't tax everyone, etc.?

Yes, that's what they claim. It is just somewhat ironic that these people object strenuously to taxpayer-funded healthcare while demanding their taxpayer-funded healthcare.

(This is nothing new. The cry of "CUT SPENDING! Except for the free stuff I want!" has been here since before we had income taxes.)

[StreetScooby 5]

I see the issue as this - who is going to pay for this? Our various levels of government _cannot_ keep spending money they don't have. Likewise, they can't keep taking money from those they "deem" to have money.

We are all engines of karma

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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...This is nothing new. The cry of "CUT SPENDING! Except for the free stuff I want!" has been here since before we had income taxes...

Kind of like "THROW ALL THOSE WASHINGTON BUMS OUT!! Except for my congressman because he gets stuff for my district."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[airdvr 210]

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The nationwide telephone poll was conducted April 5-12 with 1,580 adults. For the purposes of analysis, Tea Party supporters were oversampled, for a total of 881, and then weighted back to their proper proportion in the poll. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points for both all adults and Tea Party supporters, and it is higher for subgroups.

I'm not understanding. They called a bunch of people and asked if they supported the tea party? That's a very different demographic than asking these questions at a rally or something.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Lucky... 0]

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I pay into Medicare and SS all my life, but wanting to collect from it means I can't protest against big government? Doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't the "teabaggers" (your sexual slang) really concerned with out of control earmarks, constitutionally limited government, free markets, health care that doesn't tax everyone, etc.?

There's a semi-tea bagger at work, he has his own business and I give him shit for accepting Medicare while denouncing Socialism. If you accept it, it is socialism, it's hard to denounce it while you grab it w/o being a hypocrite.

[Lucky... 0]

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Likewise, they can't keep taking money from those they "deem" to have money.

Why, they are taking it at a lower rate than they have most of the time since WWI, so what's the 'sky is falling' claim about?

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Our various levels of government _cannot_ keep spending money they don't have.

Unless it's on the military or other neato things.

[kallend 2,112]

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I see the issue as this - who is going to pay for this? Our various levels of government _cannot_ keep spending money they don't have. Likewise, they can't keep taking money from those they "deem" to have money.

On the whole the wealthy do have money, and the poor don't.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lucky... 0]

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I see the issue as this - who is going to pay for this? Our various levels of government _cannot_ keep spending money they don't have. Likewise, they can't keep taking money from those they "deem" to have money.

On the whole the wealthy do have money, and the poor don't.

The top 20% hold 93% of all cash; WTF do you mean the poor have no money?

[riddler 0]

Far be it from me to defend the Tea Partiers. They would get further if they had a clear, common goal, other than just being angry at the government.

But I don't see this argument about social security as a contradiction. Social Security happens to be the most financially efficient government program in existence, with less than 1% of it's total budget spent on administrative costs. That statistic is helped considerably by the size of the program, but still, name any other government program with a smaller percentage of administrative costs.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[rehmwa 2]

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he has his own business and I give him shit for accepting Medicare while denouncing Socialism. If you accept it, it is socialism, it's hard to denounce it while you grab it w/o being a hypocrite.

I see that. Much like those that demand higher taxes all pay a lot extra to the government every year at tax time. Those that don't are just as hypocritical as your friend.

good point - how much more do you write your check this year than the forms said you owed? and extra 10% of your income? 20%?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,112]

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he has his own business and I give him shit for accepting Medicare while denouncing Socialism. If you accept it, it is socialism, it's hard to denounce it while you grab it w/o being a hypocrite.

I see that. Much like those that demand higher taxes all pay a lot extra to the government every year at tax time. Those that don't are just as hypocritical as your friend.

good point - how much more do you write your check this year than the forms said you owed? and extra 10% of your income? 20%?

Sounds good, but it is, of course, a silly non sequitur fallacy.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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he has his own business and I give him shit for accepting Medicare while denouncing Socialism. If you accept it, it is socialism, it's hard to denounce it while you grab it w/o being a hypocrite.

I see that. Much like those that demand higher taxes all pay a lot extra to the government every year at tax time. Those that don't are just as hypocritical as your friend.

good point - how much more do you write your check this year than the forms said you owed? and extra 10% of your income? 20%?

Sounds good, but it is, of course, a silly non sequitur fallacy.

exactly - by showing the analogy, we are demonstrating the same about his business owner friend accepting Medicare

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[masterblaster72 0]

As long as Americans are glued to the television and not doing their homework by reading and researching to discern bullshit from reality, we may end up with yet another "third party" that has its collective head up its ass.

Also, any third party that is getting this much media coverage should immediately be brought to question. Libertarians, for example, have been around for decades. Where has the coverage of that party been in mainstream media over that time, at least in contrast to this relatively new Tea Party?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[rehmwa 2]

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Also, any third party that is getting this much media coverage should immediately be brought to question.

I don't believe the "Tea Party" stylizes themselves as a third political party like you are saying. "Party" comes from Boston Team Party (taxation without representation).

I believe, to be politically correct, one has to use their own definition. I think, mainly, they are disaffected fiscal conservatives, that are pissed off at the current republicans for, essentially, becoming pretty much exactly the same as the socially agenda driven high spending democrats.

I'd suspect, they want to affect one of the current parties (typically the Reps) to move away from social program driven hyper-spending and turn them to fiscal frugality - rather than start an entire new party.

As you said - the 3rd party agenda has so far crashed and burned with the Libertarians. Better to change of the parties than start a new one.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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As long as Americans are glued to the television and not doing their homework by reading and researching to discern bullshit from reality

an ironic statement if you really believe that movement is about establishing a new political party, BTW

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jdfreefly 1]

So where is the party that says, "Go ahead and keep all the money you've taken from me over the years, I will forgo the social security and medicare benefits you promised me in exchange for putting an end to a broken and unsustainable system"?

If you point it out to me, I will throw my support behind them tomorrow. I stopped expecting to see any of that money when I was 25. I'm fine with committing to this sacrifice now to stop throwing good money after bad.

The populace should have learned after Katrina that if you are expecting to be taken care of by the US government you better have a plan b.

Methane Freefly - got stink?