No, it's NOT OK

[billvon 3,095]

>The problem you cite was a creation of the government - a problem only
>24 years old.

It is indeed a problem. However, it solved a bigger one.

>Well done, government!

In that case - yes. I am glad my friends and family will not be turned away when they need emergency care, even if they may not have their insurance card on them.

[lawrocket 3]

So you are saying, then, that instances of patient dumping justify nationalization of all aspects of the health-care finance system?

How about government pays for emergency rooms and/or trauma? That would have been rational and less costly. Unless there was another point.

Require emergency treatment.
Don't fund it.
The loss is spread through everyone else to pay for those who couldnt/wouldnt pay.
Costs increase.
Blame insurance companies.
Take over everything.

How about this?
Require emergency treatment.
Fund it.
Don't take over everything else.

Doesn't that indicate that there is something else going on?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,131]

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Yes. Interestingly enough, this was not an issue until 1986, when the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) was passed as part of Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA).

EMTALA required hospitals that receive Medicare or Medicaid payments (which, considering that government is the dominant force in health care funding, is all of them except probably Shriners and VA) to treat all ER patients regardless of ability to pay. Oh, and the government decided not to fund it.

This is why more than half of ER visits are not compensated. The hospitals then make it up by charging higher amounts to those that DO pay.

Congress and Reagan created this problem. Rather than Congress say, "We'll make them treat you but we'll pay for it" they cause the payments to increase, meaning increased premiums, and then say the insurance companies and the medical industry are assholes and greedy, thus justifying a government takeover.

Create a big problem. Blame others. Then move in on the others.

It's what happened here. The problem you cite was a creation of the government - a problem only 24 years old.

Well done, government! Very well played.

So you're saying Reagan fucked up?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Yes. Interestingly enough, this was not an issue until 1986, when the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) was passed as part of Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA).

EMTALA required hospitals that receive Medicare or Medicaid payments (which, considering that government is the dominant force in health care funding, is all of them except probably Shriners and VA) to treat all ER patients regardless of ability to pay. Oh, and the government decided not to fund it.

This is why more than half of ER visits are not compensated. The hospitals then make it up by charging higher amounts to those that DO pay.

Congress and Reagan created this problem. Rather than Congress say, "We'll make them treat you but we'll pay for it" they cause the payments to increase, meaning increased premiums, and then say the insurance companies and the medical industry are assholes and greedy, thus justifying a government takeover.

Create a big problem. Blame others. Then move in on the others.

It's what happened here. The problem you cite was a creation of the government - a problem only 24 years old.

Well done, government! Very well played.

So you're saying Reagan fucked up?

You could twist a knot straight

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Yes, John. I do have the tendency to call it as I see it.

By the way, note that reconciliation was used for this, as well.

One thing I do note about Reagan - the guy and his staff were masterful and building bipartisanship. Seriously - as much as people complain about Reagan deficits, etc., Congress passes budgets. Congress controls purse strings. It's why I am not quick to crticize Obama, but I do hammer Congress early and often.

Reagan had a bully pulpit - "The Great Communicator." Where his staff was skilled was in helping build solid blocs. Check out the 1986 Tax Reform Act. A Reagan champion cause that was publicly lobbied for by Reagan, Senator Bill Bradley, and Representative (and Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee) Dan Rostenkowski (whose famous "Write Rosty" televised speech was part of the success).

Most of the biggest changes came during Reagan's second term. He built relationships, and had staff that intimately knew the inner workings of Congress. Reagan couldn't ever ram anything down Congress's throat - they were democrat his whole term (except for,I beliee, two years of a GOP senate).

I think Obama's flaw was Clinton's flaw - impatiently moving forward on a program without building the relationships and case for it first. Clinton learned and became a good President once checked by Congress. (Recall that it was Clinton and the perceived corruption that led to the first GOP Congress in, what, 40 years elected in 1994). Who know how this will work for our president.

But - Reagan often fucked up big. I call it that way, John. I don't look at labels. I look at what the person did.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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Yes, John. I do have the tendency to call it as I see it.

By the way, note that reconciliation was used for this, as well.

One thing I do note about Reagan - the guy and his staff were masterful and building bipartisanship. Seriously - as much as people complain about Reagan deficits, etc., Congress passes budgets. Congress controls purse strings. It's why I am not quick to crticize Obama, but I do hammer Congress early and often.

Reagan had a bully pulpit - "The Great Communicator." Where his staff was skilled was in helping build solid blocs. Check out the 1986 Tax Reform Act. A Reagan champion cause that was publicly lobbied for by Reagan, Senator Bill Bradley, and Representative (and Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee) Dan Rostenkowski (whose famous "Write Rosty" televised speech was part of the success).

Most of the biggest changes came during Reagan's second term. He built relationships, and had staff that intimately knew the inner workings of Congress. Reagan couldn't ever ram anything down Congress's throat - they were democrat his whole term (except for,I beliee, two years of a GOP senate).

I think Obama's flaw was Clinton's flaw - impatiently moving forward on a program without building the relationships and case for it first. Clinton learned and became a good President once checked by Congress. (Recall that it was Clinton and the perceived corruption that led to the first GOP Congress in, what, 40 years elected in 1994). Who know how this will work for our president.

But - Reagan often fucked up big. I call it that way, John. I don't look at labels. I look at what the person did.

Personally I just loved his whole policy on Iran and dealing under the table for the Contra's.. with that special little FUCK you to the congress with the illegal wars run by Ollie and company out of the white house.

His administration's support for the maniac in Baghdad was kinda special too

[ridestrong 1]

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I would imagine that Sarah Palin gets more than Hillary Clinton. It's what happens. It's still wrong.

How in the world would you come to that conclusion?
I would think its exactly the opposite.

Currently no one gives two shits about Hillary Clinton.... but you won't find any shortage of active Sarah Palin haters... and many truly HATE her.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[ridestrong 1]

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>The problem you cite was a creation of the government - a problem only
>24 years old.

It is indeed a problem. However, it solved a bigger one.

>Well done, government!

In that case - yes. I am glad my friends and family will not be turned away when they need emergency care, even if they may not have their insurance card on them.

No one currently gets turned away if they need emergency care, insurance or no insurance, homeless or not.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[billvon 3,095]

>No one currently gets turned away if they need emergency care,
>insurance or no insurance, homeless or not.

Yes, and that's a good thing. Well done, government.

[ridestrong 1]

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>No one currently gets turned away if they need emergency care,
>insurance or no insurance, homeless or not.

Yes, and that's a good thing. Well done, government.

Just had to be sure you didn't think otherwise.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[billvon 3,095]

>So you are saying, then, that instances of patient dumping justify
>nationalization of all aspects of the health-care finance system?

Not at all.

>How about government pays for emergency rooms and/or trauma?

An excellent idea, but if implemented alone, that would merely increase by many orders of magnitude the people who use the ER over an urgent care or primary doctor. We'd have to build an ER to replace every doctor's office in the US. So it's part of the solution but not an entire one.

>Require emergency treatment. Fund it. Don't take over everything else.

Like I said, a great start.

>Doesn't that indicate that there is something else going on?

?? There has to be; your proposal is incomplete.

[mnealtx 0]

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>The reality:
>We brought a coffin with us to represent the millions of Americans who will
>suffer from inadequate treatment and perish under Obamacare.

Perhaps next time you could bring a noose to represent all the millions of Americans who will be killed. Leave it hanging outside Eleanor Norton's house.

If it turns out like the last one, she'll have hung it out there herself to try and get some sympathy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[redlegphi 0]

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I Agree -

And it's not just threats to Dems - Our own Michelle Bachman gets daily threats for opposing the public option - but that seems ok here by many.

She doesn't seem to whine about it as much as the dems do though.

Every senator and congressman gets nasty crank calls and mail every day. To a certain extent, it unfortunately is par for the course, and comes with the territory. It's wrong no matter who does it, or who it's done to.

But is there a concerted effort to physically intimidate people on the Republican side of this? How many bricks were hurled through Republicans' windows? How many Republicans were targeted with maps with "crosshairs" on them? How many Republicans were spat upon? How many Republicans' families' homes had propane gas lines deliberately slashed? All that has happened to Democrats within the past few days.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/89059677.html

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2010/03/hurled_bricks_threats_surround.html

Only one has been shot at that I know of recently

***Cantor Says Campaign Office Was Shot At, Accuses Dems of Exploiting Threats


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/25/rep-cantors-richmond-campaign-office-shot-overnight/

I can't believe this hasn't been corrected yet. The police determined that the round shot "at" Cantor's office most likely was a round that was shot up into the air that just happened to come down through his office window. They know this because the round itself impacted about a foot inside the window (indicating it came down from a high angle). So either:
1) The round was shot at the window by a sniper hanging from a parachute (or perhaps a passing plane)
2) The round was shot by the world's greatest field artilleryman
3) Cantor was the "victim" of random chance

[mnealtx 0]

*reads point #2, looks at poster's handle*

Hmmmmmm.....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[redlegphi 0]

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*reads point #2, looks at poster's handle*

Hmmmmmm.....

I'm still in Iraq, so I've got an alibi. Also, I was almost certain that the joke would be about kallend executing a drive-by from his Mooney, so thank you for proving me wrong.

[mnealtx 0]

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*reads point #2, looks at poster's handle*

Hmmmmmm.....

I'm still in Iraq, so I've got an alibi. Also, I was almost certain that the joke would be about kallend executing a drive-by from his Mooney, so thank you for proving me wrong.

Nah... Cantor's in VA.

Stay safe over there, and thank you for your service.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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*reads point #2, looks at poster's handle*

Hmmmmmm.....

I'm still in Iraq, so I've got an alibi. Also, I was almost certain that the joke would be about kallend executing a drive-by from his Mooney, so thank you for proving me wrong.

Come home soon
And thank you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,131]

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*reads point #2, looks at poster's handle*

Hmmmmmm.....

I'm still in Iraq, so I've got an alibi. Also, I was almost certain that the joke would be about kallend executing a drive-by from his Mooney, so thank you for proving me wrong.

Nah... Cantor's in VA.

Stay safe over there, and thank you for your service.

I can get to VA without even refuelling. Not that I'd want to.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.