mnealtx 0 #26 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuote ..., not everyone appreciates the depth of those sources of information you use... Then simply look at the title of the thread, do a news search on violence and the health care bill, and then look at the attached pic that was posted on Palin's site. Decide for yourself if you think there's a problem. People in the public eye need to realize (or at least try to) the potential consequences of their actions. "I'm the only thing between you and the pitchforks" - Barack Obama http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/nyregion/20siege.html?_r=2 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4880068-503544.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/19/bailout-bonus-rage-hits-t_n_176977.html Executive names were released and bus tours driven past their houses - you'll forgive me if I don't share your angst over some several hundred mile radius circles on a map, I'm sure.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #27 March 25, 2010 Quote I really don't think the average joe is just that stupid or easily lead (except in California ) I wonder if that pic had bunnies and flowers instead of circles and tees if would there be any notable difference in the response of the public towards the congressmen in this debate. People that are incensed about the issue (there are those on both sides, and they are just fanatical enough to be threatening about it and they are doing it) are likely acting like assholes anyway. And 99% of them I'd bet never even saw the graphic. Edit: That graphics scares me about as much as declaring "War on Poverty" makes me worry about people seeing that statement as a call to throw grenades into poor neighborhoods. I'm not saying that her map was the reason for the recent attacks but it certainly could be seen as throwing fuel on a fire that she's been helping to build for over a year. I'd argue that Beck's rhetoric would likely be more related to the recent attacks. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation being thrown around along with a lot of very angry rhetoric. When you're speaking to a pitchfork carrying mob you have a choice as to how you handle the situation. So far, they've been dangerously irresponsible IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #28 March 25, 2010 Quote...you'll forgive me if I don't share your angst over some several hundred mile radius circles on a map, I'm sure. Don't worry Mike. I didn't expect you to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #29 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuote ..., not everyone appreciates the depth of those sources of information you use... Then simply look at the title of the thread, do a news search on violence and the health care bill, and then look at the attached pic that was posted on Palin's site. Decide for yourself if you think there's a problem. People in the public eye need to realize (or at least try to) the potential consequences of their actions. First of all let me state that I IN NO WAY SUPPORT VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND AGAINST OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES. I hope that is clea enough for everyone. That said, I agree with your statement, but it cuts both ways. This health care bill will greatly affect almost every single person in the country, some in a positive manner, some not. Those who make the laws and policies that govern our country have to be aware of the impact those laws and policies will have and cannot expect there to be no reaction. When you mess with peoples lives in a drastic manner, there will be a small number who take drastic actions in retaliation. To think people will lie down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #30 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuote...you'll forgive me if I don't share your angst over some several hundred mile radius circles on a map, I'm sure. Don't worry Mike. I didn't expect you to. Just as I didn't expect you to say anything about the part of the sentence you snipped out.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #31 March 25, 2010 >When you mess with peoples lives in a drastic manner, there will be a >small number who take drastic actions in retaliation. To think people will lie >down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. It is "ignorant" to expect that people not resort to violence against legislators they disagree with politically? When did we become Iraq? I must have missed that transition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 March 25, 2010 Quoteing that her map was the reason for the recent attacks but it certainly could be seen as throwing fuel on a fire that she's been helping to build for over a year. I'd argue that Beck's rhetoric would likely be more related to the recent attacks. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation being thrown around along with a lot of very angry rhetoric. When you're speaking to a pitchfork carrying mob you have a choice as to how you handle the situation. So far, they've been dangerously irresponsible IMO. sure - much like all the bankers a couple years ago getting mobbed in the streets and their kids being threatened at school etc I'll continue to contend that once you have a mob with pitchforks, anything you do, or don't do will suffice to set them off. But the blame will always lie with the guy with the sticks and stones, not the guy with the words. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #33 March 25, 2010 QuoteTo think people will lie down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. Let's call these things what they really are. This wasn't a call to protest; it was a call to violence, threats and intimidation, not just of politicians, but their families. Oh, and to state the obvious: those "circles and tees" on the map were not merely "radius circles"; they were crosshairs. As in rifle scopes. As in bang-bang, you're dead. And anyone who claims otherwise is either intellectually dishonest or obtuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #34 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteTo think people will lie down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. Let's call these things what they really are. This wasn't a call to protest; it was a call to violence, threats and intimidation, not just of politicians, but their families. Oh, and to state the obvious: those "circles and tees" on the map were not merely "radius circles"; they were crosshairs. As in rifle scopes. As in bang-bang, you're dead. And anyone who claims otherwise is either intellectually dishonest or obtuse. Then the bus tours pointing out the HOMES of the AIG execs were intel-gathering missions for planning violence against them, to state the obvious. Anyone who claims otherwise is either intellectually dishonest or obtuse.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #35 March 25, 2010 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #36 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteTo think people will lie down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. Let's call these things what they really are. This wasn't a call to protest; it was a call to violence, threats and intimidation, not just of politicians, but their families. Oh, and to state the obvious: those "circles and tees" on the map were not merely "radius circles"; they were crosshairs. As in rifle scopes. As in bang-bang, you're dead. And anyone who claims otherwise is either intellectually dishonest or obtuse. Then the bus tours pointing out the HOMES of the AIG execs were intel-gathering missions for planning violence against them, to state the obvious. Anyone who claims otherwise is either intellectually dishonest or obtuse. Actually, I'd agree with that. Protesting outside the offices of AIG - fine with me (within constitutional limits: no threats or intimidation tolerated). But those execs' homes and families should be left the hell alone. And I agree that publicly pointing out the location of their homes invites threats and intimidation directed against their homes and families. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #37 March 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote What a waste of oxygen.... Oh, c'mon...Lucky's not *that* bad...he *does* provide comic relief. Maybe so, but so does a three legged dog trying to hump a greased pig. That's on par..... I cannot believe nothing he has ever said had any logic/reason to it. I mean those I disagree with normally come up with some good points...... Lucky.... not so muchLife is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #38 March 25, 2010 QuoteOh, and to state the obvious: those "circles and tees" on the map were not merely "radius circles"; they were crosshairs. I personally think they they look like crosshairs. but I didn't do it to be obtuse - I wanted to be objective and only have a discussion about mob mentality and that we don't let off those guilty for their actions in lieu of going after "instigators" - two very different things that have their own level of culpability independent of the other and yes - I know of significant vandalism by Dems to citizens and reps in our area during periods of debate such as this health care one. I've seen people spit on as well coming back from Iraq, etc. This isn't about any one topic - it's about how our society is devolving in political terms to what we see in 3rd world countries even. look at how angry your (and many others) posts get sometimes - and I know you are pretty decent and funny guy. something about politics really flips some people - it's sad. Because it can be such a great source of mockery ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 March 25, 2010 Quotethey were crosshairs. As in rifle scopes. As in bang-bang, you're dead. JohnRich poll about whether it's a good idea or not to now ban map symbols 3 2 1 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #40 March 25, 2010 Quote http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=100000885306386#!/photo.php?pid=3655178&op=1&view=all&subj=373854973434&aid=-1&auser=0&oid=373854973434&id=24718773587 Nice job, Palin, advocating violence has paid off. Nice targets on these legislator's backs. Lucky, you need to spend more of your time working and less time sturring up shit. Now I must return to my self imposed banning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 March 25, 2010 Only one has been shot recently.... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/25/rep-cantors-richmond-campaign-office-shot-overnight/"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #42 March 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote What a waste of oxygen.... Oh, c'mon...Lucky's not *that* bad...he *does* provide comic relief. Maybe so, but so does a three legged dog trying to hump a greased pig. You country folk sure have some wierd shit goin on out there.. I spose you put that to banjo music too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #43 March 25, 2010 Quote I'll continue to contend that once you have a mob with pitchforks, anything you do, or don't do will suffice to set them off. But the blame will always lie with the guy with the sticks and stones, not the guy with the words. I'm going to disagree with this. Incitement to riot isn't protected speech, and can even be prosecuted as a crime (I think so, anyway). Quote >>When you mess with peoples lives in a drastic manner, there will be a >>small number who take drastic actions in retaliation. To think people will lie >>down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. >It is "ignorant" to expect that people not resort to violence against legislators they disagree with politically? When did we become Iraq? I must have missed that transition Perhaps not, but it is pretty ignorant to not expect it. Especially with an issue as controversial as this. Look at abortion as another example. Not expecting being different than expecting not."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #44 March 25, 2010 Quote Quote attached pic ........ People in the public eye need to realize (or at least try to) the potential consequences of their actions. I really don't think the average joe is just that stupid or easily lead (except in California ) I wonder if that pic had bunnies and flowers instead of circles and tees if would there be any notable difference in the response of the public towards the congressmen in this debate. People that are incensed about the issue (there are those on both sides, and they are just fanatical enough to be threatening about it and they are doing it) are likely acting like assholes anyway. And 99% of them I'd bet never even saw the graphic. Edit: That graphics scares me about as much as declaring "War on Poverty" makes me worry about people seeing that statement as a call to throw grenades into poor neighborhoods. The right wing nitwits on this forum prove that the average joe IS just that stupid and easily led. Too ignorant to vote for their own best interests and too stupid to educate themselves out of their ignorance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 March 25, 2010 QuoteI'm going to disagree with this. Incitement to riot isn't protected speech, and can even be prosecuted as a crime (I think so, anyway).Quote except that's not disagreement - it's a separate issue all its own incite to riot - that's one crime rioting - that's a different crime one doesn't excuse or "directly" cause the other - you can't give the rioters a pass by saying it's "ok because they were worked up by someone else" - the rioters still make their choices in the end. And usually, they are ready to make their choices long before someone gives an excuse to push them that last little bit. incite to riot really is wrong, but as far as actions are concerned, I don't place much weight to it when around adults. this is a real tangent here.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 March 25, 2010 QuoteThe right wing nitwits on this forum prove that the average joe IS just that stupid and easily led. Too ignorant to vote for their own best interests and too stupid to educate themselves out of their ignorance. I envy your very narrow and simply defined world where everybody is painted with the same brush and fits into neat little stereotypes. What do you think of Black people? How about Jews? Does everybody that drives a Honda also fit into a tidy little descriptions too? What about women? Teenagers? CrW dawgs? It must be comforting and secure. You need to leave the vitriol to Jeanne - she does it with class and humor and the occasional wry twist. Yours is a bit scary, though more pithy than Lucky's brand at least. there are some really good debators here on both the right and the left, and I can really appreciate their viewpoints . . . . then there's the partisan unreasoning noise in the background - I really wish there was a filter for that - but that's REALLY what this thread is all about - those that have joined those angry demographics ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #47 March 25, 2010 Quote>When you mess with peoples lives in a drastic manner, there will be a >small number who take drastic actions in retaliation. To think people will lie >down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. It is "ignorant" to expect that people not resort to violence against legislators they disagree with politically? When did we become Iraq? I must have missed that transition. To expect people not to resort to violence is hopeful and what I, as well as most people, want. To expect people to resort to violence is paranoid. To be surprised when a small number of radicals resort to violence is ignorant. People resort to violence for many different causes. Abortion, animal rights, gun rights, civil rights, etc. are all issues that some have chosen to express their views with violence in the USA. Does that mean we have become Iraq?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #48 March 25, 2010 Quotehttp://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=100000885306386#!/photo.php?pid=3655178&op=1&view=all&subj=373854973434&aid=-1&auser=0&oid=373854973434&id=24718773587 Nice job, Palin, advocating violence has paid off. Nice targets on these legislator's backs. You do know what is meant by targeting a seat, don't you? Your implication that Sarah wants people to do violence upon those people is just stupid beyond all belief.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,523 #49 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteI'm going to disagree with this. Incitement to riot isn't protected speech, and can even be prosecuted as a crime (I think so, anyway).Quote except that's not disagreement - it's a separate issue all its own incite to riot - that's one crime rioting - that's a different crime one doesn't excuse or "directly" cause the other - you can't give the rioters a pass by saying it's "ok because they were worked up by someone else" - the rioters still make their choices in the end. And usually, they are ready to make their choices long before someone gives an excuse to push them that last little bit. incite to riot really is wrong, but as far as actions are concerned, I don't place much weight to it when around adults. this is a real tangent here.... I read "But the blame will always lie with the guy with the sticks and stones, not the guy with the words" as saying that the person inciting the riot is blameless. If that's not what you meant, then I misunderstood. And being in a riotous (if that's a word) situation is a valid defense. It was successfully used by the guys who beat Reginald Denny during the 92 LA riots. It's not in the Wiki article below, but one of the defense's arguments was that they were acting as mob, and there wasn't individual responsibility. Wiki"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #50 March 25, 2010 Quote JohnRich poll about whether it's a good idea or not to now ban map symbols 3 2 1 Only if it were a British map. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rehmwa 2 #46 March 25, 2010 QuoteThe right wing nitwits on this forum prove that the average joe IS just that stupid and easily led. Too ignorant to vote for their own best interests and too stupid to educate themselves out of their ignorance. I envy your very narrow and simply defined world where everybody is painted with the same brush and fits into neat little stereotypes. What do you think of Black people? How about Jews? Does everybody that drives a Honda also fit into a tidy little descriptions too? What about women? Teenagers? CrW dawgs? It must be comforting and secure. You need to leave the vitriol to Jeanne - she does it with class and humor and the occasional wry twist. Yours is a bit scary, though more pithy than Lucky's brand at least. there are some really good debators here on both the right and the left, and I can really appreciate their viewpoints . . . . then there's the partisan unreasoning noise in the background - I really wish there was a filter for that - but that's REALLY what this thread is all about - those that have joined those angry demographics ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #47 March 25, 2010 Quote>When you mess with peoples lives in a drastic manner, there will be a >small number who take drastic actions in retaliation. To think people will lie >down and just accept whatever is written into law without protest is ignorant. It is "ignorant" to expect that people not resort to violence against legislators they disagree with politically? When did we become Iraq? I must have missed that transition. To expect people not to resort to violence is hopeful and what I, as well as most people, want. To expect people to resort to violence is paranoid. To be surprised when a small number of radicals resort to violence is ignorant. People resort to violence for many different causes. Abortion, animal rights, gun rights, civil rights, etc. are all issues that some have chosen to express their views with violence in the USA. Does that mean we have become Iraq?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #48 March 25, 2010 Quotehttp://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=100000885306386#!/photo.php?pid=3655178&op=1&view=all&subj=373854973434&aid=-1&auser=0&oid=373854973434&id=24718773587 Nice job, Palin, advocating violence has paid off. Nice targets on these legislator's backs. You do know what is meant by targeting a seat, don't you? Your implication that Sarah wants people to do violence upon those people is just stupid beyond all belief.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #49 March 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteI'm going to disagree with this. Incitement to riot isn't protected speech, and can even be prosecuted as a crime (I think so, anyway).Quote except that's not disagreement - it's a separate issue all its own incite to riot - that's one crime rioting - that's a different crime one doesn't excuse or "directly" cause the other - you can't give the rioters a pass by saying it's "ok because they were worked up by someone else" - the rioters still make their choices in the end. And usually, they are ready to make their choices long before someone gives an excuse to push them that last little bit. incite to riot really is wrong, but as far as actions are concerned, I don't place much weight to it when around adults. this is a real tangent here.... I read "But the blame will always lie with the guy with the sticks and stones, not the guy with the words" as saying that the person inciting the riot is blameless. If that's not what you meant, then I misunderstood. And being in a riotous (if that's a word) situation is a valid defense. It was successfully used by the guys who beat Reginald Denny during the 92 LA riots. It's not in the Wiki article below, but one of the defense's arguments was that they were acting as mob, and there wasn't individual responsibility. Wiki"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #50 March 25, 2010 Quote JohnRich poll about whether it's a good idea or not to now ban map symbols 3 2 1 Only if it were a British map. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
DanG 1 #50 March 25, 2010 Quote JohnRich poll about whether it's a good idea or not to now ban map symbols 3 2 1 Only if it were a British map. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
