airdvr 210 #26 March 22, 2010 We're gonna pay for reform and many times not even realize it. http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/22/news/economy/obama_proposal_payfors/index.htm?postversion=2010022216Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #27 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteI KNOW my insurance is going to increase. I KNOW because my insurance carrier already told us in a memo for our renewal citing "pending government legislation".. Scare tactic. Premiums were going up anyway, just like they have in every recent year. Actually, the last two years have been rather flat, and one year we went down.... Can't say I agree. I work for a small business - every single year I've been here we've switched carriers because each year they try a 17% rate increase. I totally expect premiums to rise again, but I don't believe the new bill will cause it. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #28 March 22, 2010 Quote I totally expect premiums to rise again, but I don't believe the new bill will cause it. Ian They would have increased with or without the bill... The question is, how much. I will let you know in a few weeks as our renewal is coming up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #29 March 22, 2010 QuoteWe're gonna pay for reform and many times not even realize it. http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/22/news/economy/obama_proposal_payfors/index.htm?postversion=2010022216 So how many states or nations that have instituted some kind of universal healthcare have decided it's a bad thing and subsequently eliminated it?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #30 March 22, 2010 QuoteSo how many states or nations that have instituted some kind of universal healthcare have decided it's a bad thing and subsequently eliminated it? "Once you have paid him the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #31 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo how many states or nations that have instituted some kind of universal healthcare have decided it's a bad thing and subsequently eliminated it? "Once you have paid him the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane" So you can't find any. OK.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #32 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo how many states or nations that have instituted some kind of universal healthcare have decided it's a bad thing and subsequently eliminated it? "Once you have paid him the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane" So you can't find any. OK. My 'kipple' illustrates why - not that I'd expect you to understand.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #33 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo how many states or nations that have instituted some kind of universal healthcare have decided it's a bad thing and subsequently eliminated it? "Once you have paid him the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane" So you can't find any. OK. My 'kipple' illustrates why. No, it is not analogous at all; there's no Dane. It's just a lame way of avoiding answering the question because you don't like the answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #34 March 22, 2010 QuoteThanks to the GOP, which managed to eliminate a public option which would have provided some competition. The TRUTH of the matter: QuoteSenate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus joined with two other Democrats to defeat proposals by members of their own party to create a government insurance program, handing a victory to the nation’s private insurers. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #35 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteThanks to the GOP, which managed to eliminate a public option which would have provided some competition. The TRUTH of the matter: QuoteSenate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus joined with two other Democrats to defeat proposals by members of their own party to create a government insurance program, handing a victory to the nation’s private insurers. So that's 3 votes. I wonder to which party the other "NAY" voters belonged. Could it be "The Party of No"? Oh, it's right there in your cite: "All the Republicans voted NO on each amendment."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #36 March 22, 2010 QuoteSo that's 3 votes. I see you corrected your screwup. QuoteI wonder to which party the other "NAY" voters belonged. Could it be "The Party of No"? The Party of "No, we aren't going to support this piece of shit bill", that's correct. QuoteOh, it's right there in your cite: "All the Republicans voted NO on each amendment." Maybe you can explain to the class how 10 Republicans could stop 13 Dems (that being the makeup of the Finance Committee) from passing public option if they had really wanted to.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #37 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo that's 3 votes. I see you corrected your screwup. QuoteI wonder to which party the other "NAY" voters belonged. Could it be "The Party of No"? The Party of "No, we aren't going to support this piece of shit bill", that's correct. QuoteOh, it's right there in your cite: "All the Republicans voted NO on each amendment." Maybe you can explain to the class how 10 Republicans could stop 13 Dems (that being the makeup of the Finance Committee) from passing public option if they had really wanted to. Is there some part of "All the Republicans voted NO on each amendment." that is hard for you to understand?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #38 March 22, 2010 someone hand me the popcorn-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #39 March 22, 2010 No more time to play, I have to take my wife to the opera... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #40 March 22, 2010 I think that my "healthcare" cost may drop, but not as much as my usable income does. It will be sort of like dropping road taxes by $50 a year but making the roads tollroads that it now costs me $200 a year to travel. But the taxes dropped.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #41 March 22, 2010 Ok. I got real numbers. 21% increase. We got the notice emailed to our broker today for the upcoming renewal. Thanks reform! The largest in our company history... 15% was the old record! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #42 March 22, 2010 QuoteOk. I got real numbers. 21% increase. We got the notice emailed to our broker today for the upcoming renewal. Thanks reform! The largest in our company history... 15% was the old record! People were seeing some pretty big increases a month ago as well, when it appeared that this legislation was dead in the water. In many cases, much more than 21%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #43 March 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo how many states or nations that have instituted some kind of universal healthcare have decided it's a bad thing and subsequently eliminated it? "Once you have paid him the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane" So you can't find any. OK. My 'kipple' illustrates why. No, it is not analogous at all; there's no Dane. It's just a lame way of avoiding answering the question because you don't like the answer. Other than prohibition, how many costly failure government programs/initiatives have they ever stopped? Once something is established, it's not likely to leave. War on drugs, No child left behind, etc. Prices were going to go up regardless of whether this bill was approved, but this bill gave them a reason to jack them up even more. Sort of like how gas prices went up before the hurricanes hit all those oil rigs in the Gulf.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #44 March 22, 2010 Quote Just wait till you find yourself in a similar position, paying for years and years and then find out you have pre-existing conditions allowing for corp executives to make BILLIONS off of YOUR painJust remember.. IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN TO YOU I'd rather deal with a company when I have a problem than a government agency. Companies tend to care more about their image and might be more likely to do the right thing if you drag them through enough mud with bad PR and lawsuits if needed. If one works for a large company they could enlist their help with the insurer. That's one of the things that make greedy business people/companies easy to deal with. Under threat of losing more money, they'll usually pay out. Power hungry government types OTOH... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #45 March 23, 2010 >I'd rather deal with a company when I have a problem than a government >agency. Then it's fortunate that this is the healthcare proposal that passed, since you'll still be dealing with your company under this plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #46 March 23, 2010 Quote As in the Western European and Canadian welfare states, doctors, hospitals and insurance companies will over time become public utilities. Government will set the cost-minded priorities and determine what kinds of treatment options patients are allowed to receive. Medicare's price controls will be exported to the remnants of the private sector. So a vote for ObamaCare is also a vote against the vitality of American capitalism. Business elites have mostly held their tongues, or calculated that they can later dump their health-care liabilities on the government. Yet ObamaCare will lead to much higher levels of taxation across society. The tax wedge—the share of labor costs that never reaches workers but instead goes straight to government—will start flying towards the 50% that prevails today in most of Europe. In America, without the same welfare state obligations, it hovers near 30%. That is dead on!!!!!!*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #47 March 23, 2010 transparency and all.... I didn't think it was needed-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #48 March 23, 2010 QuoteQuotethey cannot charge more to compensate; either compete or go out of business. They will charge more. Their operating expenses have gone up. What happens to cigarette prices when taxes increase? Do you think any of the tobacco CEOs lose a dime of compensation each time a new tobacco tax is implemented. I'm not comparing cigs to HC but it's an easy example. The price is always passed on to the consumer. Just like your jump ticket gets more expansive when crude goes up. Taxes are tacked on to all tabacco purchases, that's a ridiculous example. As for the jump ticket price, if a given DZ is able to operate at a lower price, the others can't complain their tickets cost more due to poor management, I'm sure the customers will understand. Besides, if premium costs go up for all when the non-insured get ins and have surgeries, then the medical industry will have to be price controlled. Eithe rway, this is gonna force the worms out of the system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #49 March 23, 2010 QuoteTaxes are tacked on to all tabacco purchases, that's a ridiculous example. As for the jump ticket price, if a given DZ is able to operate at a lower price, the others can't complain their tickets cost more due to poor management, I'm sure the customers will understand. Poor management? My point was that taxes are passed on to the consumer as an increase in price. I believe tanning salons (typically a small business) are being taxed an additional 10% effective immediately. This means that tanning rates will go up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #50 March 23, 2010 QuotePatch-together solutions are not really solutions. I'm not sure what you mean. To my knowledge the Public Option that you want is for people who can't afford health insurance. That already exists and is called Medicaid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
