Do people deserve a second chance

[Zep 0]

Lets say, because of some ones birth place, problems with social home life,
this person runs with a gang, has a criminal record (reformatory, prison)as a teenager.
Then gets his life togeather, moves away from his barrio, serves in the military
becomes a decent lawabiding citizen, clean for over 30 years, family man, loving father
Should his past keep catching up with him, or should the mistakes he made as a kid
be forgotten.

Gone fishing

[Lucky... 0]

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Lets say, because of some ones birth place, problems with social home life,
this person runs with a gang, has a criminal record (reformatory, prison)as a teenager.
Then gets his life togeather, moves away from his barrio, serves in the military
becomes a decent lawabiding citizen, clean for over 30 years, family man, loving father
Should his past keep catching up with him, or should the mistakes he made as a kid
be forgotten.

Are you asking for, "a friend?"

[AggieDave 6]

In what way is his past coming back up?

In that he is having trouble finding gainful employment in his law abiding ways or in that a new offense was committed and due to a criminal history the level of offense was escalated to a higher charge (as allowed by the state's law)?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skyrider 0]

As a reformed Outlaw, I can see many people wanting to change their ways, and stay straight!

As always , approach with caution! (I have less trust ion people that lived a perfectly clean life , many times they are more dishonest!

[AggieDave 6]

Clean can mean "not caught yet;" however, it is important to remember that there are honest-to-god good people out there. They're just trying to make their way the best they know how, with what they've got!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skyrider 0]

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Clean can mean "not caught yet;" however, it is important to remember that there are honest-to-god good people out there. They're just trying to make their way the best they know how, with what they've got!

Worth repeating!

[JohnRich 4]

Yes, they do.

But if the past comes up, then you've got to be prepared to explain why that is long in the past, and what you've done since to change your life, just as you've done here.

And if that's still not good enough for 'em, to hell with 'em.

Some things are hard for people to forgive, like murder or rape. Hopefully you're talking about more minor stuff, like youthful transgressions.

[rehmwa 2]

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because of some ones birth place, problems with social home life

'because of'

justification?
rationalization?
or just explanation.....

People should be judged by their actions. But people should also be prepared to account for their actions.

Leading a good life for years and years are actions that should be considered when someone is finally prepared to pay for the actions of their past.

Second chance doesn't mean a free pass for one's past. But it could mean a fair assessment based on their entire life.

Own your past - but own your present too. I don't see how anything can be forgotten.

And "should" is a futile thing to dwell on - "is" is real, "should" is whining

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I have less trust ion people that lived a perfectly clean life , many times they are more dishonest!

that sounds like rationalization again. Or, at a minimum, stereotyping (which really is just a form of laziness). One can only take each individual one at a time and look at what they've done.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

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Lets say, because of some ones birth place, problems with social home life,
this person runs with a gang, has a criminal record (reformatory, prison)as a teenager.
Then gets his life togeather, moves away from his barrio, serves in the military
becomes a decent lawabiding citizen, clean for over 30 years, family man, loving father
Should his past keep catching up with him, or should the mistakes he made as a kid
be forgotten.

You would think that they would get another chance but it is never the case.

I had a friend, Ken, one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He was a fishing buddy who was in his late 50's and had numerous health issues that made his life miserable most of the time. One of the few things that made him happy was to go out on the ocean fishing for salmon. For many years he would drive to Alaska for a month in the summer to do follow that which made him happy. a few years ago we took the boat up to Eucluelet on Vancouver Island to fish Barkley sound. WE had a fabulous time till his brother got tossed around and injured in some less than idea weather conditions out on the Swiftsure Bank. We came back in got the brother patched up in a local clinic. We moored the boat there and left to come south and brought him back down and Ken took him to Central Oregon.

Two Weeks later we headed back up to Canada and planned on fishing for a couple weeks. When we got to the border they did a background check on him and found out he had a record. Apparently Ken had a record none of us knew about. He had been one hell of a troubled young man with felony arrests for drunk and disorderly and assaults. He was one mean moFo even had an arrest for assaulting a cop while he was drunk in a bar fight. Now almost Forty years later, after living a very productive and peaceful life the Canadian Customs people decided to not allow this old man into Canada because he was SOOOOO Dangerous a felon.

We made a plan and he drove over to Neah Bay to wait for us while we went on up to Euclulet to get the boat. We brought the boat back and went out there and had a good couple weeks of fishing in spite of the money the Canadians lost for the lodging and food and fuel we would have spent there in that small town that relies on tourist dollars.

After that he could never go back up to Canada, and his trips to Alaska were over. Ken died two years after that... just a week after returning home from a fishing trip to the mouth of the Columbia River for the Bouy 10 season.

It is interesting to note though that he was told there was a process that the Canadians did have that if you paid enough money, they would declare you no longer a felon or a threat to them and you could then enter their crime free country where no young men ever get drunk or fight with others.

[wmw999 2,603]

Yep, got it there. I've known people like that. One has been an upstanding citizen for the last 30+ years all right. And he's willing to mention it to close friends -- it IS a part of his past.

If your friend cannot face it, then it's not in the past yet. Doesn't mean he has to tell everyone, but it is a piece of what made him who he is -- the good part of who he is, too.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nanook 1]

what causes his past to keep being brought up? Doesn't it take special circumstances to look past your 18th birthday?

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Gawain 0]

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Lets say, because of some ones birth place, problems with social home life,
this person runs with a gang, has a criminal record (reformatory, prison)as a teenager.
Then gets his life togeather, moves away from his barrio, serves in the military
becomes a decent lawabiding citizen, clean for over 30 years, family man, loving father
Should his past keep catching up with him, or should the mistakes he made as a kid
be forgotten.

Coming to terms with one's past means that the door is not shut on it. That will be good enough for some, not good enough for others. It is part of the consequences of our actions in life.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[chutem 0]

Some states call you an adult at less than 18. I have a simple misdemeanor from age 17 (27 years ago) in Michigan.

James

[RonD1120 62]

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As a reformed Outlaw, I can see many people wanting to change their ways, and stay straight!

As always , approach with caution! (I have less trust ion people that lived a perfectly clean life , many times they are more dishonest!

I'm standing with you on this one. I have found that the more education one has the more likely they are to cause grief, from the blind side.

Remember,

Quote

Ladies love outlaws like babies love stray dogs.
And ladies they touch babies like a banker touches gold,
But, outlaws they touch ladies somewhere deep down in their soul.

~Waylon Jennings song

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JohnRich 4]

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what causes his past to keep being brought up? Doesn't it take special circumstances to look past your 18th birthday?

If you commit a felony while an adult, that stays on your record FOR LIFE.

Every time you apply for a job, you have to tell them that on the job application, or risk getting fired later for lying about it.

[nanook 1]

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If you commit a felony while an adult, that stays on your record FOR LIFE.

I know that. If you commit a felony as an adult, you have to live with it. I am asking about looking back past the age of 18, when you are a child. Usually there are special circumstances that allow for looking into your childhood. i.e. top secret clearances and other sensitive positions.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[fasted3 0]

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If you commit a felony while an adult, that stays on your record FOR LIFE.

Are you sure? I've heard you can get at least misdemeanors cleared off your record just by asking. I'm wondering if there isn't a way to do that with felonies too. I've also heard that you can be pardoned for felonies, thus clearing your record. Not sure who can do it, but the president did it in a case I heard of. Not to argue, for a change, just trying to get educated.
Anyway, as for old stuff followed by years of no problems, I say forgive and forget. We all make mistakes, but not all of us get caught.

But what do I know?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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If you commit a felony while an adult, that stays on your record FOR LIFE.

Are you sure? I've heard you can get at least misdemeanors cleared off your record just by asking. I'm wondering if there isn't a way to do that with felonies too. I've also heard that you can be pardoned for felonies, thus clearing your record. Not sure who can do it, but the president did it in a case I heard of. Not to argue, for a change, just trying to get educated.
Anyway, as for old stuff followed by years of no problems, I say forgive and forget. We all make mistakes, but not all of us get caught.

Not that I'm aware of. A criminal record (even an arrest record) stays with you for life.
There are exceptions. There are "deferred prosecution" agreements where the conviction isn't on your public record, but it is still there. Judges and prosecutors can still access the "removed" conviction, and the arrest never goes away.

Pardons can be granted by the President and State Governors. The pardon doesn't remove it from your record, the conviction is still there, you just have the rights denied convicted felons restored. I know a couple guys that have had very old felonies pardoned so they could hunt again. It's a long, complicated and expensive process.

And regarding the OP, I'm all for giving someone a second chance.
Genuine remorse, honesty about the past, a clean record since "going straight" all merit forgiveness IMHO.

But not everyone feels the way I do.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Zep 0]

Are you asking for, "a friend?"

For someone I know and trust, an ex pat living here in Spain who I've known for about 15 years
I own a bar and get to hear all sorts of stories, well one night over a few drinks we were talking
about the circumstance that led us to move abroad. It turns out that the guy has a pretty wild pass
and was hounded by the police ( his words not mine) so he left the country.

As I say I've known this guy and his family for years, after thinking about it I've come to
the conclusion that to me it dosent matter, it's who he is now that matters, not who he was.

Gone fishing

[rehmwa 2]

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For someone I know and trust, an ex pat living here in Spain who I've known for about 15 years

really - did he direct movies?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wildWilly 0]

Two Weeks later we headed back up to Canada and planned on fishing for a couple weeks. When we got to the border they did a background check on him and found out he had a record. Apparently Ken had a record none of us knew about. He had been one hell of a troubled young man with felony arrests for drunk and disorderly and assaults. He was one mean moFo even had an arrest for assaulting a cop while he was drunk in a bar fight. Now almost Forty years later, after living a very productive and peaceful life the Canadian Customs people decided to not allow this old man into Canada because he was SOOOOO Dangerous a felon.


That works the same way for Canadians trying to enter the US.
I have a few friends who had checkered pasts but have been "clean"
for 20 + years. They were checked at the border and denied entry and then found that they had to apply for a pardon (read, pay lots of money) and then apply for a viza to enter the US. This can still be denied.

Willy

growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional.

[Amazon 7]

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Two Weeks later we headed back up to Canada and planned on fishing for a couple weeks. When we got to the border they did a background check on him and found out he had a record. Apparently Ken had a record none of us knew about. He had been one hell of a troubled young man with felony arrests for drunk and disorderly and assaults. He was one mean moFo even had an arrest for assaulting a cop while he was drunk in a bar fight. Now almost Forty years later, after living a very productive and peaceful life the Canadian Customs people decided to not allow this old man into Canada because he was SOOOOO Dangerous a felon.


That works the same way for Canadians trying to enter the US.
I have a few friends who had checkered pasts but have been "clean"
for 20 + years. They were checked at the border and denied entry and then found that they had to apply for a pardon (read, pay lots of money) and then apply for a viza to enter the US. This can still be denied.

Willy

Sounds like a nice scam doesn't it. Who are the real crooks afterall

[wmw999 2,603]

Based on my sample size of one, sounds like your friend considers you to be someone he trusts with a past that he acknowledges. That's good for both of you.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Zep 0]

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For someone I know and trust, an ex pat living here in Spain who I've known for about 15 years

really - did he direct movies?

Actually no, He's a financial adviser

Gone fishing