Is Thomas Jefferson a fictional character who doesn't belong in history books?

[billvon 3,116]

>Christmas, just like the name suggests, is where Christians are
>supposed to go to mas to celebrate the birth of Christ.

It's also a holiday non-Christians celebrate. Indeed, government employees are required to take a day off, Christian or not. I have several friends who are not Christian who nevertheless go to Christmas parties, buy each other gifts etc.

> Let us have our religion and our holidays.

No problem; let people celebrate as they choose, whatever their religion; let them put up nativity scenes, menorahs, posters, whatever they like (provided, of course, that the government does not favor one over the other.)

>This war on religion here in America is going to have a huge backlash

Only in your mind, since it doesn't exist (except for habitual victims who need an external reason for their problems with their own beliefs.)

>And yes, that sign was put there only for the reason of challenging
>Christmas.

That was indeed one of the reasons. Freedom's a bitch, eh?

[jakee 1,595]

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Yes, Christmas is in-your-face here in America, and that is because most Americans are christian. Let us have our religion and our holidays. Nobody is saying you can't have yours.

Nobody is saying you can't have yours.

But you're saying you want yours to have exclusive access to government property. Then when anyone questions that, or gets their view onto government property, you call it a war and say that people are trying to take away your right to believe. It's a massive double standard.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jgoose71 0]

Real or not, it is perceived as real to many people. Why do you think we have shit going on like was mentioned in the original post?

Yes, freedom is a bitch at times. But freedom of religion is a guaranteed right under the constitution and if you challenge that, you get backlash.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

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Yes, Christmas is in-your-face here in America, and that is because most Americans are christian. Let us have our religion and our holidays. Nobody is saying you can't have yours.

Nobody is saying you can't have yours.

But you're saying you want yours to have exclusive access to government property. Then when anyone questions that, or gets their view onto government property, you call it a war and say that people are trying to take away your right to believe. It's a massive double standard.

I think I addressed that in my post. Have some compassion for the culture, will ya?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Andy9o8 2]

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Real or not, it is perceived as real to many people

So what? See my post #50 for the reason why people perceive the myth as real. They're all fucking sheep. The only question is whether "fucking" is an adjective or a verb.

[billvon 3,116]

>Real or not, it is perceived as real to many people.

Yep. A great many people prefer to be victims; it gives them a ready excuse for any failings. Doesn't mean it's reality.

>Why do you think we have shit going on like was mentioned in the
>original post?

You mean your news story from a few posts back? Dude, that was a story about an ATHEIST display being stolen. In other words, it demonstrated a "war against atheists" far more than a "war against christians."

> But freedom of religion is a guaranteed right under the constitution and
>if you challenge that, you get backlash.

Yep, and once again, challenging such things is a long American tradition. And if that backlash is illegal (as it was in your post) you get arrested and imprisoned, and no one has to deal with you any more.

[Andy9o8 2]

See, Jakee? Now you're not compassionate for JGoose's culture. You bastard.

And if you waste the time to rebut him on that, shame on you.

[Remster 30]

You people are not helping.

I asked an honest question, not having the depth of historical knowledge of American history, being foreign and all, that could one day help me pass a citizenship test, and you wont tell me if Jefferson is real or not!

I guess I'll have to wait for the new books to see.

Remster

[jakee 1,595]

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Yes, freedom is a bitch at times. But freedom of religion is a guaranteed right under the constitution and if you challenge that, you get backlash.

But no-one is challenging it. The problem is the poor downtrodden Christian majority getting precious about the fact that they can't just run roughshod over everyone else anymore. Since they want to be more than equal, they think actual equality is the same as being oppressed. It isn't. Deal with it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,595]

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Yes, Christmas is in-your-face here in America, and that is because most Americans are christian. Let us have our religion and our holidays. Nobody is saying you can't have yours.

Nobody is saying you can't have yours.

But you're saying you want yours to have exclusive access to government property. Then when anyone questions that, or gets their view onto government property, you call it a war and say that people are trying to take away your right to believe. It's a massive double standard.

I think I addressed that in my post. Have some compassion for the culture, will ya?

I am compassionate.



(Andy: Hah!)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

The moral compass of the early Americans must have had a bent needle - or was it O.K to steal the land from the folks that were already there? and a bit of slaughter too
Oh and what about slavery?
Etc... Etc...

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[idrankwhat 0]

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You people are not helping.

I asked an honest question, not having the depth of historical knowledge of American history, being foreign and all, that could one day help me pass a citizenship test, and you wont tell me if Jefferson is real or not!

I guess I'll have to wait for the new books to see.

If you're taking your citizenship in Texas it will be easy.
Thomas Jefferson doesn't exit, nor does Ted Kennedy so forget them.
Just remember Ronald Reagan, Joe McCarthy, Jefferson Davis, and Newt Gingrich. If you get stuck on a question just remember that Jesus wrote the Constitution so if the answer might sully the image of the baby Jesus (and his stash of gold, frankincense and 50 cal ammunition) or of Israel or any form of taxation, then go with the opposite.

[jgoose71 0]

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See, Jakee? Now you're not compassionate for JGoose's culture. You bastard.

And if you waste the time to rebut him on that, shame on you.

So... next time I visit Europe, I guess it's OK to demand a cheese burger, wear a big "Bush Rules" t-shirt and be the so called ugly American. When visiting or moving to another country, you don't have to worry about the local populace at all.

Oh, wait a minute. When people visit Europe they have to comply with all European rules, but they are allowed to do what they want in the U.S.......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/04/AR2005110400183.html
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2007/11/29/why-we-dont-call-them-muslim-riots-in-paris-suburbs/

Talk about hypocrisy

And Shopshire, we are talking about the here and now. I say that because I'm trying to stay relevant. It's to easy to pick on Europe's history

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[masterrig 1]

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>they've saved the 'do you want fries with that' jobs for the folks getting \
>the textbooks with AGW stuff in them.

Nice try, but I'll let you start another thread if you want to get back into your religious views.

>05-06 graduation rate
>
>Texas: 72.5%
>California: 69.2%

Yep. In Texas there are fewer wrong answers.

"How do bacteria evolve drug resistance?"
CA student answer: "I don't know. Uh, God did it?"
Result: 0 on that question

TX student answer: "I don't know. Uh, God did it?"
Result: "Excellent, Jimmy! You got it!"

On the upside, they could advertise their schools to the more mentally challenged. "Come to Texas; you'll never be wrong!"

Is that why so many Californians are moving to Texas or because they've screwed-up California so bad they need a re-start?
You're talking about Texas schools... I've talked with several teachers over the recent years and they see the problem is with the TAKS tests and other required tests. The teachers complaints are that they can't teach anything but what is on these required tests. If, a required number of kids, through all grades, pass these tests, the school gets money. They fail... no money. Teachers can't really 'teach'.


Chuck

[christelsabine 1]

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See, Jakee? Now you're not compassionate for JGoose's culture. You bastard.

And if you waste the time to rebut him on that, shame on you.

So... next time I visit Europe, I guess it's OK to demand a cheese burger, wear a big "Bush Rules" t-shirt and be the so called ugly American. When visiting or moving to another country, you don't have to worry about the local populace at all.

Oh, wait a minute. When people visit Europe they have to comply with all European rules, but they are allowed to do what they want in the U.S.......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/04/AR2005110400183.html
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2007/11/29/why-we-dont-call-them-muslim-riots-in-paris-suburbs/

Talk about hypocrisy

And Shopshire, we are talking about the here and now. I say that because I'm trying to stay relevant. It's to easy to pick on Europe's history

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It's to easy to pick on Europe's history....

Yes, enjoy yourself. We're just too gentle to pick back on yours

Ask for a dozen cheeseburgers, wear a t-shirt with all Bushs on it as long as you like - you'll be welcome in Europe. Just follow our rules, and your world will be OK.



BTW:

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....but they are allowed to do what they want in the U.S.......

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....we are talking about the here and now.

... for what do you provide 5 and 3 y/o articles, then??

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[jgoose71 0]

3 to 5 years is a little closer to relevant current history than Shopshire's 200 year old flash back. At least most of us were alive and/or new someone in the decision making process.

Here in the US it would be considered unconstitutional to ban head scarves, yet they do it in Europe while telling me , in sarcastic tones mind you, to piss off, when I would like some consideration shown for the culture here in the US.

I've done a lot of traveling in my time. I have friends all over the world and I have always gone out of my way to respect and even learn something about every where I've been. It seems it's only OK to come to the U.S. though and try to screw it up as bad as what ever country you came from though.

Like I said, Hypocrisy.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jakee 1,595]

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So... next time I visit Europe, I guess it's OK to demand a cheese burger,

Yes. We do eat them over here. We've even got McDonalds and Burger King. Unbelievable, eh?

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wear a big "Bush Rules" t-shirt and be the so called ugly American.

Yes. You can do that too. You can pick any President, decide whether he either rules or sucks and put it on a T-shirt.

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Oh, wait a minute. When people visit Europe they have to comply with all European rules, but they are allowed to do what they want in the U.S.......

A) You're wrong. I'll let you work out why.

B) What does the conversation we were having have to do with people visiting other countries? This is barely even a tangent, it's completely unrelated.

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Talk about hypocrisy

Talk about random. Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,595]

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Here in the US it would be considered unconstitutional to ban head scarves, yet they do it in Europe while telling me , in sarcastic tones mind you, to piss off, when I would like some consideration shown for the culture here in the US.

Which French person told you to piss off?

You do know that Europe isn't a country, right?

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I've done a lot of traveling in my time. I have friends all over the world and I have always gone out of my way to respect and even learn something about every where I've been. It seems it's only OK to come to the U.S. though and try to screw it up as bad as what ever country you came from though.

Once again, when exactly did this become a conversation about immigrants and visitors?

Are you telling me that all native born Americans are Christians, and it's only the outsiders who are heathens?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[christelsabine 1]

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....
Here in the US it would be considered unconstitutional to ban head scarves, yet they do it in Europe while telling me , in sarcastic tones mind you, to piss off, when I would like some consideration shown for the culture here in the US.

I've done a lot of traveling in my time. I have friends all over the world and I have always gone out of my way to respect and even learn something about every where I've been. It seems it's only OK to come to the U.S. though and try to screw it up as bad as what ever country you came from though.
....

You're wrong in several points.

Head scarves are not banned here - at least in my country - except for teachers in schools, nursery nurse, churches and such. The rest of them may wear it wherever they want; they do. Like some colleagues in my bank, like my hairdresser etc.

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....shown for the culture here in the US.

Which one?

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....it's only OK to come to the U.S. though and try to screw it up as bad as what ever country you came from though.

What? How?

Have been in the US several times, hopefully I never screw up anyone

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[billvon 3,116]

>Is that why so many Californians are moving to Texas or because they've
>screwed-up California so bad they need a re-start?

Given that 2009 California SAT scores were higher than Texas SAT scores, I doubt it.

But that's beside the point. I assume you don't want future Texans to suffer by having science and history nudged out of the curriculum by religion and political ideology.

[masterrig 1]

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>Is that why so many Californians are moving to Texas or because they've
>screwed-up California so bad they need a re-start?

Given that 2009 California SAT scores were higher than Texas SAT scores, I doubt it.

But that's beside the point. I assume you don't want future Texans to suffer by having science and history nudged out of the curriculum by religion and political ideology.

They still teach science and history. I do know, they list the winners of science fairs and the like in our newspaper. It's like I said, teachers can't teach because of state required testing. A good friend of mine, who was on the Texas State School board, told me that. He said it's all about the money and teachers here are frustrated by it. The one's I've talked with have told me that most of their day is spent working for the TAKS tests. We can thank H. Ross Perot for that! There was a vote in one of the school systems recently, in regard to teaching a religion related program... it was voted down! The problem with our schools is the politicians sticking their noses into it. They want to know why, students do poorly. Well, they are the one's responsible for it... it's not the teachers. The students are the brunt.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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....
Here in the US it would be considered unconstitutional to ban head scarves, yet they do it in Europe while telling me , in sarcastic tones mind you, to piss off, when I would like some consideration shown for the culture here in the US.

I've done a lot of traveling in my time. I have friends all over the world and I have always gone out of my way to respect and even learn something about every where I've been. It seems it's only OK to come to the U.S. though and try to screw it up as bad as what ever country you came from though.
....

You're wrong in several points.

Head scarves are not banned here - at least in my country - except for teachers in schools, nursery nurse, churches and such. The rest of them may wear it wherever they want; they do. Like some colleagues in my bank, like my hairdresser etc.

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....shown for the culture here in the US.

Which one?

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....it's only OK to come to the U.S. though and try to screw it up as bad as what ever country you came from though.

What? How?

Have been in the US several times, hopefully I never screw up anyone

I doubt very much, that you could!


Chuck

[Southern_Man 0]

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Head scarves are not banned here - at least in my country - except for teachers in schools, nursery nurse, churches and such. The rest of them may wear it wherever they want; they do. Like some colleagues in my bank, like my hairdresser etc.

Wait, you go to a hairdress who keeps her head covered all the time?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[billvon 3,116]

>Wait, you go to a hairdress who keeps her head covered all the time?

Yep. Why is that strange? I work with a guy who does the same thing. He's a good engineer.

[pirana 0]

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So... next time I visit Europe, I guess it's OK to demand a cheese burger,

Yes. We do eat them over here. We've even got McDonalds and Burger King. Unbelievable, eh?

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wear a big "Bush Rules" t-shirt and be the so called ugly American.

Yes. You can do that too. You can pick any President, decide whether he either rules or sucks and put it on a T-shirt.

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Oh, wait a minute. When people visit Europe they have to comply with all European rules, but they are allowed to do what they want in the U.S.......

A) You're wrong. I'll let you work out why.

B) What does the conversation we were having have to do with people visiting other countries? This is barely even a tangent, it's completely unrelated.

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Talk about hypocrisy

Talk about random. Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

My deepest apologies for those particular exports. (The fast foods as well as Bush). The one weasels it's way into the lives of kids from lazy parents, using toys and cartoon characters, the other actually lost the election but stole the results.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley