Is Thomas Jefferson a fictional character who doesn't belong in history books?

[Remster 30]

Because biased polls are awesome.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=texas-messes-with-history-10-03-15

Remster

[billvon 3,111]

I don't see a problem with it, provided we exclude Texas-educated people from positions requiring an accurate understanding of the world - say, doctors, engineers, scientists and architects. Fortunately there are plenty of jobs in the retail, security, manufacturing and IT industries where elitist, secular, fact-based education is not required.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

You gotta think that sooner or later universities will stop admitting students who have not been educated.

[billvon 3,111]

>You gotta think that sooner or later universities will stop admitting
>students who have not been educated.

Or offer a Texas curriculum that avoids the harder stuff. Call it the Texas Liberal Arts Degree.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I don't see a problem with it, provided we exclude Texas-educated people from positions requiring an accurate understanding of the world - say, doctors, engineers, scientists and architects. Fortunately there are plenty of jobs in the retail, security, manufacturing and IT industries where elitist, secular, fact-based education is not required.

Sweet - they've saved the 'do you want fries with that' jobs for the folks getting the textbooks with AGW stuff in them.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>You gotta think that sooner or later universities will stop admitting
>students who have not been educated.

Or offer a Texas curriculum that avoids the harder stuff. Call it the Texas Liberal Arts Degree.

05-06 graduation rate

Texas: 72.5%
California: 69.2%

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Shotgun 1]

It sounds like it might be a problem for some outside of Texas too:

Quote

This stuff is important nationwide. Because Texas buys so many textbooks. So textbook publishers tailor their products so that they’ll be marketable in Texas. And many places around the country get stuck with the same books.

[shropshire 0]

Is this another case of the American-Taliban striking again?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,111]

>they've saved the 'do you want fries with that' jobs for the folks getting \
>the textbooks with AGW stuff in them.

Nice try, but I'll let you start another thread if you want to get back into your religious views.

>05-06 graduation rate
>
>Texas: 72.5%
>California: 69.2%

Yep. In Texas there are fewer wrong answers.

"How do bacteria evolve drug resistance?"
CA student answer: "I don't know. Uh, God did it?"
Result: 0 on that question

TX student answer: "I don't know. Uh, God did it?"
Result: "Excellent, Jimmy! You got it!"

On the upside, they could advertise their schools to the more mentally challenged. "Come to Texas; you'll never be wrong!"

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

>they've saved the 'do you want fries with that' jobs for the folks getting \
>the textbooks with AGW stuff in them.

Nice try, but I'll let you start another thread if you want to get back into your religious views.

Gimme that old-time religion!

Quote

What Have You Been Taught About Global Warming?
By KATHERINE SCHULTEN

Yesterday we posted a lesson on discussing global warming in the classroom. In today’s Times there is an article about how those opposed to teaching evolution are linking it to objections to teaching global warming as well. What and how have you been taught about global warming by your teachers? At home? How do you think schools, teachers and textbooks should address this topic? Why?
------
Students: Tell us how your teachers have addressed the issue of global warming. Does it conflict with what you have learned elsewhere? Do you think you have had enough “climate literacy” to make up your mind on this controversial issue? What do you think textbooks should include on the topic of climate change? Why?

Link

Quote

Reading, writing and . . . global warming?

A Silicon Valley lawmaker is gaining momentum with a bill that would require "climate change" to be among the science topics that all California public school students are taught.

The measure, by state Sen. Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, also would mandate that future science textbooks approved for California public schools include climate change.

Preach it, Brother Bill!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,111]

OK, Rhys.

[JohnRich 4]

It's simply amazing how quickly some people will jump to believe anything negative about religion.

What's even more ironic, is that these are the same people who so quickly dismiss anything from Fox news when Fox reports something negative about their own personal favorite topics. The Scientific American should be ashamed of themselves for publishing such a biased, un-researched piece of reporting. But it's out on the AP wire now, and all the lazy newspapers (and that's most of them) will just repeat what the AP says, without bothering to actually look for the truth.

Just because certain historical figures are not taught at every grade level in every year, doesn't mean that they aren't taught at all.

Here are some facts for you, straight from the Texas Education Agency:
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index4.aspx?id=8203

There's also this:

"The wide-ranging debate over what should be taught in history classes covered everything from non-controversial items to heavily discussed topics such as how the history of the Alamo should be taught and whether hip hop should be discussed in classrooms.

"A document containing the extensive revisions will be posted on the Texas Education Agency website and posted in the Texas register by mid-April. Once posted, the official 30-day public comment period will begin..."

Source: http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index4.aspx?id=8235

So you see, this is just the first step in the process, and there's still plenty of time to change anything.

Now all you religion bigots should go crawl back in your holes.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

OK, Rhys.

Looking in the mirror again, Bill?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Remster 30]

Quote

It's simply amazing how quickly some people will jump to believe anything negative about religion.

What's even more ironic, is that these are the same people who so quickly dismiss anything from Fox news when they report something negative about their own personal favorite topics.

Here are some facts for you, straight from the Texas Education Agency:
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index4.aspx?id=8203

Now all you religion bigots should go crawl back in your holes.

I never mentioned religion.

What is your position on the historical existence of Jefferson?

Remster

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

I never mentioned religion.

The news article to which you provided a link, did.

[Skyrad 0]

Slowly drifting in to a Christian Taliban lone star state

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[quade 4]

Quote

Slowly drifting in to a Christian Taliban lone star state

Slowly?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Remster 30]

Quote

Quote

I never mentioned religion.

The news article to which you provided a link, did.

I fail to see any mention of religion in the article from scientific american.

Oh, and what say you about Jefferson's existentialism?

Remster

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Is Thomas Jefferson a fictional character who doesn't belong in history books?

I didn't vote because neither Yes nor No reflects fact.
The Thomas Jefferson in most of the history books, especially the school textbooks, is a fictionalized version of a real person. The real person should be reported in the history books with intellectual honesty. That being said, what Texas is proposing to do is as intellectually dishonest as the fictionalized account.

Revisionist history is best remedied by restorative history, not by replacing it with alternative revisionist history.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

26 page PDF describing the changes to a Texas middle school social studies book:
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/teks/social/MS_TEKS_amended.pdf

Screen shot of a particularily poorly written section:
http://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/p-7-high-school-standards.jpg?w=529&h=263

Just wanted to post those, I might comment later tonight if I get some time when I am less busy

[billvon 3,111]

>It's simply amazing how quickly some people will jump to believe
>anything negative about religion.

This isn't anything negative about religion. Religion was never mentioned in that article, beyond Jefferson's stance on the separation of church and state (which is an historical issue.) If they wanted to teach that George Bush pulled off 9/11, the same issues would apply.

It's amazing how defensive people get when they think their religion is being questioned - and when someone criticizes a stupid decision their state makes. Blind obedience to religion OR government is not a great idea, IMO.

>Now all you religion bigots should go crawl back in your holes.

And all you professional victims should flex your fingers to prepare for this year's WAR ON CHRISTMAS. The Fighting 101st Keyboarders will never stop, never rest until the evil secular enemy is defeated, and Christmas is finally recognized by our government!

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I never mentioned religion.

The news article to which you provided a link, did.

I fail to see any mention of religion in the article from scientific american.

So you think that subjects like "creationism" and "church" aren't religious subjects?

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

>It's simply amazing how quickly some people will jump to believe
>anything negative about religion.

...It's amazing how defensive people get when they think their religion is being questioned - and when someone criticizes a stupid decision their state makes.

I'm an atheist, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But I detest bigotry, and those who jump to conclusions about an entire class of people based upon a single biased news editorial. One has only to peruse the list of topics in this forum to see how many people detest religious folks, despite the fact that the large majority of them are fine, friendly, upstanding citizens who respect the rights and beliefs of others.

Based upon this news story, you proposed to "exclude Texas-educated people from positions requiring an accurate understanding of the world - say, doctors, engineers, scientists and architects".

All because of a reference to Jefferson in one year's education, out of a 12-year program.

And since those same school books are also used in many other states, why didn't you also include the citizens of those many other states in your exclusion?

And of course, there are many well-respected doctors, engineers, scientists and architects who are also devoutly religious. But apparently according to you, they should all be fired from their jobs as incompetent. Do you propose that religion should be a disqualifying factor in being employed in those professions?

So who is worse here? Someone who believes in god and respects others, or those who don't believe in god and are bigoted against everyone who does?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I don't see a problem with it, provided we exclude Texas-educated people from positions requiring an accurate understanding of the world - say, doctors, engineers, scientists and architects. Fortunately there are plenty of jobs in the retail, security, manufacturing and IT industries where elitist, secular, fact-based education is not required.

You mean "American-educated people," because the text book companies maximize their profits by printing fewer editions. With Texas being a big place with one state standard for text books, it gets a lot of influence in terms of what's offered to the rest of us.

Statistics on who shares the same text books are hard to come by, although this puts it at 80% of the country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100315/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1253

Quote

The revised standards have far-reaching implications because Texas is a huge market leader in the school-textbook industry. The enormous print run for Texas textbooks leaves most districts in other states adopting the same course materials, so that the Texas School Board effectively spells out requirements for 80 percent of the nation's textbook market. That means, for instance, that schools in left-leaning states like Oregon and Vermont could soon be teaching from textbooks that are short on references to Ted Kennedy but long on references to conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly.

[pirana 0]

I could care less what their hidden (or not so hidden) agenda is; but if someone wants to marginalize Jeffreson, they are one sorry ass stupid mother fucking idiot. Hopefully this is just a stunt being played out by some fucktard individual, and will not come to pass. Very sorry for any kids and their families that might have to be subjected to such BS - wherever they live.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley