loumeinhart 0 #176 March 16, 2010 QuoteWow, this barter system sounds great for people who have things. (the rich) I'm surprised to see you so enamored with a system that leaves the poor shit out of luck with nothing to barter. and furthermore how the hell do we tax the rich? I guess we just walk into their homes and take 80% of their stuff. haha lmao Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #177 March 16, 2010 Quote Quote It isn't even a one time deal as once the legislation was looking like it would pass the majority would quickly move before it could enacted and enforced. move where - we're talking about 400 super rich here. they'll be easy to track down Out of the country to a non extradition country that would love to have just a fraction of their wealth.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #178 March 16, 2010 QuotePS: the USA spends an awful lot of money on their military and could likely cut back if they decided not to be the world police. In that regard there is no argument from me. Or charge for the protection services versus our current plan of giving financial aid and being the police.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #179 March 16, 2010 QuoteIn a global perspective anyone making over $20,000 per year is super rich. We should take away everything above $20k per year and distribute it to everyone else to make everything fair. +1 cruisemarketwatch.com says that there will be 18.4 million cruise passengers in 2010. I grew up thinking that someone who could afford a cruise vacation were at least well-off if not rich. 18.4 million is a lot of people to be taking cruises while the rest of the world is starving to death and being raped by warlords Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #180 March 16, 2010 because as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, legislation is written by lobbyists who are paid money to do so. This money comes from??? Corporations and the super rich.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #181 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteIn a global perspective anyone making over $20,000 per year is super rich. We should take away everything above $20k per year and distribute it to everyone else to make everything fair. +1 cruisemarketwatch.com says that there will be 18.4 million cruise passengers in 2010. I grew up thinking that someone who could afford a cruise vacation were at least well-off if not rich. 18.4 million is a lot of people to be taking cruises while the rest of the world is starving to death and being raped by warlords Wow - I never would have thought that there were THAT many people taking cruises per year.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #182 March 16, 2010 Quotebecause as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, legislation is written by lobbyists who are paid money to do so. This money comes from??? Corporations and the super rich. Absolutely. And they expect to be repaid, with interest. That's how you get from being "rich" to "super rich". You use your "free speech" to buy access to the brothel we call "Congress". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #183 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuotebecause as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, legislation is written by lobbyists who are paid money to do so. This money comes from??? Corporations and the super rich. Absolutely. And they expect to be repaid, with interest. That's how you get from being "rich" to "super rich". You use your "free speech" to buy access to the brothel we call "Congress". Yup...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #184 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteThere's also NATO. NATO? huh? ... NATO Countries and their annual military budgets include UK - $58B France - $44B Germany - $38B Italy - $33B Turkey - $31B Canada - $18B Spain - $14B Netherlands - $10B Greece - $7B Poland - $6B Norway - $5B etc. Quote You have not been paying attention to Afghanistan and who is doing the heavy lifting there. 1) USA 2) UK 3) Canada 4) there is no 4 ... maybe the Netherlands ... not really ... Currently: US - 47000 troops UK - 9500 troops Germany - 4415 troops France - 3750 troops Italy - 3150 troops Canada - 2830 troops etc. In the future: These sorts of things are world problems (no one wants terrorists feeling free to attack them) which shouldn't be paid for mostly by the US with lives and dollars. Quote NATO would not come to Canada's defense if (I don't know) the USA decided to invade and occupy Canada. Of course not. We spend more than the rest of the world combined on our military. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #185 March 16, 2010 Quote Currently: US - 47000 troops UK - 9500 troops Germany - 4415 troops France - 3750 troops Italy - 3150 troops Canada - 2830 troops etc. These sorts of things are world problems (no one wants terrorists feeling free to attack them) which shouldn't be paid for mostly by the US with lives and dollars. Your stats shown above do NOT show who is doing the fighting and who is doing the dying. Once again I reiterate ... who is doing the heavy lifting (ie: the fighting and dying) in Afghanistan? 1) USA 2) UK 3) Canada 4) there is no 4 ... maybe the Netherlands ... no not really ... The USA is more committed than any other country in Afghanistan, but don't buy into the American media propaganda that it is only the USA that is doing the heavy lifting. The UK and Canada have also entered the hornets nest. My point in bringing this all up is that all the other European NATO nations in Afghanistan do their best to stay out of the conflict. Occasionally they lose people because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But NATO is providing itself not to be a reliable alliance moving forward. Then again NATO was created to counteract the WARSAW Pact which unless Russia decides to stir up some of their own shit, they are no longer the threat they once were. The USA does not have to spend as much $$$ as they do on their military, we are in agreement there. But getting back to the topic at hand, despite what the Leftists here on DIZZY.COM think, the Ultra Rich are paying more tax than all other demographics combined. If the Leftist whiners from this thread think this is not enough, then what are they waiting for? Stop frigging whining and start acting. Why don't the Leftist whiners show up at the Ultra Rich's doors and tell them that they are there to seize assets. Who needs some cheese to go along with their whine? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #186 March 16, 2010 Quote Quote in a way a barter trade is a perfect trade. it's like a simple little equation. we both swap goods - there is no money needed and we both walk away immediately satisfied. Right. Except what if you don't have what I want. I need a pair of quality shades/goggles for the upcoming season. I have a stack of books, an old computer monitor, a car, and a dog. Which one should I trade for a new set of gatorz? Imagine the chaos when people walk down the street dragging everything they own shouting "Someone trade me a gallon of gas"!! right, barter is fine in a simple economy with say, a couple of hundred different types of good. any more than this and the trading is so slow, the haggling so long that the market is too inefficient stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #187 March 16, 2010 >Imagine the chaos when people walk down the street dragging everything >they own shouting "Someone trade me a gallon of gas"!! People would quickly start using written IOU's to avoid such a problem. These IOU's could be given to someone else if the first person had too many IOU's and not enough chickens (for example.) And voila! You'd have money again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #188 March 16, 2010 QuoteWhy don't the Leftist whiners show up at the Ultra Rich's doors and tell them that they are there to seize assets When the economy collapses or there is a catastrophe... that will happen and it will be bloody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #189 March 16, 2010 Quote >Imagine the chaos when people walk down the street dragging everything >they own shouting "Someone trade me a gallon of gas"!! People would quickly start using written IOU's to avoid such a problem. These IOU's could be given to someone else if the first person had too many IOU's and not enough chickens (for example.) And voila! You'd have money again. yep (but it's also amazing how much barter trading still exists after thousands of years of money)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #190 March 16, 2010 Quote Now what has to happen is currency would have to be printed to match the total amount of new assets in that economy. That currency represents the amount of money borrowed and created and goes back to the bank. The bank now has 110. when originally there was 100. what we have now is the start of a 'money wave'. 100 becomes 110. 110 becomes 130. 130 becomes 160. 160 becomes 200 (it's a bit like when the borg say 'you will be assimilated' - except in this case they would say 'you are being monetised')stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #191 March 16, 2010 >(but it's also amazing how much barter trading still exists after >thousands of years of money) It actually doesn't amaze me that much; money is just a more convenient form of barter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #192 March 16, 2010 QuoteIt actually doesn't amaze me that much; money is just a more convenient form of barter. and money is easier to tax. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #193 March 16, 2010 >and money is easier to tax. And store. All those chickens can make a racket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #194 March 16, 2010 Quote>and money is easier to tax. And store. All those chickens can make a racket. is it easier to tax the gold coin hidden under the bed or the land, cattle and chickens you own?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #195 March 16, 2010 >is it easier to tax the gold coin hidden under the bed or the land, cattle >and chickens you own? Well, if you are foolish enough not to hide your chickens under the bed, it would be a lot easier to tax them chickens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #196 March 16, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote remember this time was for hundreds of thousands of years - the much greater part of our civilised existance. barter trade grew between hunter gatherer groups that had a surplus of goods. seasonal proto 'markets' arose at special sites where more varieties of surplus goods were bartered. But with the beginning of central civilizations, irreversable technological thought and processes took place. We can't go back there, so the old way of doing business is obsolete and impossible. right, we can only go forwards. but we have to understand why money was created to attempt to understand where it is evolving to next in a way a barter trade is a perfect trade. it's like a simple little equation. we both swap goods - there is no money needed and we both walk away immediately satisfied. Wow, this barter system sounds great for people who have things. (the rich) I'm surprised to see you so enamored with a system that leaves the poor shit out of luck with nothing to barter. James now, after all this time in small, egalitarian, hunter gather groups using proto markets to barter limited surplus's we decide to settle down and start farming. suddenly we have huge surplus's, increasing population and an explosion in the variety of goods being produced. also, there is stuff worth nicking, so we finally get to see the rise of the warlord stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #197 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuote>and money is easier to tax. And store. All those chickens can make a racket. is it easier to tax the gold coin hidden under the bed or the land, cattle and chickens you own? It's easiest to tax database entries. For instance, new entries over $10,000 automatically get reported to the federal government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #198 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote>and money is easier to tax. And store. All those chickens can make a racket. is it easier to tax the gold coin hidden under the bed or the land, cattle and chickens you own? It's easiest to tax database entries. For instance, new entries over $10,000 automatically get reported to the federal government. so it should be easy to get at the billions of the super rich? (it's all on a databse somewhere)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #199 March 16, 2010 Quote . . . after all this time in small, egalitarian, hunter gather groups using proto markets to barter limited surplus's we decide to settle down and start farming. suddenly we have huge surplus's, increasing population and an explosion in the variety of goods being produced. also, there is stuff worth nicking, so we finally get to see the rise of the warlord I was wondering where you got your economics; now I'm wondering where you get your history. There was nothing "sudden" about huge agricultural surpluses. They began to occur as farming methods improved, which took place in fits and starts over several millenia. You are correct though in that the successes of early agriculrure were the foundation for civilization, the beginnings of commerce, and the founding of the first things we would eventually call states. Wrong about that leading to warloards though. They were not dependent on agriculture, or even on others that practiced agricultrure. They were just as happy to slaughter other nomadic foragers and herders as they were to slaughter city folk." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #200 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuote>and money is easier to tax. And store. All those chickens can make a racket. is it easier to tax the gold coin hidden under the bed or the land, cattle and chickens you own? Nope. The IRS can tax you on assumption of income if you can't produce other means of proof of income. I'm personally glad my money markets and my deposits do not shit all over the place._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
